American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[1AA]

I normally don't bother checking personal emails on this forum. Sometimes I don't read anything here for weeks or months. So I decided to check an email I noticed was in my inbox since June 8th of this year. You wonder why the Weez is gone for now? Here is an email he sent me. It seems he was trying to edge me on into a battle of words. This is why I ignored him.

"So you’ve been trying to knock the TWU out since 1987. 32 years you’ve been trying.

Wow are you a loser."

And so you have it. I ignored him and he went away.

 

[bigjets]

So the guys here laughing at Tim, so tell me what the guys in the room have done? Oh right they have not done anything .
There is no movement or any such thing, Only threats and hard talk. We know what’s out there from the company, smart changes to what union wants make sense, but instead they would rather play hardball and force us to wait even longer. Maybe even 2 more years to even have a chance at a vote, to this member that is unacceptable

We don’t hear tough talk any longer, just emails from ass. Saying to work as normal, “no hot summer” no talk of next negotiations, seems like nothing is scheduled except for when will fine be levied (if there is a fine)

We pay (forced to pay) double what the FAs pay and we vote on nothing, they received contract improvements 5 years ago.

 

[1AA]

We don’t hear tough talk any longer, just emails from ass. Saying to work as normal, “no hot summer” no talk of next negotiations, seems like nothing is scheduled except for when will fine be levied (if there is a fine)

We pay (forced to pay) double what the FAs pay and we vote on nothing, they received contract improvements 5 years ago.

I believe you just described the difference between a Class and Craft union versus an Indusrtial union. One represents one group of workers while the other doesn't. I believe the association represents about 11 work groups. The Flight Dispatchers are the real winners here.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I believe you just described the difference between a Class and Craft union versus an Indusrtial union. One represents one group of workers while the other doesn't. I believe the association represents about 11 work groups. The Flight Dispatchers are the real winners here.

why are mx so afraid of a craft union?

 

[1AA]

why are mx so afraid of a craft union?

When you figure it out let us all know. I'm on a countdown to getting out of this screwed up career.

 

[1AA]

Somethings definitely wrong when negotiations are into the fourth year and there are contracts out there that have shorter durations than that.

 

[conehead777]

[

why are mx so afraid of a craft union?

The twu lies . In Tulsa if you vote AMFA you will lose your weekends off . They lost that in 12 anyway. Another lie if you vote AMFA in you will lose the contract that’s in place. If you vote in AMFA there will be more outsourcing they said look at what AMFA gave up at swa they lost that with the ibt. People that work on millions dollars airplanes believed those lies instead of researching. Then the company and twu when we had enough cards turned in the seniority list with dead and others that should not be on there. Plus the lies told to facilities maintenance that group killed our drive. Instead of them look at again swa where facilities has separate negotiations and contract. The twu are great at lies just like we would vote on the association I knew that wasn’t going to happen. But I hope amts wake up now especially with the union throwing mechanics under the bus in court. I hope these new hire amts get rid of the twu if us current guys that are 55 and over don’t get it before we retire I know those amts are upset they lost there flex pay hope they will rise up and get AMFA are amp . As long as us amts stay in the twu were hurting our profession with all that the twu has gave up. AMFA got us our raise in 01 now the company offered us there raise now in 19. You know I understand scope and all. But that’s all they talk about I want to hear what the association proposals are on pay and benefits why are they not fighting for that 7 weeks of vacation why don’t i here them fighting for swa plus 7 percent like Parker is on record as saying. . Why amts want sign cards so we can get a union that will fight for the whole package pay benefits scope etc etc . The association is only worried about there union dues. I just don’t get why we are own worst enemy. As much as we pay the twu to give up everything and they did that in like 2 are 3 weeks in 03. Another lie in 12 was vote the bk contract in are the judge will throw it out. Well the pilots did and the judge told the company and union to work harder on a agreement they did pilots got a better deal. And another one in 03 should of got snap back . with all these things and people want sign cards. I bet if the twu agreed if the company wanted to give up day trades day off trades I bet we would get cards signed. But guys and gals continue to take this crap union. And voting in new local presidents do nothing as the international is in charge. I don’t understand why we are paying a union to represent us and allow them to make a constitution that dose not benefit the members. So even if we had a say in the international we would need to change the constitution to benefit us. Like AMFA members can recall there leaders they voted on there constitution. The members are in charge.

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

When you figure it out let us all know. I'm on a countdown to getting out of this screwed up career.

You and me both, brother.

The TWU has done nothing but F it up!

 

[Tim Nelson]

[

The twu lies . In Tulsa if you vote AMFA you will lose your weekends off . They lost that in 12 anyway. Another lie if you vote AMFA in you will lose the contract that’s in place. If you vote in AMFA there will be more outsourcing they said look at what AMFA gave up at swa they lost that with the ibt. People that work on millions dollars airplanes believed those lies instead of researching. Then the company and twu when we had enough cards turned in the seniority list with dead and others that should not be on there. Plus the lies told to facilities maintenance that group killed our drive. Instead of them look at again swa where facilities has separate negotiations and contract. The twu are great at lies just like we would vote on the association I knew that wasn’t going to happen. But I hope amts wake up now especially with the union throwing mechanics under the bus in court. I hope these new hire amts get rid of the twu if us current guys that are 55 and over don’t get it before we retire I know those amts are upset they lost there flex pay hope they will rise up and get AMFA are amp . As long as us amts stay in the twu were hurting our profession with all that the twu has gave up. AMFA got us our raise in 01 now the company offered us there raise now in 19. You know I understand scope and all. But that’s all they talk about I want to hear what the association proposals are on pay and benefits why are they not fighting for that 7 weeks of vacation why don’t i here them fighting for swa plus 7 percent like Parker is on record as saying. . Why amts want sign cards so we can get a union that will fight for the whole package pay benefits scope etc etc . The association is only worried about there union dues. I just don’t get why we are own worst enemy. As much as we pay the twu to give up everything and they did that in like 2 are 3 weeks in 03. Another lie in 12 was vote the bk contract in are the judge will throw it out. Well the pilots did and the judge told the company and union to work harder on a agreement they did pilots got a better deal. And another one in 03 should of got snap back . with all these things and people want sign cards. I bet if the twu agreed if the company wanted to give up day trades day off trades I bet we would get cards signed. But guys and gals continue to take this crap union. And voting in new local presidents do nothing as the international is in charge. I don’t understand why we are paying a union to represent us and allow them to make a constitution that dose not benefit the members. So even if we had a say in the international we would need to change the constitution to benefit us. Like AMFA members can recall there leaders they voted on there constitution. The members are in charge.

people are willingly ignorant. Morons and overrated. Thats how the twu survives.
Otoh, amfa did F up the card filing. They blew smoke up your arses or just werent prepared. The company went by the rules and amfa never filed on time. That was on amfa.

 

[B737 driver]

people are willingly ignorant. Morons and overrated. Thats how the twu survives.
Otoh, amfa did F up the card filing. They blew smoke up your arses or just werent prepared. The company went by the rules and amfa never filed on time. That was on amfa.

I thought that had more to do with the Teamsters?

 

[1AA]

people are willingly ignorant. Morons and overrated. Thats how the twu survives.
Otoh, amfa did F up the card filing. They blew smoke up your arses or just werent prepared. The company went by the rules and amfa never filed on time. That was on amfa.

Actually our inhouse organizers misplayed the chess game. The company, IBT and TWU conspired to cut us off. No company has ever submitted a list of eligible employees to the NMB the same day of a filing. The organizers were caught sleeping from something that was never done before. Someone should have seen it coming. Too bad. Unfortunately we had many other opportunities but the non signers were the problems when the excuses made no sense and their reasons were lies and misconceptions of the truth that they did not want to believe. It's all too late now. IAM guys wont sign cards, title 2 guys wont sign cards and there are many more that still believe it's not a good time because we are close to a JCBA. How close are we? Mediated talks have stopped. A TRO against the TWU and IAM filed in federal court. Sounds like we have grown further apart from traditional negotiations. Now with a decision laying in the balance on the TRO and lawsuit who knows what will come out of negotiations that have dragged on over four years.

 

[Tim Nelson]

my understan

Actually our inhouse organizers misplayed the chess game. The company, IBT and TWU conspired to cut us off. No company has ever submitted a list of eligible employees to the NMB the same day of a filing. The organizers were caught sleeping from something that was never done before. Someone should have seen it coming. Too bad. Unfortunately we had many other opportunities but the non signers were the problems when the excuses made no sense and their reasons were lies and misconceptions of the truth that they did not want to believe. It's all too late now. IAM guys wont sign cards, title 2 guys wont sign cards and there are many more that still believe it's not a good time because we are close to a JCBA. How close are we? Mediated talks have stopped. A TRO against the TWU and IAM filed in federal court. Sounds like we have grown further apart from traditional negotiations. Now with a decision laying in the balance on the TRO and lawsuit who knows what will come out of negotiations that have dragged on over four years.

My understanding is that the company will treat any PRO and massive fine against the Ass SEPARATELY from JCBA.
LMFAO. Fly mentioned that his gut feeling was that if the company waived the fines for a jcba then the Pilots and FAs would see the company as soft and possibly follow similar concerted effort strategy.

If that is the case then your mx group wont have a choice but to vote in amfa (AMP seems unclear) otherwise, the Ass will be dead.

Imo as long as a PRO is in place, then the company prolly wouldnt mind keeping the current contracts in place to save millions. And any "morale" problems could face terminations since the union advocated for that and a judge order could give credance that the company has some cleaning up to do. Many could be terminated.
Not saying its right but our knuclehead union reps walked right into an uppercut from a bigger man.

Basically, even without an immediate fine, the union is cuffed and dead with a PRO and Gary Petersons game plan will be a complete failure. He just didnt listen.

 

[NYer]

[
Another lie in 12 was vote the bk contract in are the judge will throw it out. Well the pilots did and the judge told the company and union to work harder on a agreement they did pilots got a better deal.

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - A judge on Tuesday ruled that AMR Corp, the bankrupt parent of American Airlines, can abrogate its collective bargaining agreement with its unionized pilots, signaling the likely imposition by AMR of unilateral work terms." -September 4, 2012

 

[Vortilon]

I thought you thought the company dont give a damn?
I dont think the company is anyone's friend. It is a business, and if it gets a Perm Injunction then i would think that it meant business and that it would have a free shot to terminate anyone not doing its job. The union would most likely side with the company and keep you fired instead of allowing the tab to go up.

Samuelson said he is bringing the Bus mentality to the airlines and he made a catacalismic mistake.

The rabbit hole has an unknown depth at this time.

Its over Johnny.

Well, the company probably doesn't give a damn, even though I don't recall saying that.
On another subject, you have been suggesting that the Association could pass on the judges fines to the membership. Out of curiosity I looked it up, and it turns out we cannot be fined. Read the last few lines of the last paragraph. This is right out of the Taft - Hartley Act.

TITLE III [Title 29, Chapter 7, Subchapter IV, United States Code] suits by and against labor organizations Sec. 301. [Sec. 185.] (a) [Venue, amount, and citizenship] Suits for violation of contracts between an employer and a labor organization representing employees in an industry affecting commerce as defined in this Act [chapter], or between any such labor organization, may be brought in any district court of the United States having jurisdiction of the parties, without respect to the amount in controversy or without regard to the citizenship of the parties. (b) [Responsibility for acts of agent; entity for purposes of suit; enforcement of money judgments] Any labor organization which represents employees in an industry affecting commerce as defined in this Act [chapter] and any employer whose activities affect commerce as defined in this Act [chapter] shall be bound by the acts of its agents. Any such labor organization may sue or be sued as an entity and in behalf of the employees whom it represents in the courts of the United States. Any money judgment against a labor organization in a district court of the United States shall be enforceable only against the organization as an entity and against its assets, and shall not be enforceable against any individual member or his assets.

 

[swamt]

Terminate guys for doing their jobs? Good luck with that, every job is different, so passing judgement on a guy for writing up something broke or missing on an aircraft would be real hard. As far as passing on some sort of fine to the membership through payroll deduction, I'm certain that would sure motivate guys to work even harder.

I can't believe he said what he said. "The union made a strong argument that the company needs to terminate the employees they feel did a slowdown." Why would anyone support such an action upon another fellow employee? And he has no clue what the write-ups are about that caused delays and cancellations. If they are legit and safety of flight issues, then nobody will get terminated. If they do you will have what just happened over here at SWA with all the employees involved returning to their jobs with full back pay as well as a penalty. The FAA punished SWA for doing this. The employees sued and won. Which very well maybe the reasons AA is holding off on terminating so quickly like SWA did, IT could come back and haunt them thru the FAA. To wish this or say it's a "good argument" is just not right. Trust me, no one wants to be out of a job while waiting for this pathetic asso. "TRY" to save their job for them. They would be out for about a full year even if they did get their job back, that would just suk to go thru...