American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Kev3188]

ua does it's RJs in hubs. you guys have confirmed that dl and lus do RJ work. i know al says lus did and does RJs in lga.

aa, already the outsource king with 'envoy'.

I’m continuously amazed that AA farms out that much work, and that the TWU is/was okay with it (all the more so, given I agree with your earlier points about accountability & performance).

 

[Kev3188]

Scope Protection: We also remain apart on Scope Protection for our members. Management Negotiators continue to make demands that we accept their proposal that we do significantly less work in the future than we do today. These open items are Scope provisions that we currently have, and are fighting to protect, not additional items.

You already have “significantly less work” covered than other carriers, including DL.

 

[ALUS78]

As long as Parker and Isom continue to hold there current positions, We won't see our eagerly anticipated Industry Leading Contract....What's even more amazing is even after the release of the current update, there are still members out there from AA and LUS that want to vote whatever the Company is trying to sell us in..........

What makes you think a new CEO will give us leading contract? Without hearing about the timeline of the raises it was Parker who said 3% above who ever is highest DL or UA.......i know he originally said 7% i just dont want to hear it for the billionth time

 

[dfw gen]

Safe to say they did not talk into nor thru the weekend. The update below shows that it was written 12-13-19 which is Fri. And as they stated, "there will be no update until talks are done." Just more false info and lies from the asso. to keep the membership strung along. The lies just keep flowing because they are feeling the rather large pressure of the energy of this card drive this time around. People are "finally" sick and tired.
here's the last update after talks ended Fri. 13th...

Sisters and Brothers,

Over the past several weeks, the Association, the NMB and American Airlines have been working to reach the tentative agreement our members have been promised and rightfully deserve. As most of you know, we also agreed to limit communications in a manner that would not create more rumor or inuendo from either side.

Management Negotiators are frequently absent from these negotiations which was the primary reason for not continuing face-to-face negotiations this week. We also had requested that the NMB allow us to negotiate the week of Thanksgiving, but the Company Negotiators passed on that opportunity as well. We have yet to see Robert Isom or Doug Parker, who we believe are calling the shots from Texas, engage in any negotiating session since the day negotiations started.

With that said, we felt it was imperative at this point to provide a fact-based update to our members about some of the key items that remain open. Below represents a few of the outrageous items Management Negotiators have not provided acceptable solutions to. Please keep in mind that while you may not see an issue listed, others are open, and we cannot agree to a Tentative Agreement until they are all resolved.

Compensation: Management negotiators have walked backwards from their previous public statements and are now only offering the Pay of Delta or Southwest, and with managements 2% out year raises, our members will fall behind in pay once again. This is something CEO Parker has stated would not happen.

Retro Pay: Company Negotiators have flat out insulted our members with their demand for a zero retro payout and have offered a “bonus” that will not cover the missing payday loan they are asking of nearly three quarters of the Association Membership. Remember, retro is a one-time payment to our members for the labor we provide that earns billions of dollars for this company. Our retro pay is no different than management’s stock buy backs of 3.8 billion in 2015, $4.5 billion in 2016, $1.4 billion in 2017 and $2 billion in 2018, except it is in the millions – NOT BILLIONS!

Payroll System: Management is also demanding our members who aren’t paid two weeks in arrears agree to a self-funded Company payday loan demand, so they can switch payroll systems. Obviously, we are fighting this demand since they must pay members weekly by law in some locations. We know the system will accommodate the way our members are currently paid, it just takes more effort on Management’s part to do. Management Negotiators have not offered any other solution to their payroll problem, other than demand our members accept the change to two weeks’ pay in arrears. Just this past week, they made another insulting attempt to convince us the switch was not as bad as we say. Later, Management finally admitted they are demanding TWU members, who are paid biweekly, would be funding an 80 hour payday loan to themselves in order for American to make the payroll change.

Scope Protection: We also remain apart on Scope Protection for our members. Management Negotiators continue to make demands that we accept their proposal that we do significantly less work in the future than we do today. These open items are Scope provisions that we currently have, and are fighting to protect, not additional items.

Vacation: Finally, we are so significantly apart on Vacation that every member should be disgusted with how American views us compared to Management. Their proposal insults all of us by demanding a 5th week of vacation at 25 years and a 6th week of vacation at 30 years, even though management enjoys a 5th week of vacation at 17 years “right now.” Our members have earned the 6th week of vacation at 25 years through the sacrifices made in the work we do.

We are in ongoing discussions with the NMB to solidify additional days and continue negotiations in person or by phone. We remain willing to meet anytime and anywhere, for as long as it is necessary, to achieve the long overdue JCBA our members deserve.

Please Post on All TWU- IAM Bulletin Boards

PDF Version: Association-Bulletin-12/13/19Download
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we were told last week "scope is 99.9% done the only hold up is automotive the company wants to bring in one ford certified mechanic" makes you wonder where the bull **** is.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I don’t agree, they clearly stated almost a year ago what our pay rates would be and they were the same or slightly better than our peers.
If this has changed is it because they don’t want pay us well.
I doubt that because how would that benefit them.

so, the company walking back 7% pay raise this, 3% pay raise that..now, a raise for fleet that matches delta and the company not wanting to pay retro for 14 months and counting..

that doesn't benefit the company??


at the same token, bigger raises for all in the assoc. doesn't mean more union dues revenues collected by the twu & iam? so, the assoc. wants this drag on for years and miss out on more union dues revenues?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Think Republic does apmost as much if not more than Envoy?

in my station, aa has about 500 flights a day. around 210 are mainline aa and 270 are eagle.

it's a safe bet that envoy has more fleet employees in my station than aa.

20 years ago, there were nearly 2,000 full-timers in my station. now, there are around 800+ non-c/c (ramp and freight) FT, after a sept-oct-nov rush to hire in my station.

think laa, not lus. dfw-mia-ord-jfk-lax...eagle/envoy is huge.

eagle/envoy replaced aa employees. this was the reason the aa pilots had a sick-out in 1999..company wanted to increase the seat threshold of what eagle pilots could fly.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I’m continuously amazed that AA farms out that much work, and that the TWU is/was okay with it (all the more so, given I agree with your earlier points about accountability & performance).

if it was that simple - that low labor costs trump all - then the company could get a high-school student to be the CFO.

it's not..and dl & ua have proven that quarter after quarter as aa is stuck in sub-mediocrity - the RJ service numbers are terrible. they don't generate the same revenue as mainline and in high-oil eras, most flights were losers on the push-back, the revenues did not equal the fuel cost.

 

[conehead777]

As I have stated before. The NMB can not force either side to do anything. They can request, ask or recommend but they can never force in mediation. The same was done in our nego's and the NMB simply said no propaganda and that she would like to view the updates before released, then after 2 or 3 updates from AMFA being cleared she said just release them as AMFA wasn't doing any propaganda but in fact was sending out the facts and truths of what was taking place at the nego table. Our co. on the other hand got the talk from the mediators about the propaganda they were sending out and was requested to stop or things might get leaned more so towards the other side, so they stopped finally.

That’s what I want what the company proposed the union proposed and the counters . But in my almost 35 years I know with the twu we will never get that kind of update as they like to cut deals to suit them.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

What makes you think a new CEO will give us leading contract?

you're right, no guarantee.

but, if the BOD boots the current leadership due to labor strife during unprecedented boom economic times, i'd think the next leadership team would understand the message - get a deal done.

 

[V.O. Reason]

Everyone needs to stop dreaming of getting a deal anytime soon.
It’s quite clear this group of negotiators have no idea what they are doing, not only that while I don’t think the company is being as fair to us as they should be we are clearly at a disadvantage thanks to the court issue.
What I’ve seen is this Ass thinks they will stall as long as they can and until the Ass is dissolved via a card drive and vote there is no deal and will be no deal in the future so continue to enjoy being the 4th highest paid in the industry and there is plenty of blame to go around on this

 

[NYer]

in my station, aa has about 500 flights a day. around 210 are mainline aa and 270 are eagle.

it's a safe bet that envoy has more fleet employees in my station than aa.

20 years ago, there were nearly 2,000 full-timers in my station. now, there are around 800+ non-c/c (ramp and freight) FT, after a sept-oct-nov rush to hire in my station.

think laa, not lus. dfw-mia-ord-jfk-lax...eagle/envoy is huge.

eagle/envoy replaced aa employees. this was the reason the aa pilots had a sick-out in 1999..company wanted to increase the seat threshold of what eagle pilots could fly.

That's not why they had the sick out. It was about the seniority integration with the Reno Air pilots. The airline took the pilots to court because of the sick out (job action) and were eventually fined $45M.

As a settlement of that fine, the LAA pilots agreed to the regional jets the airline was trying to get in exchange for the fine being forgiven

 

[NYer]

you're right, no guarantee.

but, if the BOD boots the current leadership due to labor strife during unprecedented boom economic times, i'd think the next leadership team would understand the message - get a deal done.

That's hilarious. Labor has been waiting for that CEO for more than 30 years.

 

[NYer]

Everyone needs to stop dreaming of getting a deal anytime soon.
It’s quite clear this group of negotiators have no idea what they are doing, not only that while I don’t think the company is being as fair to us as they should be we are clearly at a disadvantage thanks to the court issue.
What I’ve seen is this Ass thinks they will stall as long as they can and until the Ass is dissolved via a card drive and vote there is no deal and will be no deal in the future so continue to enjoy being the 4th highest paid in the industry and there is plenty of blame to go around on this

They might be waiting, or hoping, for a take it or leave it scenario so they can just blame the airline and the NMB.

 

[robbedagain]

in my station, aa has about 500 flights a day. around 210 are mainline aa and 270 are eagle.

it's a safe bet that envoy has more fleet employees in my station than aa.

20 years ago, there were nearly 2,000 full-timers in my station. now, there are around 800+ non-c/c (ramp and freight) FT, after a sept-oct-nov rush to hire in my station.

think laa, not lus. dfw-mia-ord-jfk-lax...eagle/envoy is huge.

eagle/envoy replaced aa employees. this was the reason the aa pilots had a sick-out in 1999..company wanted to increase the seat threshold of what eagle pilots could fly.

Youre right with the LAA hubs

 

[swamt]

That’s what I want what the company proposed the union proposed and the counters . But in my almost 35 years I know with the twu we will never get that kind of update as they like to cut deals to suit them.

And you guys should have access to the co's proposals, counter proposals, and even counter to counter proposals. It really would stop all the rumors and misinformation if the asso. and co. would simply agree to allow the details to come out. What they both are afraid of is how negative the membership will react to the proposals and or what the asso. has agreed to.
As stated right in the asso's update that they would like to stop all the rumors, if they would release all details this would stop it and they know this. This is why AMFA is so transparent when it comes to nego's. Why this asso. is so stuck on leaving the membership in the dark for 4, going on 5 years now, is beyond pathetic.
Remember when some were asking why weren't the SWA mechs in an uproar about nego's? We were about the length it took but not about NOT knowing everything that was happening at the table as AMFA did give very detailed updates, as well as more info at the monthly meetings and info meetings held at work with the co. blessing for AMFA to give regular updated meetings during the timeframe of our nego's.
All of our nego's updates are wide open for viewing at AMFA National website. You guys can & would experience the same kind of transparency once you guys get AMFA in.
Conehead, I know you already know all this. My point here is to show the huge differences in the updates and information being shared between these two very, very different unions representation during an extremely important time of nego's.
Keep up the good work on the card drive...