American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

It is a one-time payment but do not forget the signing bonus, which I do think should take seniority into account. If the move to Workbrain is going to cost TOS employees more then our bonus should be higher. If TOS is about 3X starting rate, I do not think it unreasonable to ask for at least 2X or 6000 for TOS signing bonus.

I’m not concerned with that aspect of any JCBA gulfcoast. That’s a short term issue against headier long term concerns.

Relent those jobs? Isnt that whats happening?

I haven’t read any TA yet Al, have you?

May be worth it based on principle, but not financially.

Principles don’t pay the bills but sometimes they are worth more than the comfort you think money can bring you.

 

[NYer]

Principal doesn't pay the bills. Although it is a concession for LUS many are not willing to die on this hill as I see it. I believe the company knows this as well.

When other CBA's move ahead and we become stagnant it is just a matter of time before the loss in our revenue surpasses the addition to the expenses.

Therefore, just saying no indefinitely isn't really a viable strategy.

 

[ALUS78]

I’m not concerned with that aspect of any JCBA gulfcoast. That’s a short term issue against headier long term concerns.



I haven’t read any TA yet Al, have you?



Principles don’t pay the bills but sometimes they are worth more than the comfort you think money can bring you.

Sorry Weez thats right you heard we wouldn't have to relent our medical,what was I thinking?

 

[cltrat]

I am not taking a position on whether you are right or wrong, but doesn't the LUS medical kind of do the same to PT to the benefit of FT?

yes it does I'd have no issue paying more to fix that. It's paying much more for less I have an issue with. I have a lot of health concerns and have and use a 100% policy,so to the AA plan I'm guaranteed to pay more for less.
So yeah if imI going to lose it I want a lot for it.what that is idk but a one time payoff the government would take a big chunk of doesn't sound exciting

 

[WeAAsles]

Define concessions. Would you agree, that in some cases, holding out to avoid concessions for some on a can be more costly in the long run? Especially, in our case, where a concession to one is not necessarily, a concession to another?

Principal doesn't pay the bills. Although it is a concession for LUS many are not willing to die on this hill as I see it. I believe the company knows this as well.

Ograc I’m curious. With the fact that the Company has offered to secure the 40 Stations already staffed doesn’t that end the largest focus you had in regards to these talks?

You do know there are still many unresolved issues such as trying to gain even more stations that have been lost that people would like to go home to.

We still don’t have back at least a dozen cities lost in the Bankruptcy not to mention others lost going back even longer.

Principles?

 

[WeAAsles]

yes it does I'd have no issue paying more to fix that. It's paying much more for less I have an issue with. I have a lot of health concerns and have and use a 100% policy,so to the AA plan I'm guaranteed to pay more for less.
So yeah if imI going to lose it I want a lot for it.what that is idk but a one time payoff the government would take a big chunk of doesn't sound exciting

Hey rat I’m very sorry about your Medical issues. Thank you very much for sharing something personal like that with us.

Maybe NYer or others who think like him are willing to help subsidize that dramatic added expense they seem to have no problem saddling you with?

 

[Racer X]

Of course your Negotiators have costed it out and if they’re ever to relent to losing the Medical advantage it’s not going to be given for free. They costed it out to be 30 Million per year to include TWU into the benefit and I’m not sure what the cost would be if you came up to our cost.

Again I’ve said I have no problem with you being compensated for the loss or even if you kept the benefit outright and it wasn’t extended to me.

The only problem with you keeping it over us is that you would have people on the TWU side voting no on principle alone. And it would completely damage any chance the Association has of any unity moving forward. We would always be divided and the Company over time would eat us alive.

WeAAs,
The company gave the numbers as 39 million for all 30,000 Assoc members to be on LUS medical. They would save 15 million if IAM loses their medical and goes to LAA medical. So the additional cost to move all TWU represented to LUS medical is actually an additional 24 million.
Lus 15 m
Twu 24 m
Total 39 m.
Hope that clears it up

 

[Racer X]

May be worth it based on principle, but not financially.

Can’t make that statement as a certainty. What about 20% of medical bills that you are on the hook for if you actually have to use that crap medical? That cost could be astronomical.

 

[NYer]

Can’t make that statement as a certainty. What about 20% of medical bills that you are on the hook for if you actually have to use that crap medical? That cost could be astronomical.

Possibly, but the loss of revenue touches everyone.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAs,
The company gave the numbers as 39 million for all 30,000 Assoc members to be on LUS medical. They would save 15 million if IAM loses their medical and goes to LAA medical. So the additional cost to move all TWU represented to LUS medical is actually an additional 24 million.
Lus 15 m
Twu 24 m
Total 39 m.
Hope that clears it up

Thanks Racer. I wish I could find a place to pin this information since I usually just run with things off the top of my head and if need be re-search just to verify. Hopefully soon we have an AIP and I don’t need to ask you for this info again.

Can’t make that statement as a certainty. What about 20% of medical bills that you are on the hook for if you actually have to use that crap medical? That cost could be astronomical.

Please don’t call my Medical crap. Even if we both know it is crap and we have people in my Union actually defending the crap in comparison to your Gold Standard saying “oh it’s not so bad”

Yea if you really really need to use it, it’s crap.

 

[Talos]

Can’t make that statement as a certainty. What about 20% of medical bills that you are on the hook for if you actually have to use that crap medical? That cost could be astronomical.

The LAA insurance is actually way lower than the average cost of plans by companies in the US. The average cost for a family plan is close to 1000 a month. Single people are 300-400. The out of pocket max may be high but it's not like you have to sell your house to pay medical. Medical insurance is a huge problem in this country as in others. And it keeps going up at an absurd rate.

 

[WeAAsles]

Possibly, but the loss of revenue touches everyone.

Why don’t you just be honest and tell him that he’s holding us TWU hostage on that Medical and that just ain’t being cool man.

This is an Association don’t they know. Where’s the brotherhood? The camadrie? The justice for all? My freakin money ain’t in my pocket bro.

(You didn’t foresee this back when did you ;-) )

 

[WeAAsles]

The current CWA/IBT Passenger Service Agents contract has a list of cities to be outsourced and replacement thru attrition.

Burbank Airport is on that list

CWA/IBT had two mainline a day scope any more mainline it was CWA/IBT work. Huge concession to give up that language
In BUR Agents work side by side with contractors
all work can be done my who ever management wants when ever at any time management wants
BUR has no scope because of the agreement with CWA/IBT to allow them to be replaced with contractors. The so call agreement allows the drain down of mainline employees therefore the work can and will and does allow contractors to do all work at these stations. Most to the cities on the list are being replacement by CWA represented Piedmont/Envoy.

Thank you John John. Are those the cities that they classify as B cities? I know I read that if you dropped below the equivalent of 5 Mainline flights per day they could reclassify a city as B.

Do you know how many cities are classified as A cities and are pretty secure?

Do you think that language exists because of what you are being paid? The question being is it a overall possible cost issue why they would not want to continue to staff in-house?

But again another example of the Union representing the same lower cost replacements. Seems to be a pattern in all three AFL/CIO affiliated AA Unions, CWA, IAM and TWU.

 

[Racer X]

The LAA insurance is actually way lower than the average cost of plans by companies in the US. The average cost for a family plan is close to 1000 a month. Single people are 300-400. The out of pocket max may be high but it's not like you have to sell your house to pay medical. Medical insurance is a huge problem in this country as in others. And it keeps going up at an absurd rate.

I was talking with a member the other day. Sadly his son needed a heart operation. The cost was $300,000.00. If he had the least expensive of the LAA 80% plans he would be on the hook for $60,000!!!
Thankfully, his total out of pocket with the LUS medical was $3,000!!

 

[AANOTOK]

I was talking with a member the other day. Sadly his son needed a heart operation. The cost was $300,000.00. If he had the least expensive of the LAA 80% plans he would be on the hook for $60,000!!!
Thankfully, his total out of pocket with the LUS medical was $3,000!!

I'm not sure how that could be. Although just my wife and I, on the Standard plan which is $850 deductible/ Then I pay 20% of the bill until I reach my max $2000 out of pocket. Then AA pays 100%. Unless I'm really out of touch since my son is no longer on my plan, I don't know how someone could be stuck with a $60,000 bill.
A couple of years ago I had heart trouble and my bill was $104,000. I never paid more than $2800.