American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[AANOTOK]

I wasn’t thinking about you with my comment actually. It was a generalization.

I’m really not as focused on you as you seem to believe. Sorry.

Again, another wonderful comment...I'll go ahead and finish my previous comment, you're such a Douchebag...No, I don't think your focused on me, but just yesterday we had that argument about no movement.You are untruthful at times as well (I will refrain from calling you a liar).

 

[AANOTOK]

The IAM giving up their good situation would be bad business. I respect that they are putting their members first . Do people really think AA is going to cave on the medical with all the other work groups in the LAA plan? That would be really bad business by AA. The dog of the group is really the TWU, who IMO made a bad business decision to agree to the Association. I recall when the TWU informed the membership about the Association thinking this sounds not good. It's like you had 3 aces in a game of poker and you fold and lose to a guy with a pair of 3's. I don't mean to slight the IAM, as I agree with their holding firm on the medical as a smart business practice. My opinion of the TWU has gone down quite a bit the past few years seeing their bumbling business practices.

I have said it numerous times Talos, if I were them, I would be doing the exact thing. And again as I stated, AA (let me be sure and put this out there for the spinners, IMO) will not give in either, so where does it go if that is indeed the case. There were so many of us on the TWU side who from day one saw the mess the Association would bring...and it hasn't disappointed.

 

[WeAAsles]

Again, another wonderful comment...I'll go ahead and finish my previous comment, you're such a Douchebag...No, I don't think your focused on me, but just yesterday we had that argument about no movement.You are untruthful at times as well (I will refrain from calling you a liar).

Ok here we go again I guess, sigh. Let me TRY to explain this to you once again. You see it’s psychologically impossible for me to have much feeling about you or what you write at all as I don’t know who the hell you are. It really is like having an argument against just “words” and not an actual Human being. (How I do think of many on here honestly)

You have me at a disadvantage and you take pleasure in weilding that as a weapon.

You also sent me a PM a few weeks ago saying that you were tired of arguing with me and were going to stop. I guess you too are untruthful.

 

[AANOTOK]

Sorry, your personality is one of someone who I just refuse to and can't tolerate. I surely don't surround myself with your kind Dave. If I solely base my opinion of you on this forum alone, I would say your Christmas list isn't very long, especially in the receiving department. I'll try and give anyone a chance, but you dude just make it impossible. Am I saying I'm better than you, no, just saying different personality wise and definitely one that I will/would always clash with. There you have it...Have the last word Dave and we move on.

 

[P. REZ]

I would agree with CB in several areas including we aren't rigid, we won't get 100% of everything we want, the offer from the company to date is poor, we haven't been done and are still negotiating, and the likelihood of section 6 is 50/50 IMO.

P. Rez

 

[WeAAsles]

Sorry, your personality is one of someone who I just refuse to and can't tolerate. I surely don't surround myself with your kind Dave. If I solely base my opinion of you on this forum alone, I would say your Christmas list isn't very long, especially in the receiving department. I'll try and give anyone a chance, but you dude just make it impossible. Am I saying I'm better than you, no, just saying different personality wise and definitely one that I will/would always clash with. There you have it...Have the last word Dave and we move on.

I’m sorry Sir but from your writing alone TO ME you come across as desperate, pushy and annoying. I’m sure it’s just your age and the fact that this is your last Contract and you want to maximize your retirement cushion but you’re just too un “ZEN” like for my tastes.

And you’re very repetitive and needing of control as well.

Nothing personal JMO. Maybe you should try to ignore me like NYer does?

 

[ALUS78]

I would agree with CB in several areas including we aren't rigid, we won't get 100% of everything we want, the offer from the company to date is poor, we haven't been done and are still negotiating, and the likelihood of section 6 is 50/50 IMO.

P. Rez

PREZ you and CB are LUS like me, you should know that section 6 might mean we are debating on this forum 5 years from now without a contract
If Parker was willing to let LUS and LAW pilots go without ever getting a contact the Association wouldn't even be mentioned in executive management's daily briefings. I honestly dont see what leverage we have

 

[ALUS78]

Tim do you think during negotiations the company ever brought up the cities they could close or the 175 work they could take away?

 

[Kev3188]

WHY do I want to curry any favor with the IAM GL?

You tell me.

The IAM giving up their good situation would be bad business. I respect that they are putting their members first.

Exactly. That’s exactly what any union should be doing.

 

[MetalMover]

The IAM giving up their good situation would be bad business. I respect that they are putting their members first . Do people really think AA is going to cave on the medical with all the other work groups in the LAA plan? That would be really bad business by AA. The dog of the group is really the TWU, who IMO made a bad business decision to agree to the Association. I recall when the TWU informed the membership about the Association thinking this sounds not good. It's like you had 3 aces in a game of poker and you fold and lose to a guy with a pair of 3's. I don't mean to slight the IAM, as I agree with their holding firm on the medical as a smart business practice. My opinion of the TWU has gone down quite a bit the past few years seeing their bumbling business practices.

I have said it numerous times Talos, if I were them, I would be doing the exact thing. And again as I stated, AA (let me be sure and put this out there for the spinners, IMO) will not give in either, so where does it go if that is indeed the case. There were so many of us on the TWU side who from day one saw the mess the Association would bring...and it hasn't disappointed.

If AA were to capitulate on the medical and give ALL TWU members the LUS medical, then the PILOTS and F/A's would want it! Then the AGENTS...Then EVERYBODY else in the company will want it...Does anyone really believe the company is willing to to ACCEPT an increase of that magnitude so willingly? And before anybody responds with "Well they are making record profits"........well as many are aware, fuel and labor costs are already being cited as responsible for hits on earnings....
I am not saying I blindly agree with the "warnings".....But LUS medical for ALL would be quite an increase in costs.
Does anyone truly believe we are going to get it?
I would like it to happen......but reality usually sets in.
Keep in mind, the boys and girls at the top answer to a board of directors....

Also....If we go to mediation....Guess what has the better chance of survival?

 

[B737 driver]

I have said it numerous times Talos, if I were them, I would be doing the exact thing. And again as I stated, AA (let me be sure and put this out there for the spinners, IMO) will not give in either, so where does it go if that is indeed the case. There were so many of us on the TWU side who from day one saw the mess the Association would bring...and it hasn't disappointed.

No one wants to pay more for health care, and I am sure they want to get something for it. They will hold on as long as they can.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim do you think during negotiations the company ever brought up the cities they could close or the 175 work they could take away?

Yes but only to the executive committee.
Likewise, Sito brought up B stations.
I know hub workers dont like B stations which may receive less wage and more flex scope/scheduling but we have boatloads of workers at ord who would bid back home if they could.

At any rate, I see a 0% chance at section 6 unless Sito keeps us with mx (unlikely). Our negotiations are done. Expect an offer or ta to come out prior to negotiations in section 6. It wont have current lus health but for members like me with only single insurance its only about $50 extra.
I fought for lus health but those that have family insurance chose to make me the bad guy. Hell, i stood up for them and part time but they laughed so im washing my hands and standing down now. Good luck cuz nobody else was on their side.

im focusing on getting a new union on other properties. The ass served its purpose here by protecting my seniority and getting us a ratification. The twu should just force an election afterwards but it wont. So much ignorance on ramp, most enjoy being ignorant on their pension and health. Not worth my time.

 

[MetalMover]

Yes but only to the executive committee.
Likewise, Sito brought up B stations.
I know hub workers dont like B stations which may receive less wage and more flex scope/scheduling but we have boatloads of workers at ord who would bid back home if they could.

At any rate, I see a 0% chance at section 6 unless Sito keeps us with mx (unlikely). Our negotiations are done. Expect an offer or ta to come out prior to negotiations in section 6. It wont have current lus health but for members like me with only single insurance its only about $50 extra.

Interesting.....

 

[WeAAsles]

If AA were to capitulate on the medical and give ALL TWU members the LUS medical, then the PILOTS and F/A's would want it! Then the AGENTS...Then EVERYBODY else in the company will want it...Does anyone really believe the company is willing to to ACCEPT an increase of that magnitude so willingly? And before anybody responds with "Well they are making record profits"........well as many are aware, fuel and labor costs are already being cited as responsible for hits on earnings....
I am not saying I blindly agree with the "warnings".....But LUS medical for ALL would be quite an increase in costs.
Does anyone truly believe we are going to get it?
I would like it to happen......but reality usually sets in.
Keep in mind, the boys and girls at the top answer to a board of directors....

Also....If we go to mediation....Guess what has the better chance of survival?

Metal I can’t understand the “obsession” posters here have with what the IAM pay for Medical costs? It’s really NUTS how many seem to be trying to convince them to not even try to negotiate the issue??????

Look I HATE all the repetitiveness on this site but this one doesn’t seem to get through so I have to try again. (I get through on FB with this)

One IAM plan cost they pay around 14% of the total cost the airline claims (Listen to P. Rez if he covers this again)

We pay 21% for Everything. We ONLY went up to 21% because of the Bankruptcy. In 2012 we were paying 18%

The TWU/IAM Association negotiates for US, not anyone else at AA.

IAM kept that lower expense for years while others paid higher. Pilots, FA’s and Agents.

Doug Parker again reiterated that they are working towards AA earning 5 BILLION per YEAR in profit. Let’s stop talking about competing for sh*tty Medical shall we.

American Airlines has returned 12 BILLION to shareholders in the last 5 years.

American Airlines can afford both good contracts and good medical. Don’t let them tell you otherwise.

And SCOPE is a much bigger issue than what we might or might not pay for Medical but this board isn’t much focused on that.

 

[MetalMover]

Metal I can’t understand the “obsession” posters here have with what the IAM pay for Medical costs? It’s really NUTS how many seem to be trying to convince them to not even try to negotiate the issue??????

Look I HATE all the repetitiveness on this site but this one doesn’t seem to get through so I have to try again. (I get through on FB with this)

One IAM plan cost they pay around 14% of the total cost the airline claims (Listen to P. Rez if he covers this again)

We pay 21% for Everything. We ONLY went up to 21% because of the Bankruptcy. In 2012 we were paying 18%

The TWU/IAM Association negotiates for US, not anyone else at AA.

IAM kept that lower expense for years while others paid higher. Pilots, FA’s and Agents.

Doug Parker again reiterated that they are working towards AA earning 5 BILLION per YEAR in profit. Let’s stop talking about competing for sh*tty Medical shall we.

American Airlines has returned 12 BILLION to shareholders in the last 5 years.

American Airlines can afford both good contracts and good medical. Don’t let them tell you otherwise.

And SCOPE is a much bigger issue than what we might or might not pay for Medical but this board isn’t much focused on that.

Show me more than a couple of posts here where a LUS poster has NOT mentioned medical as his or her's main issue.
I will say this again and again...for the lUS side, medical is the deal breaker...For the TWU it is scope......
As far as for me believing or NOT believing the communications regarding fuel and labor costs, it does not matter what you or I think..It is what Wall St. thinks....
I would think you of all people, WeAAz would not be naive enough to expect that the company will give us EVERYTHING we desire at WHATEVER cost to their bottom line. I am fully aware of their profits...
All I am saying is that I am realistic enough to think it is not that cut and dry.

Would you rather they give us all we want and lay off thousands to pay for it?
Isn't that the same as current union members selling out the unborn in a way?