American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

BTW what I’ve heard is that right now the Company is not even discussing Medical until SCOPE has been finished. Which absolutely makes perfect sense.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I disagree on your comment IAM vs TWU deal breakers.
If you listen to IAM, they say that medical is one of our toughest fights. BUT SCOPE IS OUR MOST IMPORTANT FIGHT... everyone on the NC for IAM have stated this. They know it doesn’t matter what the medical cost is or what your rate of pay is, or your sick, vacation, etc etc if you DONT HAVE A JOB.
With that being said... That does not mean that medical is not a priority. Nor does it mean that we should give up on medical to secure scope.

look. Relax. Its all gamemanship. The appeal was denied. This wont go to section 6 as far as fleet. Due to amp, its also possible that Sito separates mx from sychricity with ramp. Lus current medical is gone. fsc will be voting before halloween, assuming the association takes 4-6 weeks in preparing info meetings, etc.

 

[WeAAsles]

look. Relax. Its all gamemanship. The appeal was denied. This wont go to section 6 as far as fleet. Due to amp, its also possible that Sito separates mx from sychricity with ramp. Lus current medical is gone. fsc will be voting before halloween, assuming the association takes 4-6 weeks in preparing info meetings, etc.

Association Vice chair Sito Pantoja is not the ultimate and exclusive decision maker for the TWU/IAM Association. Although from your writings you attempt to minimize our role, currently it’s the TWU who holds the Association Chair.

It’s also the TWU who has been on the forefront of fighting for and trying to raise public awareness regarding offshoring Aircraft Maintenance work throughout the process of the JCBA talks.

The IAM historically has not separated the groups in talks for one to gain a CBA while others haven’t reached that goalpost yet and I don’t suspect that will change under these circumstances either especially with TWU Gary Peterson seeming to be the point man for the M&R Groups.

 

[Bin Stretcher]

MetalMover and NYer.... Everyone I know on the LUS side feels the deal breaker is a concessionairy contract for anyone one the property is unacceptable! Its that simple. Is not us vs you, AA vs US, TWU vs IAM. I understand we won't get everything that was asked for but I certainly expect to, at a minimum, keep what we have and hope to increase upon that. It is my belief that is what the NC is trying to accomplish, despite all the negativity

 

[Tim Nelson]

t

Association Vice chair Sito Pantoja is not the ultimate and exclusive decision maker for the TWU/IAM Association. Although from your writings you attempt to minimize our role, currently it’s the TWU who holds the Association Chair.

It’s also the TWU who has been on the forefront of fighting for and trying to raise public awareness regarding offshoring Aircraft Maintenance work throughout the process of the JCBA talks.

The IAM historically has not separated the groups in talks for one to gain a CBA while others haven’t reached that goalpost yet and I don’t suspect that will change under these circumstances either especially with TWU Gary Peterson seeming to be the point man for the M&R Groups.

he iam has historically (at least 6 out of 7 times i went through it) separated. Only time we waited on eachother was 2014.

 

[NYer]

MetalMover and NYer.... Everyone I know on the LUS side feels the deal breaker is a concessionairy contract for anyone one the property is unacceptable! Its that simple. Is not us vs you, AA vs US, TWU vs IAM. I understand we won't get everything that was asked for but I certainly expect to, at a minimum, keep what we have and hope to increase upon that. It is my belief that is what the NC is trying to accomplish, despite all the negativity

On the TWU Fleet side, it's already concessionary.

 

[WeAAsles]

MetalMover and NYer.... Everyone I know on the LUS side feels the deal breaker is a concessionairy contract for anyone one the property is unacceptable! Its that simple. Is not us vs you, AA vs US, TWU vs IAM. I understand we won't get everything that was asked for but I certainly expect to, at a minimum, keep what we have and hope to increase upon that. It is my belief that is what the NC is trying to accomplish, despite all the negativity

Bin Stretcher you’re wasting your time engaging NYer. He has been staying here for quite awhile now that your Medical advantage is going to be lost. He gives no quarter on this issue and leaves no room for anything other than your costs “must” match what the rest of the Company pays PERIOD.

He HAS to be right and any and all evidence that at LUS workgroups HAVE had different costs are IGNORED.

Metal on the other hand is a reasonable fellow and doesn’t have any mental issues that I can surmise.

 

[WeAAsles]

On the TWU Fleet side, it's already concessionary.

Overall what has been negotiated on the whole and what is being offered at least economically is NOT concessionary.

It’s obvious that you HATE the OT change and the Swap Shift language but too bad and tough luck.

Had they went with (And the Company agreed) to go the TWU way on the OT that would have been a concession for the IAM PTers.

And BTW I LOVE the second day off Double Time where you don’t go to the end of the line to be called for second day.

That’s an improvement over what we had prior to 2003 and a DRAMATIC improvement over what we have today.

 

[MetalMover]

Metal the APA negotiates for the Pilots of AA
The APFA negotiates for the Flight Attendants of AA
The CWA/IBT Negotiates for the PSA of AA.

The TWU/ IAM Negotiates for the Ramp and M&R of AA.

Of course if our Negotiators are able to negotiate a cost lower than 21% (Doesn’t necessarily mean 14%) the other Unionized workgroups are going to want to negotiate a lower cost as well.

Metal the Pilots negotiated a 16% 401k Contribution for themselves. Do you think they had ANY concerns or thought that other groups would want to ask for the same thing from the Airline? C’mon of course not.

So why do we think our Negotiators should have that concern or be concerned that the Company will think that way?

Hey here’s a great compromise I bet everyone can go for. Give us all a 16% 401k Contribution and I bet no one will have a problem going to the 21% Medical cost? Let’s argue for this instead then?

I disagree on your comment IAM vs TWU deal breakers.
If you listen to IAM, they say that medical is one of our toughest fights. BUT SCOPE IS OUR MOST IMPORTANT FIGHT... everyone on the NC for IAM have stated this. They know it doesn’t matter what the medical cost is or what your rate of pay is, or your sick, vacation, etc etc if you DONT HAVE A JOB.
With that being said... That does not mean that medical is not a priority. Nor does it mean that we should give up on medical to secure scope.

Not from what I read here.

So what on the Section 6 talks. Again you can read what the process is for yourself but it basically says that it’s a formal declaration that the Company and the Union will enter into Negotiations.

Since even the Association has put out that there has been movement on Maintenance Scope I suspect by the time if or when they file the formality they’ll only be a few issues left to be concluded.

And some have speculated that the Company will start back at square one. Let’s get freakin real here. The Company has been under no legal obligation to Negotiate right now. Separately we’re all under Contracts. Section 6 is actually the format that requires good faith Negotiations.

I challenge anyone to find me any Legal language that requires the Company to reach JCBA’s directly after a merger?

So because we are entering LEGAL negotiations come September, we are all suddenly going to have a contract? C'mon WeAAz...
You, me, or anyone else does NOT know what will or won't happen.

As far as the RUMOR of movement on maintenance SCOPE, it is just that RUMOR....
If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would say the Association is all of a sudden putting out these rosy updates BECAUSE of the AMP effort.
And if I were a conspiracy theorist, I could say we got a TA BECAUSE of the AMP effort as well.

 

[MetalMover]

Bin Stretcher you’re wasting your time engaging NYer. He has been staying here for quite awhile now that your Medical advantage is going to be lost. He gives no quarter on this issue and leaves no room for anything other than your costs “must” match what the rest of the Company pays PERIOD.

He HAS to be right and any and all evidence that at LUS workgroups HAVE had different costs are IGNORED.

Metal on the other hand is a reasonable fellow and doesn’t have any mental issues that I can surmise.

 

[Racer X]

I’m sorry Racer but if you read the post directly above yours the response you just gave is moot.

NYer who is on the Negotiating Committee himself has stated that you will lose any and all Medical costs advantages. So you now need to re-evaluate what you might be interested in to maximize your return? Exchange. Concession.

NYer is the evident authority possible spokesman for the Company who has stated to him that you relenting on your Medical cost is a “must have” They have conveyed this to him as he has repeated this statement often.

Unfortunately NYer though has not been able to convey WHY the Company “must have” your Medical and I think if that were conveyed their desperation in this area, it may make your generosity to relent that much easier?

Maybe one day you will have the opportunity to sit with NYer and ask him directly in person?

You never know..... I just may take that opportunity.

 

[WeAAsles]

t

he iam has historically (at least 6 out of 7 times i went through it) separated. Only time we waited on eachother was 2014.

Perhaps I should have been more specific. Historically outside of concessionary Negotiations when both groups were in any process for gains.

You only first became organized in Fleet with a Union in 1995 and fairly quickly found yourselves in continuing givebacks tied to two Bankruptcies that almost put USAIRWAYS completely out of business.

Again though my comment still stands that the IAM and particularly Sito Pantoja is not in a sole Captains chair steering this ship. It’s a co chair. Brother Pantoja despite what you feel about the IAM on the whole is not in any Dictatorship position.

Perhaps the groups will separate at some point in time but as of yet I haven’t received any indication that’s in the plans?

 

[MetalMover]

The reason the pilots got the sweeter 401k contribution....contribution that is, NOT match...was because they lost their seven figure lump sump payout.
They were compensated somewhat for that loss...US on the other hand.......

 

[MetalMover]

I disagree on your comment IAM vs TWU deal breakers.
If you listen to IAM, they say that medical is one of our toughest fights. BUT SCOPE IS OUR MOST IMPORTANT FIGHT... everyone on the NC for IAM have stated this. They know it doesn’t matter what the medical cost is or what your rate of pay is, or your sick, vacation, etc etc if you DONT HAVE A JOB.
With that being said... That does not mean that medical is not a priority. Nor does it mean that we should give up on medical to secure scope.

And I never said they should give up. But I think it is a pipe dream.

 

[Bin Stretcher]

On the TWU Fleet side, it's already concessionary.

I truly feel bad for your predicament. I have felt it, TWICE! I don't want money grabbers to sabotage negotiations because they want it now! I've said before and I continue to say, no deal on concessions! You'll not get a second chance "somewhere down the road" to get this right there first time. Our company, along with every other company, will have down periods but is just the business cycle..... we always bounce back