American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

BREAKING NEWS:

Unconfirmed reports are filtering in to the Newsroom and “flies” are reporting that the team of Babu (Tim Nelson) have had their DOL appeal of the 2017 Grand Lodge do over election loss denied.

Stay tuned to this news channel for further developments as this story unfolds.

SITO IS UNCUFFED......

#5543 explains that the 2017 election has now been determined under the remedy of the 2018 election. Stay Tuned.

 

[WeAAsles]

#5543 explains that the 2017 election has now been determined under the remedy of the 2018 election. Stay Tuned.

Nah. Too late. You edited post # 5583, 2 hours after the fact and deleted post # 5543.......

 

[Tim Nelson]

Nah. Too late. You edited post # 5583, 2 hours after the fact and deleted post # 5543.......

Well, not sure which post, maybe I got them confused. But I think someone is reading something wrongly. Not necessarily you but someone in the union. More on this later.

 

[MetalMover]

So are you saying that you believe that the IAM enjoys having a higher percentage of outsourcing and doesn’t really care about capturing more work? I’d have to really doubt that.

As much as I’d have to doubt we don’t have a ton of guys at AA who wouldn’t love to save a few hundred a month on their Medical costs. Especially younger guys with Families who aren’t at TOS yet.

I never said they ENJOY anything. I have had the opportunity to speak with LUS mechanics on field trips to my station. But that are very accepting of what they have after two bankruptcies. There was nothing they could do about that.
Right now at this point it time, It is the medical for the LUS side and scope for the TWU side!

Let me ask you this WeAAz.....Hypothetically, suppose we made it to official mediation, or better yet arbitration (dreaming on this one)...... That official will look at industry standards over scope and medical. He or she will also look at what the rest of AA employees are paying for medical. They won't take into account profits earned. As the other big airlines are also profitable..
Want to guess what medical would survive? Scope?

 

[MetalMover]

Don't agree. The biggest factor would be what the Company wants and if the Scope issues are as reported then we'd be arguing most of the same things that are currently an issue

We focus on the TWU and the IAM but it's the Company that wants modifications that either or both unions don't want to give up. That would still be true whether it is the TWU, IAM, AMFA, AMP of the Association.

I'll put it this way, if all the IAM issues were resolved the TWU would still be at the table arguing Scope and other things. It's not like our issues are resolved and we waiting for someone else.

OF COURSE the company wants things. Are we in LA LA LAND here to expect they are supposed to give us all we ask?
I can't believe that people actually expect this company or any company to give us EVERYTHING we want WITHOUT giving something in return!

But it is funny how MEDICAL wasn't mentioned in the latest update....

I have said it many times before,,,,,We should NEVER have to give anything up again EVER! But unfortunately that is not how this works.

 

[Buck]

Wasn’t Babu an elephant in a kids story? Or maybe it was a chimp

 

[WeAAsles]

“We, at American, are assuming that $75 a barrel Brent crude or higher is our new reality, and we intend to adapt our airline to one that can make $5 billion per year at these fuel prices. The fact is, there are many activities in excess of $45 a barrel of oil, which no longer make sense at $75 per barrel. We're taking aggressive actions in the immediate term, including lower our 2018 capacity growth, reducing our nonfuel expenses and deferring future aircraft deliveries and CapEx. We're also adjusting our Basic Economy product offering to become more competitive. Robert and Derek will describe those actions in more detail shortly.”

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/edited-transcript-aal-earnings-conference-111347247.html

 

[WeAAsles]

I never said they ENJOY anything. I have had the opportunity to speak with LUS mechanics on field trips to my station. But that are very accepting of what they have after two bankruptcies. There was nothing they could do about that.
Right now at this point it time, It is the medical for the LUS side and scope for the TWU side!

Let me ask you this WeAAz.....Hypothetically, suppose we made it to official mediation, or better yet arbitration (dreaming on this one)...... That official will look at industry standards over scope and medical. He or she will also look at what the rest of AA employees are paying for medical. They won't take into account profits earned. As the other big airlines are also profitable..
Want to guess what medical would survive? Scope?

You’re absolutely right Metal. And as a matter of fact if it were in the hands of an Arbitrator and AA was already offering industry average on economics and bettering the industry on overall job numbers and Medical costs to Members (That I don’t think they are) the Arbitrator would render a decision towards the Company position.

As a matter of fact IMO if the Medical costs percentage were brought down (back) to 18% of the total over 21% this thing could potentially be put in the bag?

Now here’s a question for you?

Say the Association capitulated and agreed to accept those offers with higher Medical for IAM and job loss for TWU no matter what the overall Compensation per individual winds up being isn’t it going to feed into the narrative of the rock throwers that the Association is a failure if they didn’t get everything under the sun?

I’d also honestly like to see us set the bar that others are striving for.

 

[WeAAsles]

Official Determination from the DOL today 7/26/2018. Therefore, civil action under Section 402(b) of the LMRDA to set aside the election conducted in February 2017 is not warranted. /S/ Sharon Hanley Chief, Division of Enforcement.

From Tim Nelson written on his censored Facebook Group page.

“Brothers and Sisters

The BABU lost its appeal for a rerun election.
We want to thank all of you who have supported our efforts to change this union from within its shell.

Our work of bringing democratic change and a more radical Labor union remains unfinished.

As we move forward, we will also explore outside the shell of the IAM as we continue our work.

Onward!”

 

[Tim Nelson]

Official Determination from the DOL today 7/26/2018. Therefore, civil action under Section 402(b) of the LMRDA to set aside the election conducted in February 2017 is not warranted. /S/ Sharon Hanley Chief, Division of Enforcement.

From Tim Nelson written on his censored Facebook Group page.

“Brothers and Sisters

The BABU lost its appeal for a rerun election.
We want to thank all of you who have supported our efforts to change this union from within its shell.

Our work of bringing democratic change and a more radical Labor union remains unfinished.

As we move forward, we will also explore outside the shell of the IAM as we continue our work.

Onward!”

^^^This^^^

In regards to the Association, it most likely means an AIP gets presented to the members, extremely soon. Lus will lose their current medical. Im against that but, like you, im the only one on my medical so i will barely be affected. But families will now be hosed at lus soon enuf.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

Official Determination from the DOL today 7/26/2018. Therefore, civil action under Section 402(b) of the LMRDA to set aside the election conducted in February 2017 is not warranted. /S/ Sharon Hanley Chief, Division of Enforcement.

From Tim Nelson written on his censored Facebook Group page.

“Brothers and Sisters

The BABU lost its appeal for a rerun election.
We want to thank all of you who have supported our efforts to change this union from within its shell.

Our work of bringing democratic change and a more radical Labor union remains unfinished.

As we move forward, we will also explore outside the shell of the IAM as we continue our work.

Onward!”

So... this is how he proclaims to be "In charge"... losing is winning... lies are the truth... up is down...left is right etc. sounds like the POTUS... sad..

WeAAz...I do NOT want this association! I did NOT vote for this association! And I will continue to NOT want this association.

Did you "want" the LAA/LUSmerger? Did you "vote" for the merger? Do you currently "want" the merger?

I do not believe member's feelings towards the ASSociation is a reason negotiations are where they are now.

Who are speaking for? How many have officially signed onto "not wanting the association?

 

[WeAAsles]

^^^This^^^

In regards to the Association, it most likely means an AIP gets presented to the members, extremely soon. Lus will lose their current medical. Im against that but, like you, im the only one on my medical so i will barely be affected. But families will now be hosed at lus soon enuf.

Not so fast Tim. You continue to forget quite disrespectfully that there is a second Union besides the IAM involved in this partnership and as of yet there are still many issues regarding Scope that are still unresolved satisfactorily to the TWU side.

Even if your own Union were prepared to sell you out on the Medical as quick as you claim they are, I don’t see the TWU side rolling over quite as fast.

AA Management is still looking for a rise in the overall outsourcing percentage of AMT work, a huge majority of Facilities and Automotive Jobs, Catering, Freight and some Deicing.

Those IMO are FAR bigger issues than the IAM Medical dilemma.

 

[MetalMover]

So... this is how he proclaims to be "In charge"... losing is winning... lies are the truth... up is down...left is right etc. sounds like the POTUS... sad..

Did you "want" the LAA/LUSmerger? Did you "vote" for the merger? Do you currently "want" the merger?
Who are speaking for? How many have officially signed onto "not wanting the association?

Nice try At spin! As for the merger, We had no say in it. Doesn’t matter what I want.
But I should have a say in who is representing me. I never had a chance to vote! Did you?

Are you serious? How many officials signed onto not wanting the ASSociation?
Remember Gary Petersen tried to stop the association legally?
How many of your coworkers wanted this association? Not one person in my station. Wanted it or WANT IT! I am speaking for myself and those I work with. Like a poll, it is a pretty good indication of how many people feel.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

You are correct weez... scope loss is job loss...
Even when we are guaranteed that no jobs will be lost (initially anyway). A loss of scope is something we will NEVER regain, and it will cost JOBS,
if not immediately-- certainly at some point in the future!

>SPIT<

 

[MetalMover]

You’re absolutely right Metal. And as a matter of fact if it were in the hands of an Arbitrator and AA was already offering industry average on economics and bettering the industry on overall job numbers and Medical costs to Members (That I don’t think they are) the Arbitrator would render a decision towards the Company position.

As a matter of fact IMO if the Medical costs percentage were brought down (back) to 18% of the total over 21% this thing could potentially be put in the bag?

Now here’s a question for you?

Say the Association capitulated and agreed to accept those offers with higher Medical for IAM and job loss for TWU no matter what the overall Compensation per individual winds up being isn’t it going to feed into the narrative of the rock throwers that the Association is a failure if they didn’t get everything under the sun?

I’d also honestly like to see us set the bar that others are striving for.

If that scenario were to come to be, I for one would not accuse the ASSociation of betrayal. That’s just me. The reason being that no matter what we think is guaranteed will be lost at some point. I have learned this over the course of many decades contract after contract.