American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[PIEDMONT784]

You are correct there could be literally zero fleet workers in twenty years. The tech already exists to replace everyone.

Agreed, the labor force as we know it will change dramatically over the next decade or two. This will not be isolated to just airlines, ALL industries will be affected. Airline Unions will have to eventually recognize this, and attempt to negotiate language that limits Robotics and AI.

That is... "IF" the RLA is not decimated by the Trump GOP with RTW legislation, that would make negotiating any such language impossible.
https://www.bna.com/trump-administration-puts-n57982083381/

Below is an interesting article from the WSJ that recognizes that oilfield workers (roughnecks) are already getting displaced with AI/Automation. These jobs are some of the highest paying in America for non-college educated workers. The demographic is very similar to that of the Fleet Worker.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/oils-new-technology-spells-end-of-boom-for-roughnecks-1531233085

 

[britjames]

You are correct... However, there is one other element that we should all be worried about though...
Fleets "replacement" (and everyone else's) is about a decade away, and they are here already...
They do not require a wage, healthcare, vacations, or lunch beaks. They can work triple shifts indefinitely...

Exactly, the only human intervention will be for machine maintenance... or is that too taken care by AI??

 

[PIEDMONT784]

Exactly, the only human intervention will be for machine maintenance... or is that too taken care by AI??

Well... we already know AI can write code better than humans. AI has allowed for "self repairing" software to evolve to the point that the need for programmers has diminished as well. Currently, robots already build cars, washing machines, TV's and about everything else, so you know Robots can also build MORE Robots.

The technology will certainly be there to manufacture, and designate individual robots to repair fleets of other robots. There is virtually NO occupation or task that humans currently perform that will escape this technology.

Just ask the Pilots, they lost the third officer (Flight Engineer) to technology years ago.
In fact, the current technology "could" allow for one pilot even today, or even NO pilots in the future.
http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/opinion-pilotless-commercial-aircraft-likely-2020s-2030s

 

[britjames]

Well... we already know AI can write code better than humans. AI has allowed for "self repairing" software to evolve to the point that the need for programmers has diminished as well. Currently, robots already build cars, washing machines, TV's and about everything else, so you know Robots can also build MORE Robots.

The technology will certainly be there to manufacture, and designate individual robots to repair fleets of other robots. There is virtually NO occupation or task that humans currently perform that will escape this technology.

Just ask the Pilots, they lost the third officer (Flight Engineer) to technology years ago.
In fact, the current technology "could" allow for one pilot even today, or even NO pilots in the future.
http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/opinion-pilotless-commercial-aircraft-likely-2020s-2030s

Right,, hard to disagree. Everything is becoming autonomous, so why not plane. Let that too be in future.

 

[Kev3188]

Or this:

https://news.delta.com/delta-explores-robotic-suits-augment-employee-safety-strength-front-lines

 

[B737 driver]

Well... we already know AI can write code better than humans. AI has allowed for "self repairing" software to evolve to the point that the need for programmers has diminished as well. Currently, robots already build cars, washing machines, TV's and about everything else, so you know Robots can also build MORE Robots.

The technology will certainly be there to manufacture, and designate individual robots to repair fleets of other robots. There is virtually NO occupation or task that humans currently perform that will escape this technology.

Just ask the Pilots, they lost the third officer (Flight Engineer) to technology years ago.
In fact, the current technology "could" allow for one pilot even today, or even NO pilots in the future.
http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/opinion-pilotless-commercial-aircraft-likely-2020s-2030s

My Dad was a mechanical engineer retired from two companies. He told me this story, they were union at factory he worked at. As an engineer he was salary. A union guy was complaining about a raise. My Dad told him "Everytime they give you a raise they pay me more money, to design a machine to replace you."

 

[Tim Nelson]

Agreed, the labor force as we know it will change dramatically over the next decade or two. This will not be isolated to just airlines, ALL industries will be affected. Airline Unions will have to eventually recognize this, and attempt to negotiate language that limits Robotics and AI.

That is... "IF" the RLA is not decimated by the Trump GOP with RTW legislation, that would make negotiating any such language impossible.
https://www.bna.com/trump-administration-puts-n57982083381/

Below is an interesting article from the WSJ that recognizes that oilfield workers (roughnecks) are already getting displaced with AI/Automation. These jobs are some of the highest paying in America for non-college educated workers. The demographic is very similar to that of the Fleet Worker.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/oils-new-technology-spells-end-of-boom-for-roughnecks-1531233085

the iam will not be around in 5 years in the airline industry if there is no rerun.
We will mobilize quickly against the madness of the Ill Ask Management.

 

[Jester]

There's a little more to that story but it's been gone over hundred times on this forum and I'm not going to get into it tic tac toe no one wins how about a nice game of chess Joshua

At least, I'll recognize you next time I am in town...

You are correct... However, there is one other element that we should all be worried about though...
Fleets "replacement" (and everyone else's) is about a decade away, and they are here already...
They do not require a wage, healthcare, vacations, or lunch beaks. They can work triple shifts indefinitely...

To be sure robotics could replace many physical jobs, but usually it requires standardized physical inputs in fairly controlled settings. Assembly line workers, meter readers (using smart sensors), sorters, order takers, etc., but given the tight confines of an aircraft bin with various sized, shaped and weight bags expecting a tight stack while dealing with rain, I am not seeing it in our lifetime.

Maybe if a robot was programmed to dump all bags into cargo containers, then passed along to another robot to drive the bags to a K-loader robot to be pushed and secured by a different "belly robot"? Sounds inefficient and expensive for narrow-body planes to haul cans, as both Boeing and Airbus have tried them on B737s and A320s, and very few airlines use them. Besides does it make sense to spend millions of dollars on a robot to replace even 4 ramp agents? Even robots have service lives.

 

[NYer]

AAL $35.96: ( -$3.16 change -8.08%)

Not a good trend.

 

[ALUS78]

AAL $35.96: ( -$3.16 change -8.08%)

Not a good trend.

Actually a buying opportunity did you see oil drop?

 

[ALUS78]

At least, I'll recognize you next time I am in town...


To be sure robotics could replace many physical jobs, but usually it requires standardized physical inputs in fairly controlled settings. Assembly line workers, meter readers (using smart sensors), sorters, order takers, etc., but given the tight confines of an aircraft bin with various sized, shaped and weight bags expecting a tight stack while dealing with rain, I am not seeing it in our lifetime.

Maybe if a robot was programmed to dump all bags into cargo containers, then passed along to another robot to drive the bags to a K-loader robot to be pushed and secured by a different "belly robot"? Sounds inefficient and expensive for narrow-body planes to haul cans, as both Boeing and Airbus have tried them on B737s and A320s, and very few airlines use them. Besides does it make sense to spend millions of dollars on a robot to replace even 4 ramp agents? Even robots have service lives.

Jester egg salad and Tang please

 

[WeAAsles]

Actually a buying opportunity did you see oil drop?

Not a good trend for oil.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...ftens-stance-on-iranian-sanction-waivers.html

 

[737823]

There's a little more to that story but it's been gone over hundred times on this forum and I'm not going to get into it tic tac toe no one wins how about a nice game of chess Joshua

Based on the tone of the letters from Roach that came out and how people like 700 got giddy about it the IAM really was hoping it would be a big win for them to get more dues payers but they basically extended free services to the company in exchange for nothing. The IAM was long bitter the AMTs at NW left for AMFA years back.

Then NWA took the IAM to the cleaners in BK, and finally they got decertified at DL. Aside from a few perpetual malcontents at DL there isn’t much interest it would seem.

Actually a buying opportunity did you see oil drop?

The Company gave weak revenue guidance.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

AAL $35.96: ( -$3.16 change -8.08%)

Not a good trend.

oh boy. what happened to Weez prediction of $75?
Remind me not to listen to weez and his handlers who also predicted oil back down to $40.

 

[WeAAsles]

the iam will not be around in 5 years in the airline industry if there is no rerun.
We will mobilize quickly against the madness of the Ill Ask Management.

Oh boy what happened to kook swearing there was going to be a rerun and that he had Sito cuffed? And he swore when he was a kid he’d make the Basketball team pay for throwing their jocks on his head back in seminary school.