American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Paul Too]

As long as Parker and Isom continue to hold there current positions, We won't see our eagerly anticipated Industry Leading Contract....What's even more amazing is even after the release of the current update, there are still members out there from AA and LUS that want to vote whatever the Company is trying to sell us in..........

want to call for a vote for whatever The company is trying to sell us........

 

[CremaDiLimone]

i understand that the twu filed for mediation and wants the NMB to help talks between envoy ramp and aa. the twu obviously remembers what parker said; "the nmb has the tools to bring the 2 sides together".

another unnecessary mess for aa. just get it over with...decouple from envoy - have aa work RJs in the hubs. starting pay isn't too far off and aa will have much more motivated/dedicated service.

give us an ILC and then hold us accountable. you want to sleep or play cards as your bags burn, then you're fired. you'll find lots of non-sleepy people who will work and do a good job for the light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel $35/hr.

otherwise, you pretend to pay them and they will pretend to work. bribing them with pizza twice a week or frequent overtime doesn't cut it when you earn $15/hr after 10 years.

total mess.

 

[Kev3188]

That's what DL did in ATL- took over all the work from ASA, but also hired many/most of them on as well. it worked for the exact reasons you mentioned. Mainline now works RJ's in almost all the hubs (CRJ's are still farmed out in MSP/DTW, as well as a small portion in SLC).

 

[robbedagain]

That's what DL did in ATL- took over all the work from ASA, but also hired many/most of them on as well. it worked for the exact reasons you mentioned. Mainline now works RJ's in almost all the hubs (CRJ's are still farmed out in MSP/DTW, as well as a small portion in SLC).

In DCA the crj 700 n 900 we do n occasion a 200. I think once the new terminal is complete all crjs will be handled by Piedmont (EN)

 

[V.O. Reason]

As long as Parker and Isom continue to hold there current positions, We won't see our eagerly anticipated Industry Leading Contract....What's even more amazing is even after the release of the current update, there are still members out there from AA and LUS that want to vote whatever the Company is trying to sell us in..........

So then how would you go about this hoping for the company to change their mind.
So that means we get no improvements whatsoever even if they aren’t what we had hopped for.
The only option is to hope for an impasse to be called and then go to arbitration.
Again further delaying a deal.
We need to vote on whatever if it’s voted down than so be it and then it could force the company to make changes.
I for one think the reason we are seeing less is because the union asked for and got issues that the company changed their offer for pay. So I blame the union for most of what we are seeing
But you know what who cares because we won’t see an agreement for a long time and the company just laughs all the way to the bank
Our leaders are fools as are many of those willing to hold out for something that won’t come

 

[1AA]

It seems it's all Parker and Isom that will have the last say. Those two are not personally engaged in face to face negotiations. I know they both can't be there all the time but this should be a top priority labor issue for the company. The decision makers should be available in a moments notice for a yea or nay on any proposal made or parts of.
I feel AA is dragging their feet intentionally for a reason.
My opinion is they don't want to deal with all these groups at once. They would rather knit pick through each one they want.
The company doesn't want to offer the same benefits or scope to ramp and Aircraft Maintenance. The association on the other hand wants the same for all. Example is 7 weeks VC is now standard for AMT'S. It's not for ramp. Unfortunately it's a me too attitude for the association.

 

[V.O. Reason]

It seems it's all Parker and Isom that will have the last say. Those two are not personally engaged in face to face negotiations. I know they both can't be there all the time but this should be a top priority labor issue for the company. The decision makers should be available in a moments notice for a yea or nay on any proposal made or parts of.
I feel AA is dragging their feet intentionally for a reason.
My opinion is they don't want to deal with all these groups at once. They would rather knit pick through each one they want.
The company doesn't want to offer the same benefits or scope to ramp and Aircraft Maintenance. The association on the other hand wants the same for all. Example is 7 weeks VC is now standard for AMT'S. It's not for ramp. Unfortunately it's a me too attitude for the association.

I would agree with much of this and this is the problem
Scope for one group isn’t the same for others to me that is the major difference
My understanding too is that Isom or Parker were at one of the sessions back a month or so ago. So what happened who shot off their mouth and tanked this whole thing.
I’m betting the union.
So again here we are no deal in site just BS updates telling us lies about meetings happening
I don’t how these leaders on either side sleep at night knowing how much they are screwing us out here trying to keep this company running.
Personally I think something needs to change but what who knows

 

[CremaDiLimone]

That's what DL did in ATL- took over all the work from ASA, but also hired many/most of them on as well. it worked for the exact reasons you mentioned. Mainline now works RJ's in almost all the hubs (CRJ's are still farmed out in MSP/DTW, as well as a small portion in SLC).

In DCA the crj 700 n 900 we do n occasion a 200. I think once the new terminal is complete all crjs will be handled by Piedmont (EN)

ua does it's RJs in hubs. you guys have confirmed that dl and lus do RJ work. i know al says lus did and does RJs in lga.

aa, already the outsource king with 'envoy'.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The company doesn't want to offer the same benefits or scope to ramp and Aircraft Maintenance. The association on the other hand wants the same for all. Example is 7 weeks VC is now standard for AMT'S. It's not for ramp. Unfortunately it's a me too attitude for the association.

i must have misunderstood what i was told -

i was told that the company offered 1 additional week of vc to AMTs and nothing for fleet. this occurred 2 years ago.

the assoc. balked and stated it's demand that all get 1 additional week vc. to show their displeasure, the assoc. stopped negotiating for AMTs until the company acquiesced and said ok, each get an additional week.

i get 5 weeks, the max for fleet. we lost 1 week in 1995, 1 week in 2003 and 1 week in 2011. if fleet does get 1 more week vc, i'll be on 6 weeks vc.

i don't know anything about 7 weeks vc.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

My understanding too is that Isom or Parker were at one of the sessions back a month or so ago. So what happened who shot off their mouth and tanked this whole thing.
I’m betting the union.

right. $50 billion a year in revenue company and it's run by 13 year olds that get offended. at the very worst - they are supposed to be the adults in the room.

this came out on friday, delta talking about 2020. 2020, another very profitable year for the airlines.

Thriving on the back of solid air travel demand, Delta Air Lines, Inc. DAL provided an upbeat forecast for 2020, following which shares of the company gained approximately 3% in yesterday’s trading session.

For next year, this Atlanta-GA based carrier anticipates earnings per share of $6.75-1 $7.75. The mid-point ($7.25) of the guided range lies above the Zacks Consensus Estimate of $6.98. Additionally, the airline predicts revenues of $49 billion for 2020, indicating a rise of 4-6% year over year. The Zacks Consensus Estimate for the same stands at $48.89 billion, suggesting 4.2% growth. The company’s free cash flow target stands at $4 billion for the period.

the bottom line is that aa doesn't want to pay you. they are able to sleep at night because they don't know who you are and don't care.

 

[swamt]

Well I for one don’t believe these are all open items, especially since way back earlier in the year the company produced actual numbers on many of these items on Jetnet
Yes sure those could have been BS but why would AA expose themselves with that kind of info if it want part of what was on the table
The ASS has harmed each and every one of us to the point of major lost wages and benefits that we can now never recover from.
These guys need to go and each and every person involved in this BS from the NMB to the ASS and the company is to blame and personally I don’t give a **** anymore and I only hope AA survives long enough so I can retire because what they and all these people have done is create a bitter and down trodden workforce so thanks for nothing AA and all you rich ass union officials for ruining what once was a good company and work group
A new union by the way won’t solve a damn thing

Good post VO. It shows that it came from the heart. Your post is one of the big reasons to rid yourselves of these industrialized unions. I would never claim that replacing a union will fix all your problems, but I will say should you guys be successful bringing in AMFA you will solve the no info, miscommunications and always being left in the dark. You also will solve a long awaited problem at AA for the mechs for decades. Since AMFA allows observers at the nego's it also solves all rumors and lies even being spread by this asso from the table as well as the co.
No hidden agendas with AMFA as they are so transparent. I still remember being overwhelmed with all the votes we had to do after bringing in AMFA as we the membership have way, way more involvement on how AMFA is ran. It was overwhelming but wel,well worth every bit of it.
Just to give you one example of how much the membership controls; our local officers can not spend anything in excess of 2-300 bucks in a month without the memberships say so.
Again AMFA won't solve everything but it is a way better QOL having AMFA represent us instead of the teamsters, TWU or IAM, and yes we did have the IAM at one time also...

What ever happened to an Industry Leading Contract? We drifted so far away that we are willing to accept a half A$$ contract. What the heck is happening to the membership and the union leadership?

My opinion is that the membership is getting worn down, tired of waiting, etc... The co. is purposely dragging these nego's out (just like SWA did with us) in order to get the membership waiting for so long that they throw their hands in the air and just vote in the first offer because they are sick and tired of waiting for their raises.
On the union leadership, they are between a rock and hard place to say the least. They are facing a huge large sum of fines and sanctions that will be solely on the asso. so now they (union leaders) are trying to "soften the blow" if ya will. Already started by adjusting and lowering the pay scale ask, the scope will be "adjusted" too, not to mention other changes that no one even knows about as they haven't once shared any info on what changes have taken on any of the articles as of yet.
I really hope you guys can stay united and strong, and be successful in replacing this pathetic asso.

 

[Buck]

What ever happened to an Industry Leading Contract? We drifted so far away that we are willing to accept a half A$$ contract. What the heck is happening to the membership and the union leadership?

The unions got their ass whipped by the ASSociation and AFL-CIO so bad they figured they would just repeat the last 35 years.

 

[V.O. Reason]

right. $50 billion a year in revenue company and it's run by 13 year olds that get offended. at the very worst - they are supposed to be the adults in the room.

this came out on friday, delta talking about 2020. 2020, another very profitable year for the airlines.



the bottom line is that aa doesn't want to pay you. they are able to sleep at night because they don't know who you are and don't care.

I don’t agree, they clearly stated almost a year ago what our pay rates would be and they were the same or slightly better than our peers.
If this has changed is it because they don’t want pay us well.
I doubt that because how would that benefit them.
I think the change if it’s true was because the union negotiators wanted something in return for lower year over year increases
That is most likely where the truth is.
I don’t trust anything the Association tells us.
They tell us half truths don’t give us a voice by allowing a vote.
The company is the only one that put all their cards on the table with the Jetnet info.
We are screwed and it’s not because they don’t want to pay us it’s because the ass hole negotiators are stalling

 

[swamt]

Talks between the Association, Management, and the NMB are ongoing. Since that is happening an update will not be released at this time, but will once the talks break off an update will be released. Rather than put out something as talks are taking place, the Association will do so at the conclusion of these ongoing discussions, which may continue through the weekend as long as progress is being made. When I have more info, I will send it out.

Safe to say they did not talk into nor thru the weekend. The update below shows that it was written 12-13-19 which is Fri. And as they stated, "there will be no update until talks are done." Just more false info and lies from the asso. to keep the membership strung along. The lies just keep flowing because they are feeling the rather large pressure of the energy of this card drive this time around. People are "finally" sick and tired.
here's the last update after talks ended Fri. 13th...

Sisters and Brothers,

Over the past several weeks, the Association, the NMB and American Airlines have been working to reach the tentative agreement our members have been promised and rightfully deserve. As most of you know, we also agreed to limit communications in a manner that would not create more rumor or inuendo from either side.

Management Negotiators are frequently absent from these negotiations which was the primary reason for not continuing face-to-face negotiations this week. We also had requested that the NMB allow us to negotiate the week of Thanksgiving, but the Company Negotiators passed on that opportunity as well. We have yet to see Robert Isom or Doug Parker, who we believe are calling the shots from Texas, engage in any negotiating session since the day negotiations started.

With that said, we felt it was imperative at this point to provide a fact-based update to our members about some of the key items that remain open. Below represents a few of the outrageous items Management Negotiators have not provided acceptable solutions to. Please keep in mind that while you may not see an issue listed, others are open, and we cannot agree to a Tentative Agreement until they are all resolved.

Compensation: Management negotiators have walked backwards from their previous public statements and are now only offering the Pay of Delta or Southwest, and with managements 2% out year raises, our members will fall behind in pay once again. This is something CEO Parker has stated would not happen.

Retro Pay: Company Negotiators have flat out insulted our members with their demand for a zero retro payout and have offered a “bonus” that will not cover the missing payday loan they are asking of nearly three quarters of the Association Membership. Remember, retro is a one-time payment to our members for the labor we provide that earns billions of dollars for this company. Our retro pay is no different than management’s stock buy backs of 3.8 billion in 2015, $4.5 billion in 2016, $1.4 billion in 2017 and $2 billion in 2018, except it is in the millions – NOT BILLIONS!

Payroll System: Management is also demanding our members who aren’t paid two weeks in arrears agree to a self-funded Company payday loan demand, so they can switch payroll systems. Obviously, we are fighting this demand since they must pay members weekly by law in some locations. We know the system will accommodate the way our members are currently paid, it just takes more effort on Management’s part to do. Management Negotiators have not offered any other solution to their payroll problem, other than demand our members accept the change to two weeks’ pay in arrears. Just this past week, they made another insulting attempt to convince us the switch was not as bad as we say. Later, Management finally admitted they are demanding TWU members, who are paid biweekly, would be funding an 80 hour payday loan to themselves in order for American to make the payroll change.

Scope Protection: We also remain apart on Scope Protection for our members. Management Negotiators continue to make demands that we accept their proposal that we do significantly less work in the future than we do today. These open items are Scope provisions that we currently have, and are fighting to protect, not additional items.

Vacation: Finally, we are so significantly apart on Vacation that every member should be disgusted with how American views us compared to Management. Their proposal insults all of us by demanding a 5th week of vacation at 25 years and a 6th week of vacation at 30 years, even though management enjoys a 5th week of vacation at 17 years “right now.” Our members have earned the 6th week of vacation at 25 years through the sacrifices made in the work we do.

We are in ongoing discussions with the NMB to solidify additional days and continue negotiations in person or by phone. We remain willing to meet anytime and anywhere, for as long as it is necessary, to achieve the long overdue JCBA our members deserve.

Please Post on All TWU- IAM Bulletin Boards

PDF Version: Association-Bulletin-12/13/19Download
Share this:

 

[robbedagain]

ua does it's RJs in hubs. you guys have confirmed that dl and lus do RJ work. i know al says lus did and does RJs in lga.

aa, already the outsource king with 'envoy'.

Think Republic does apmost as much if not more than Envoy?