American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Racer X]

On the TWU Fleet side, it's already concessionary.

Not sure what you are reading...as of now it is not consessionary. 2x pay, more vaca, more sick more pay, more holidays , better holiday pay, etc
If you are referring to shift trades, OT rules, and PT cap..... my opinion differs from yours on the use of the word concessionary.

 

[WeAAsles]

Not from what I read here.

So because we are entering LEGAL negotiations come September, we are all suddenly going to have a contract? C'mon WeAAz...
You, me, or anyone else does NOT know what will or won't happen.

As far as the RUMOR of movement on maintenance SCOPE, it is just that RUMOR....
If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would say the Association is all of a sudden putting out these rosy updates BECAUSE of the AMP effort.
And if I were a conspiracy theorist, I could say we got a TA BECAUSE of the AMP effort as well.

Metal please don’t bring up your AMP effort with me in regards to putting on pressure to our Negotiators because I do respect you and you will not like my answer at all.

And where did I say triggering a formal declaration to the Federal Government of intent would secure us agreements any faster than where we are at right now?

At this time the only thing Section 6 “MIGHT” do is bring in the Mediator (Probably Linda Pachula) who had already agreed to be a part of the talks anyway more often? So far I’ve never heard that she’s been a part of the talks any more than one sit in?

As far as M&R Scope how is it Rumor when the Association put out an update that their have been comprehensive talks (However they worded it) movement, etc?

You guys have/ had more issues that are more complicated than Fleet with your Line Maintenance, Overhaul, Backshops, Facilities, Automotive, Etc. We’re pretty much just one group. Fleet.

Believe what you want to believe of course but I believe that both the Association and the Company are continuing to move closer and closer. Slowly or not.

 

[NYer]

I truly feel bad for your predicament. I have felt it, TWICE! I don't want money grabbers to sabotage negotiations because they want it now! I've said before and I continue to say, no deal on concessions! You'll not get a second chance "somewhere down the road" to get this right there first time. Our company, along with every other company, will have down periods but is just the business cycle..... we always bounce back

That's why I've been saying for 4 years that the Association should have spent more time preparing for the negotiations and educating the Members as to the challenges of this process and better set expectations to avoid or minimize the current frustration.

The opposite happened as we were told on these very pages time and time again that we were almost done. When in fact we hadn't even reached the most difficult pieces.

There are two pieces left, with scope being the most challenging because of all the moving pieces.

Add to that the fact the APA and APFA have openers in 2019 and the pieces of the pie get smaller

That's not considering any moves in oil, the national economy or the global economy.

 

[NYer]

Not sure what you are reading...as of now it is not consessionary. 2x pay, more vaca, more sick more pay, more holidays , better holiday pay, etc
If you are referring to shift trades, OT rules, and PT cap..... my opinion differs from yours on the use of the word concessionary.

Uh-huh. Concessionary has one meaning.

Those items, Swaps, some OT language, the PT cap are concessions. The addition of several steps to reach top pay is also a concession.

 

[WeAAsles]

That's why I've been saying for 4 years that the Association should have spent more time preparing for the negotiations and educating the Members as to the challenges of this process and better set expectations to avoid or minimize the current frustration.

The opposite happened as we were told on these very pages time and time again that we were almost done. When in fact we hadn't even reached the most difficult pieces.

There are two pieces left, with scope being the most challenging because of all the moving pieces.

Add to that the fact the APA and APFA have openers in 2019 and the pieces of the pie get smaller

That's not considering any moves in oil, the national economy or the global economy.

You have continually attempted to spread falsities when all one has to do is a very quick and easy search. FAKE NEWS. And if people are frustrated it would be because there are people like you out there trying all they can to fan the flames of frustrations to suit your agenda. Your attempts to divide are not gaining any traction in the real World though.

TWU-IAM Association Moves Closer to Joint Contract With American
July 11, 2015
0 Comments


TWU-IAM Association Negotiating Committees with Association leadership at the Winpisinger Center for Negotiations Preparations.

The Mechanic & Related/Stores/MCT and Fleet Service TWU-IAM Association Negotiating Committees met for the first time this week at the IAM’s William W. Winpisinger Training Center in Hollywood, MD. The Contract Preparation Program was launched by TWU-IAM Association Chair and Vice-Chair, Sito Pantoja and Harry Lombardo, who pledged the full support of the Association to attain our goal of industry-best collective bargaining agreements.

Association negotiators broke out in separate Committee sessions and began contract preparations with great success. The Negotiating Committees shared their philosophies and histories, and gained a deeper understanding of each other’s contracts. The Committees then began to reconcile contract language separately and compared benefits from all contracts.

Both Negotiating Committees have come together as excellent working teams.

We are planning additional joint meetings to continue the reconciliation process so all groups can initiate joint contract negotiations with American Airlines. Our goal is to present contracts that reflect and address the memberships’ proposals and past sacrifices. Association members deserve nothing less.

To achieve this we all must show solidarity at all times.

Combining different contracts with different histories will be a monumental task for each Negotiating Committee. We will, however, achieve our goals together if we tell American Airlines with one loud and clear voice that we deserve the dignity and respect of a fair contract.

Click here to print and distribute the bulletin.

Fraternally,

Mechanic and Related/Stores Negotiations Committee:

Jason Best Mike Bush
Ken Coley John Coveny
Dale Danker Mark Huffman
Bennie Martino Gary Peterson
Larry Pike Sean Ryan
Jay Sleeman Mark Strength

Fleet Service Negotiations Committee:

Mark Baskett Mike Fairbanks
Pete Hogan Tim Hughes
Mike Mayes Steve Miller
Brian Oyer Pat Rezler
Art Risley 
 Andre Sutton
Rodney Walker Bill Wilson

Everything that’s needed is right here in this link if you go back to the dates you need. Other items can be found online in the separate TWU and IAM CBA’s

http://www.usaamerger.com/

 

[Racer X]

And I never said they should give up. But I think it is a pipe dream.

Metal, I didn’t say you did. All I’m saying is that Scope is most important and should be most important to all.

 

[MetalMover]

You have continually attempted to spread falsities when all one has to do is a very quick and easy search. FAKE NEWS.

TWU-IAM Association Moves Closer to Joint Contract With American
July 11, 2015
0 Comments


TWU-IAM Association Negotiating Committees with Association leadership at the Winpisinger Center for Negotiations Preparations.

The Mechanic & Related/Stores/MCT and Fleet Service TWU-IAM Association Negotiating Committees met for the first time this week at the IAM’s William W. Winpisinger Training Center in Hollywood, MD. The Contract Preparation Program was launched by TWU-IAM Association Chair and Vice-Chair, Sito Pantoja and Harry Lombardo, who pledged the full support of the Association to attain our goal of industry-best collective bargaining agreements.

Association negotiators broke out in separate Committee sessions and began contract preparations with great success. The Negotiating Committees shared their philosophies and histories, and gained a deeper understanding of each other’s contracts. The Committees then began to reconcile contract language separately and compared benefits from all contracts.

Both Negotiating Committees have come together as excellent working teams.

We are planning additional joint meetings to continue the reconciliation process so all groups can initiate joint contract negotiations with American Airlines. Our goal is to present contracts that reflect and address the memberships’ proposals and past sacrifices. Association members deserve nothing less.

To achieve this we all must show solidarity at all times.

Combining different contracts with different histories will be a monumental task for each Negotiating Committee. We will, however, achieve our goals together if we tell American Airlines with one loud and clear voice that we deserve the dignity and respect of a fair contract.

Click here to print and distribute the bulletin.

Fraternally,

Mechanic and Related/Stores Negotiations Committee:

Jason Best Mike Bush
Ken Coley John Coveny
Dale Danker Mark Huffman
Bennie Martino Gary Peterson
Larry Pike Sean Ryan
Jay Sleeman Mark Strength

Fleet Service Negotiations Committee:

Mark Baskett Mike Fairbanks
Pete Hogan Tim Hughes
Mike Mayes Steve Miller
Brian Oyer Pat Rezler
Art Risley 
 Andre Sutton
Rodney Walker Bill Wilson

What a fearsome looking bunch....We have been outmaneuvered and outfoxed by professionals on the other side of the table for decades.

 

[Racer X]

Uh-huh. Concessionary has one meaning.

Those items, Swaps, some OT language, the PT cap are concessions. The addition of several steps to reach top pay is also a concession.

Nope. Change isn’t necessarily concession. Change to pt language may effect some cities but if the percentages stay the same system wide it’s not concessionary. ( granted...DFW and MIA COULD be in for some changes due to current language for pt floors in those cities, but if system wide number is currently 40% and that stays at 40 %, it isn’t concessionary) Some current TWU cities ( non hubs) could actually benefit by getting more FT than current numbers. OT language as a whole is NO DOUBT an improvement... (again, change? Yes. A concession overall by value? No!). Swaps...just different again...not concessionary. (could be viewed as improved in some ways). Who said there were additions to the progression scale? That isn’t even agreed to yet. Like I said........

 

[MetalMover]

Metal please don’t bring up your AMP effort with me in regards to putting on pressure to our Negotiators because I do respect you and you will not like my answer at all.

And where did I say triggering a formal declaration to the Federal Government of intent would secure us agreements any faster than where we are at right now?

At this time the only thing Section 6 “MIGHT” do is bring in the Mediator (Probably Linda Pachula) who had already agreed to be a part of the talks anyway more often? So far I’ve never heard that she’s been a part of the talks any more than one sit in?

As far as M&R Scope how is it Rumor when the Association put out an update that their have been comprehensive talks (However they worded it) movement, etc?

You guys have/ had more issues that are more complicated than Fleet with your Line Maintenance, Overhaul, Backshops, Facilities, Automotive, Etc. We’re pretty much just one group. Fleet.

Believe what you want to believe of course but I believe that both the Association and the Company are continuing to move closer and closer. Slowly or not.

AMP is being talked about by the ASSociation. They have to understand the displeasure of the mechanics.
And here we are! FLEET being held up by M&R and M&R being held up by FLEET. This does neither of our groups any good. Not fair to either group.

 

[WeAAsles]

What a fearsome looking bunch....We have been outmaneuvered and outfoxed by professionals on the other side of the table for decades.

Excuse me? The Company is who we work for and the Company is the one who holds the checkbook. Of course we’re always going to be the one trying to get them to pay more. (I just bit my tongue on something I was writing here)

And I’m sorry but I don’t see today how what I and yes even you are being Compensated quantifies as being outmaneuver’d.

AMP is being talked about by the ASSociation. They have to understand the displeasure of the mechanics.
And here we are! FLEET being held up by M&R and M&R being held up by FLEET. This does neither of our groups any good. Not fair to either group.

Again out of respect for you I’m asking you again not to mention this AMP thing. You’re NOT going to like my response at all and why I bit my tongue on the last comment.

And neither group is being held up. BOTH are trying to support each other. Except for MIA many FSC’s were active in those Protests Nationwide which you know were completely focused on Maintenance.

And before the goofballs chime in again. Your talks are separate from ours.

 

[B737 driver]

What a fearsome looking bunch....We have been outmaneuvered and outfoxed by professionals on the other side of the table for decades.

Metal you are experiencing the same things we did. We would think we were almost there, and it would change from the company to what the Union wanted. Looks like we will not vote till Sept, 6 months after our AIP in April. If it fails nothing till 2019, year 7-maybe.

 

[Jester]

Of course if our Negotiators are able to negotiate a cost lower than 21% (Doesn’t necessarily mean 14%) the other Unionized workgroups are going to want to negotiate a lower cost as well.

Metal the Pilots negotiated a 16% 401k Contribution for themselves.

Hey here’s a great compromise I bet everyone can go for. Give us all a 16% 401k Contribution and I bet no one will have a problem going to the 21% Medical cost? Let’s argue for this instead then?

I have said many of those ideas months ago, especially when after Isom gave his pitch about how he has the same medical insurance as everyone else whereas LUS Fleet and MX were the outliers, and we should be all in this together as one Company and let's sing "Kumbaya" together (okay, I make-up the last point). You correctly pointed out that given Isom's sizable income the increase costs would not be a factor to him-- I would state in fact, he probably could even go without insurance as his annual millions are probably adequate.

Obviously, in terms of pay, various work groups will have different scales, but Isom's reasons we should have the same health insurance benefits as some egalitarian objective within our corporate "commune". Frankly, I see this as a shameless pitch, as where's the brotherly equality when benefits extend beyond health insurance and instead relate to 401k's? While I know you bristle with the concept of "must haves", as I stated months ago and I believe we are in agreement now, having everyone on the same LAA insurance will be mandatory, less other work groups demand their own negotiated health insurance deals.

Yes, if LUS (Association) will be forced to give-up its health insurance, then absolutely the Membership should be offer something very substantial in return, such as a 16% 401k contribution.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have said many of those ideas months ago, especially when after Isom gave his pitch about how he has the same medical insurance as everyone else whereas LUS Fleet and MX were the outliers, and we should be all in this together as one Company and let's sing "Kumbaya" together (okay, I make-up the last point). You correctly pointed out that given Isom's sizable income the increase costs would not be a factor to him-- I would state in fact, he probably could even go without insurance as his annual millions are probably adequate.

Obviously, in terms of pay, various work groups will have different scales, but Isom's reasons we should have the same health insurance benefits as some egalitarian objective within our corporate "commune". Frankly, I see this as a shameless pitch, as where's the brotherly equality when benefits extend beyond health insurance and instead relate to 401k's? While I know you bristle with the concept of "must haves", as I stated months ago and I believe we are in agreement now, having everyone on the same LAA insurance will be mandatory, less other work groups demand their own negotiated health insurance deals.

Yes, if LUS (Association) will be forced to give-up its health insurance, then absolutely the Membership should be offer something very substantial in return, such as a 16% 401k contribution.

Uh I’m sorry I think you misconstrued my last paragraph as being something other than completely sarcastic. I mean sure why not we can ask for anything but I don’t actually expect to capture a 16% contribution in this reality and to tell you the truth if at all possible I’d rather have that dough on the front end over the back anyway.

I’m going to continue on in the fight for better Medical until I am 100% sure that my Negotiators have chosen to abandon it.

And the funniest thing is how being single with no crazy debt personally the Medical financially is one of the smaller concerns for me.

Maybe I got a little Mike Quill in me?

 

[NYer]

Nope. Change isn’t necessarily concession. Change to pt language may effect some cities but if the percentages stay the same system wide it’s not concessionary. ( granted...DFW and MIA COULD be in for some changes due to current language for pt floors in those cities, but if system wide number is currently 40% and that stays at 40 %, it isn’t concessionary) Some current TWU cities ( non hubs) could actually benefit by getting more FT than current numbers. OT language as a whole is NO DOUBT an improvement... (again, change? Yes. A concession overall by value? No!). Swaps...just different again...not concessionary. (could be viewed as improved in some ways). Who said there were additions to the progression scale? That isn’t even agreed to yet. Like I said........

Currently, the TWU PT numbers equate to either 24% or 31% (depends how you do the math), so going to 40% is a concession.

OT language has some positives but overall, it's a concession for the TWU (especially in MIA).

Swaps are concessionary from the current process used by the TWU, but that's inevitable.

The TWU went from an 9 step scale to an 11 step scale with the Aug 2016 wage adjustment. Concessionary.

 

[WeAAsles]

Currently, the TWU PT numbers equate to either 24% or 31% (depends how you do the math), so going to 40% is a concession.

OT language has some positives but overall, it's a concession for the TWU (especially in MIA).

Swaps are concessionary from the current process used by the TWU, but that's inevitable.

The TWU went from an 9 step scale to an 11 step scale with the Aug 2016 wage adjustment. Concessionary.

Haven’t heard that the PT percentage has been agreed to yet? Maybe assume that when that’s agreed to it will be an improvement over both Contracts current language.

The OT change will be a concession for the FT TWU Member and a gain for the PT TWU Member. You do recognize I hope that you are supposed to be representing all MIA Members and not just those whose status mirrors your own.

Glad to read you finally came around on the Swap Shift language. And it’s only concessionary if we ever owned the language which TWU did not.

The wage scale progression is still under Negotiations. But yes with the wage adjustment it was a concession for the TWU side. And it will be a continued concession if it comes out in the JCBA. (The Association asked for a 5 year payscale BTW)