American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[CremaDiLimone]

Maybe not ,we’ll wait and be pissed off when all the improvements are paid for with concessions from our side

exactly. let forbes go interview an ex lus guy after a contract with all on laa insurance is ratified. he'll find a few pissed off employees.

again, i was of the opinion that the NC iam big-shooters should have been talking amongst themselves what to get in 'exchange' for it...and personally, i would have no issue with lus/iam guys getting exclusive compensation for it.

an alternative is digging in and then losing it and not getting anything of substance for it from mediation. that would be tragic.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The improvements as known currently not even counting possible further improvements amount to around $10,000 for a TOS TWU (Agent)

$3200 in wages ($1.00 per hour + .50 shift dif)
$3800 extra Holiday pay (If all Holidays worked)
And around an extra $3000 in 401k contributions if a member is putting in the max to capitalize on it.

Overtime should not be anticipated into annual earnings as that can always fluctuate.

a sweetener here and there and a TOS fsc will fall out of bed earning $80k+, helped by the paltry profit sharing.

johnsen will have a conniption fit.

 

[cltrat]

exactly. let forbes go interview an ex lus guy after a contract with all on laa insurance is ratified. he'll find a few pissed off employees.

again, i was of the opinion that the NC iam big-shooters should have been talking amongst themselves what to get in 'exchange' for it...and personally, i would have no issue with lus/iam guys getting exclusive compensation for it.

an alternative is digging in and then losing it and not getting anything of substance for it from mediation. that would be tragic.

I agree and have asked some of those things myself but no one seems interested in talking about “what if’s”

 

[WeAAsles]

exactly. let forbes go interview an ex lus guy after a contract with all on laa insurance is ratified. he'll find a few pissed off employees.

again, i was of the opinion that the NC iam big-shooters should have been talking amongst themselves what to get in 'exchange' for it...and personally, i would have no issue with lus/iam guys getting exclusive compensation for it.

an alternative is digging in and then losing it and not getting anything of substance for it from mediation. that would be tragic.

First things first in Fleet. The Company needs to back off the IAM Catering and Lav language change for TWU.

Too many ridiculously easy solutions exist to solve the Medical problems if they aren’t already about to be solved?

Compromise down the middle. Association members pay 17 or 18% of the total cost rather than 21%. And limit or cap the cost rise for the life of the contract.

Or raise the cost over time for the life of the contract again limiting or capping any rising costs.

If the Company today has the ability to pass rising fuel costs onto the passengers they can also do the same for rising labor costs. Don’t let them kid you.

 

[WeAAsles]

a sweetener here and there and a TOS fsc will fall out of bed earning $80k+, helped by the paltry profit sharing.

johnsen will have a conniption fit.

Even without the sweeteners a TOS Agent is hitting $71,000 with wages and all those Holliday’s and the .50 shift dif. From there add another 6 to $7,000 for 401k match and a few mandatory white slips will put you over the top for the year.

Add $4,600 if you’re a Crew Chief.

OT will begin to dry up some though. I think it’s been part of the plan anyway to try to establish as best as possible some fixed labor expenses.

 

[WeAAsles]

I agree and have asked some of those things myself but no one seems interested in talking about “what if’s”

Of course your Negotiators have costed it out and if they’re ever to relent to losing the Medical advantage it’s not going to be given for free. They costed it out to be 30 Million per year to include TWU into the benefit and I’m not sure what the cost would be if you came up to our cost.

Again I’ve said I have no problem with you being compensated for the loss or even if you kept the benefit outright and it wasn’t extended to me.

The only problem with you keeping it over us is that you would have people on the TWU side voting no on principle alone. And it would completely damage any chance the Association has of any unity moving forward. We would always be divided and the Company over time would eat us alive.

 

[NYer]

I agree and have asked some of those things myself but no one seems interested in talking about “what if’s”

"What if' us

 

[AANOTOK]

Again, I absolutely would vote no on LUS keeping their healthcare and LAA keeping theirs.
But again, moot point as no chance in hell that happens. I will say though I have no problem either with LUS getting compensated in some form for incurring the higher cost. I thought, and I may be mistaken, the FA's were given a lump sum check or some other type of monetary compensation.

 

[WeAAsles]

Again, I absolutely would vote no on LUS keeping their healthcare and LAA keeping theirs.
But again, moot point as no chance in hell that happens. I will say though I have no problem either with LUS getting compensated in some form for incurring the higher cost. I thought, and I may be mistaken, the FA's were given a lump sum check or some other type of monetary compensation.

AANOTOK you need to stop saying that there’s no chance in hell that anything could be released for us to vote on. There are plenty of contracts that have a two tier Medical cost and as a matter of fact the LUS IAM contract itself has one does it not?

I’d say the likelihood is slim but not impossible. Mainly those second tier wage and medical expenses have been written to effect new hires coming in after a particular date of signing.

There again are many creative ways that a Company can play with medical expenses. Charge more for plans, more for deductibles, restrict coverage to certain drugs or look at our Flight Attendants. Next year they have to work 40 hours per month or they lose they’re medical.

That’s going to force many of them that barely work out the door into retirement. Which will bring down costs as newer employees aren’t going to use the Medical plans much.

Anyway my point is that nothing is impossible.

(Now let’s see if someone just wants to antagonize me and repeat your line, not a chance in hell?, obviously I’ve grown to expect that here now)

 

[ALUS78]

First things first in Fleet. The Company needs to back off the IAM Catering and Lav language change for TWU.

Too many ridiculously easy solutions exist to solve the Medical problems if they aren’t already about to be solved?

Compromise down the middle. Association members pay 17 or 18% of the total cost rather than 21%. And limit or cap the cost rise for the life of the contract.

Or raise the cost over time for the life of the contract again limiting or capping any rising costs.

If the Company today has the ability to pass rising fuel costs onto the passengers they can also do the same for rising labor costs. Don’t let them kid you.

Your first paragraph, will keeping what we already have be a victory for you?

 

[NYer]

Again, I absolutely would vote no on LUS keeping their healthcare and LAA keeping theirs.
But again, moot point as no chance in hell that happens. I will say though I have no problem either with LUS getting compensated in some form for incurring the higher cost. I thought, and I may be mistaken, the FA's were given a lump sum check or some other type of monetary compensation.

After a little more than a year in Section 6, even the IAM guys will be losing more in potential compensation than what they're trying to save by holding onto their medical.

 

[ALUS78]

Of course your Negotiators have costed it out and if they’re ever to relent to losing the Medical advantage it’s not going to be given for free. They costed it out to be 30 Million per year to include TWU into the benefit and I’m not sure what the cost would be if you came up to our cost.

Again I’ve said I have no problem with you being compensated for the loss or even if you kept the benefit outright and it wasn’t extended to me.

The only problem with you keeping it over us is that you would have people on the TWU side voting no on principle alone. And it would completely damage any chance the Association has of any unity moving forward. We would always be divided and the Company over time would eat us alive.

And it wouldn't be fair

 

[ALUS78]

After a little more than a year in Section 6, even the IAM guys will be losing more in potential compensation than she they're trying to save by holding onto their medical.

That's if they don't get sick.

 

[AANOTOK]

AANOTOK you need to stop saying that there’s no chance in hell that anything could be released for us to vote on. There are plenty of contracts that have a two tier Medical cost and as a matter of fact the LUS IAM contract itself has one does it not?

I’d say the likelihood is slim but not impossible. Mainly those second tier wage and medical expenses have been written to effect new hires coming in after a particular date of signing.

There again are many creative ways that a Company can play with medical expenses. Charge more for plans, more for deductibles, restrict coverage to certain drugs or look at our Flight Attendants. Next year they have to work 40 hours per month or they lose they’re medical.

That’s going to force many of them that barely work out the door into retirement. Which will bring down costs as newer employees aren’t going to use the Medical plans much.

Anyway my point is that nothing is impossible.

(Now let’s see if someone just wants to antagonize me and repeat your line, not a chance in hell?, obviously I’ve grown to expect that here now)

LOL W, I guess we have a misunderstanding. I said "not a chance in hell' which means either "To be completely impossible" or "incredibly unlikely". I'm going with the latter and is pretty much the same as "the likelihood is slim". Tomato or Tomatoe?

 

[WeAAsles]

Your first paragraph, will keeping what we already have be a victory for you?

For Scope no it’s just a shell game. It was a distraction against gaining back old work and nothing more.

And it wouldn't be fair

Fairness can sometimes be equated to jealousy. I worry about paying my own bills, not how others pay there’s.

After a little more than a year in Section 6, even the IAM guys will be losing more in potential compensation than what they're trying to save by holding onto their medical.

That would be correct. Not to mention how many people would actually take on the full $6,000 for the year hit? Although I’m sure if it were you or I we would be screaming bloody murder anyway.

LOL W, I guess we have a misunderstanding. I said "not a chance in hell' which means either "To be completely impossible" or "incredibly unlikely". I'm going with the latter and is pretty much the same as "the likelihood is slim". Tomato or Tomatoe?

Philosophically two tier contracts have become very unpopular in Union circles and they are now being discouraged.

https://www.thenation.com/article/how-two-tier-union-contracts-became-labors-undoing/