American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

I do not believe member's feelings towards the ASSociation is a reason negotiations are where they are now.
Sharing two unions with different goals is the reason negotiations are where they are.

From the very beginning this negotiation was going to be drawn out. We're talking about negotiating over 500 pages of language with multiple CBA's. Add to that we also have to consider changes the Company wants to make and do that over several different groups just within the TWU.

To think this was going to be easy or quick is just a product of fantasy or naiveté.

The biggest factor, to me, was not having the proper expectations set from the beginning. The generic updates giving the impression nothing is happening didn't help in giving a better picture of the actual progress being made and just seemed nothing was happening.

 

[AANOTOK]

From the very beginning this negotiation was going to be drawn out. We're talking about negotiating over 500 pages of language with multiple CBA's. Add to that we also have to consider changes the Company wants to make and do that over several different groups just within the TWU.

To think this was going to be easy or quick is just a product of fantasy or naiveté.

The biggest factor, to me, was not having the proper expectations set from the beginning. The generic updates giving the impression nothing is happening didn't help in giving a better picture of the actual progress being made and just seemed nothing was happening.

You forgot to mention the lack of preparation or the delay of you’ve mentioned in the past.

 

[WeAAsles]

I do not believe member's feelings towards the ASSociation is a reason negotiations are where they are now.
Sharing two unions with different goals is the reason negotiations are where they are.

I’m sorry Metal and I promise I’m not being facetious here but I could have sworn that the two Unions through the Association (Partnership) had the same goals? According to the Association updates it still appears that way to me.

Here is their original proposals and I don’t think anything has really deviated since then?

http://www.usaamerger.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Association-Positions-Proposal-Document.pdf

 

[NYer]

You forgot to mention the lack of preparation or the delay of you’ve mentioned in the past.

I also believe that's a factor.

 

[MetalMover]

From the very beginning this negotiation was going to be drawn out. We're talking about negotiating over 500 pages of language with multiple CBA's. Add to that we also have to consider changes the Company wants to make and do that over several different groups just within the TWU.

To think this was going to be easy or quick is just a product of fantasy or naiveté.

The biggest factor, to me, was not having the proper expectations set from the beginning. The generic updates giving the impression nothing is happening didn't help in giving a better picture of the actual progress being made and just seemed nothing was happening.

Negotiations are cumbersome enough when representing a multitude of work groups. Now add to the mix another union with their own issues and ways of operating and you have the main reason negotiations are taking as long as it is.

 

[MetalMover]

I’m sorry Metal and I promise I’m not being facetious here but I could have sworn that the two Unions through the Association (Partnership) had the same goals? According to the Association updates it still appears that way to me.

Here is their original proposals and I don’t think anything has really deviated since then?

http://www.usaamerger.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Association-Positions-Proposal-Document.pdf

By goals, I mean it is mostly about medical for the LUS side and scope for the LAA side. Keep in mind the LUS side already has a higher outsourcing percentage.
And I am only referring to maintenance outsourcing here.

 

[NYer]

Negotiations are cumbersome enough when representing a multitude of work groups. Now add to the mix another union with their own issues and ways of operating and you have the main reason negotiations are taking as long as it is.

Don't agree. The biggest factor would be what the Company wants and if the Scope issues are as reported then we'd be arguing most of the same things that are currently an issue

We focus on the TWU and the IAM but it's the Company that wants modifications that either or both unions don't want to give up. That would still be true whether it is the TWU, IAM, AMFA, AMP of the Association.

I'll put it this way, if all the IAM issues were resolved the TWU would still be at the table arguing Scope and other things. It's not like our issues are resolved and we waiting for someone else.

 

[ALUS78]

From the very beginning this negotiation was going to be drawn out. We're talking about negotiating over 500 pages of language with multiple CBA's. Add to that we also have to consider changes the Company wants to make and do that over several different groups just within the TWU.

To think this was going to be easy or quick is just a product of fantasy or naiveté.

The biggest factor, to me, was not having the proper expectations set from the beginning. The generic updates giving the impression nothing is happening didn't help in giving a better picture of the actual progress being made and just seemed nothing was happening.

I thought it was going to go quick I was blindsided that the company wanted concessions.In my opinion not a way to get a merger completed.I thought they were going to wait till next contract for the BS

 

[WeAAsles]

By goals, I mean it is mostly about medical for the LUS side and scope for the LAA side. Keep in mind the LUS side already has a higher outsourcing percentage.
And I am only referring to maintenance outsourcing here.

So are you saying that you believe that the IAM enjoys having a higher percentage of outsourcing and doesn’t really care about capturing more work? I’d have to really doubt that.

As much as I’d have to doubt we don’t have a ton of guys at AA who wouldn’t love to save a few hundred a month on their Medical costs. Especially younger guys with Families who aren’t at TOS yet.

 

[NYer]

I thought it was going to go quick I was blindsided that the company wanted concessions.In my opinion not a way to get a merger completed.I thought they were going to wait till next contract for the BS

Airline is a copycat industry. Profits and loses aren't the first thing to look at when trying to forecast the Company position.

First place to look is other airlines and other contracts.try to find what's the trend and move from there to try and create a strategy for negotiations.

With profits you can maximize a return but over playing your hand is also something to be careful for. It's a fine line.

 

[WeAAsles]

I also believe that's a factor.

So says the guy who wasn’t part of the reconciliation and drafting of the first proposals to the Company.

 

[ALUS78]

Airline is a copycat industry. Profits and loses aren't the first thing to look at when trying to forecast the Company position.

First place to look is other airlines and other contracts.try to find what's the trend and move from there to try and create a strategy for negotiations.

With profits you can maximize a return but over playing your hand is also something to be careful for. It's a fine line.

Seeing the trouble UAL had with integration I thought AAwould pay a premium to avoid that mess .You did mention naive

 

[NYer]

Seeing the trouble UAL had with integration I thought AAwould pay a premium to avoid that mess .You did mention naive

They may have been open to pay a premium as they may to avoid Section 6, but paying a premium and getting a blank check are two different things.

The easiest way to throw away a possible opportunity is to over play your hand.

 

[WeAAsles]

BREAKING NEWS:

Unconfirmed reports are filtering in to the Newsroom and “flies” are reporting that the team of Babu (Tim Nelson) have had their DOL appeal of the 2017 Grand Lodge do over election loss denied.

Stay tuned to this news channel for further developments as this story unfolds.

SITO IS UNCUFFED......

 

[cltrat]

Wasn’t Babu an elephant in a kids story? Or maybe it was a chimp