American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

we absolutely should, but the company hasn't changed any of their wage proposals for fleet...except $3k more 'bonus' for lus fleet - due to the 'pain of transitioning to laa insurance'. an insurance that laa has endured without any bonus payments.

wages and current aa proposal - 3% more than delta. it's the same. company isn't budging.

so, you're saying what i'm saying...there's more $$ somewhere for fleet and you're expecting 3% more than united's december 2019 raise to $32.01/hr.

company has $7 billion laying around. they have said anything over $7 billion, they wish to give to shareholders. i'll take a few hundred million of that and strive for a $10k signing bonus.

they can keep their profit sharing and change the formula for the pilots and F/As...that's inevitable.

It's negotiations. They'll leave something in the pot to sweeten the thing at the end. They've maintained it would 3% ahead of who's on top. At the time of their written proposal that was Delta. It has since become UA and in December, they go to $32.

That'll be the target.

 

[1AA]

OK. Vote No. Then what?

Union will impose a contract.

 

[robbedagain]

It's negotiations. They'll leave something in the pot to sweeten the thing at the end. They've maintained it would 3% ahead of who's on top. At the time of their written proposal that was Delta. It has since become UA and in December, they go to $32.

That'll be the target.

So basically we cld be looking at 33.00 just 4 cents ahead of UA? Question is will we get to vot on a proposal before the other groups start talking?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

It's negotiations. They'll leave something in the pot to sweeten the thing at the end. They've maintained it would 3% ahead of who's on top. At the time of their written proposal that was Delta. It has since become UA and in December, they go to $32.

That'll be the target.

ok, someone needs to tell aa, because the company is 6 time zones behind.

united passed up delta last december, the company's last jetnet proposal from a few months ago still says delta +3%.

so far, haven't seen anything resembling a sweetener for laa fleet. laa fleet alone, is 1/3 of the assoc.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

So basically we cld be looking at 33.00 just 4 cents ahead of UA? Question is will we get to vot on a proposal before the other groups start talking?

united will be at:

$32.01/hr december 2019
$32.65/hr december 2020
$33.30/hr december 2021...topped out rate

all this, not counting differential, which we don't get now.

 

[AANOTOK]

I know it's popular to moan and blame the Association, but I think it's the people not the concept that has failed so far.

NYer, I really don't understand your point. A. It's not a moan, it's a fact...stating someone is moaning because you disagree with their perspective is well, reminiscent of the past (if you know what I mean). B. Blame the people if you will, and that's perfectly fine. It's the people who form the Association and the Association was a failure. I realize you are an Association supporter and you will defend it (the concept) no matter what. This was doomed to fail from day one in many of our opinions (from day one) and we didn't care or even know who the folks were that was going to be the voice and/or negotiators of the Association, especially from the IAM side. Our prediction, an overwhelming correct call. Of course now after the fact you can state people bad, concept good...so do we change out people and continue down this road to see if indeed you are correct? That, in my opinion is the only way to prove if you are correct. Otherwise, I was.

Finally NYer, you state that the Association is further along than we would have been if the TWU were the controlling party...how you can say that when we are now damn near the end of the process (and I use end loosely as it still may be a while) is beyond me. Obviously that is speculation on your part because you have nothing to back that comment up. I on the other hand do have a comment about the Association that has played out as predicted, and it's not a moan, it's a fact...just sayin!

 

[NYer]

Union will impose a contract.

Nope. They'll have a vote.

 

[NYer]

So basically we cld be looking at 33.00 just 4 cents ahead of UA? Question is will we get to vot on a proposal before the other groups start talking?

UA is currently at $31.23 and they'll go to $32.01 in December.

 

[NYer]

ok, someone needs to tell aa, because the company is 6 time zones behind.

united passed up delta last december, the company's last jetnet proposal from a few months ago still says delta +3%.

so far, haven't seen anything resembling a sweetener for laa fleet. laa fleet alone, is 1/3 of the assoc.

How much more are you looking for?

 

[NYer]

NYer, I really don't understand your point. A. It's not a moan, it's a fact...stating someone is moaning because you disagree with their perspective is well, reminiscent of the past (if you know what I mean). B. Blame the people if you will, and that's perfectly fine. It's the people who form the Association and the Association was a failure. I realize you are an Association supporter and you will defend it (the concept) no matter what. This was doomed to fail from day one in many of our opinions (from day one) and we didn't care or even know who the folks were that was going to be the voice and/or negotiators of the Association, especially from the IAM side. Our prediction, an overwhelming correct call. Of course now after the fact you can state people bad, concept good...so do we change out people and continue down this road to see if indeed you are correct? That, in my opinion is the only way to prove if you are correct. Otherwise, I was.

Finally NYer, you state that the Association is further along than we would have been if the TWU were the controlling party...how you can say that when we are now damn near the end of the process (and I use end loosely as it still may be a while) is beyond me. Obviously that is speculation on your part because you have nothing to back that comment up. I on the other hand do have a comment about the Association that has played out as predicted, and it's not a moan, it's a fact...just sayin!

Most were against the Association from the very beginning, so to them this current state just reinforced their belief.

The alternative isn't better than the current incarnation because we'd be fighting amongst ourselves. The IAM Members would be more vigorous in fighting to keep what they value. They wouldn't just be sitting on the sidelines like they're doing now.

The TA'd language is about 80% IAM language. There is NO way the TWU as a standalone would agree to that. The Company, obviously, prefers that language so we probably wouldn't have agreed to many of the things already TA'd.

These negotiations seems to have people eyeing the TWU and the IAM but what drives negotiations is what the Company wants. During these negotiating they seem to want IAM language.

You think a standalone TWU would go for that? I don't.

 

[NYer]

ok, someone needs to tell aa, because the company is 6 time zones behind.

united passed up delta last december, the company's last jetnet proposal from a few months ago still says delta +3%.

so far, haven't seen anything resembling a sweetener for laa fleet. laa fleet alone, is 1/3 of the assoc.

That proposal for compensation is from 3.16.18. It was before the December 2018 UA raise.

At the end, we should be 3% ahead whoever is on top, which is currently UA.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

How much more are you looking for?

wages?

considering the scope concessions AND not going after increased profit sharing to & for the company during unprecedented airline boom times..

i'll take 3% more than united's scheduled december 2019 raise to $32.01/hr.

hypothetically, let's say jan. 1 2020, is DOS.

that takes us to $32.97/hr on DOS. i'll also take the lower (less than ticket agents) differential proposed by the company.

5 yr. deal, 2.5% a year. apprx. an .82 cent raise the 1st year. we'll allow the company to give us yearly and not 6 month raises. concession, right there.

TOS of scale would take us to $37/hr.

i'd also look to substantially boost the signing bonus to $300 for every year worked. as mentioned, the company has $7 billion just sitting around. what's a few hundred million when tieing us up for 5 years and also getting the work concessions and language the company wants?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

That proposal for compensation is from 3.16.18. It was before the December 2018 UA raise.

At the end, we should be 3% ahead whoever is on top, which is currently UA.

what the company proposed to the AMTs was a modification of 3.16.18. what the company proposed to all assoc. lus members of an additional $3k on top of everyone getting $3k 'bonus', was also a modification of 3.16.18.

i have not seen any modification for increased fleet wages nor any late piece of candy modification for laa fleet.

was that an oversight by the company? i don't believe so.

 

[NYer]

wages?

considering the scope concessions AND not going after increased profit sharing to & for the company during unprecedented airline boom times..

i'll take 3% more than united's scheduled december 2019 raise to $32.01/hr.

hypothetically, let's say jan. 1 2020, is DOS.

that takes us to $32.97/hr on DOS. i'll also take the lower (less than ticket agents) differential proposed by the company.

5 yr. deal, 2.5% a year. apprx. an .82 cent raise the 1st year. we'll allow the company to give us yearly and not 6 month raises. concession, right there.

TOS of scale would take us to $37/hr.

i'd also look to substantially boost the signing bonus to $300 for every year worked. as mentioned, the company has $7 billion just sitting around. what's a few hundred million when tieing us up for 5 years and also getting the work concessions and language the company wants?

What's a few hundred million dollars?

The problem is that under the RLA We don't have the mechanism to force the issue to get those kinds of things above the already proposed 401K boost, pay raises, differentials, extra VC, more sicks days, more holidays with higher premiums, even the small CC premium.

A bonus of $300 per year is a large, large number that I'm sure would be prioritized in other areas, if available.

 

[NYer]

what the company proposed to the AMTs was a modification of 3.16.18. what the company proposed to all assoc. lus members of an additional $3k on top of everyone getting $3k 'bonus', was also a modification of 3.16.18.

i have not seen any modification for increased fleet wages nor any late piece of candy modification for laa fleet.

was that an oversight by the company? i don't believe so.

It's not an oversight, it's just that the concentration is with the mechanics as their issues are front and center and they're being accused of a job action. Announcing the raise for them is meant to away the opinions to throw side and away from the mechanic talking points.

At the end of the day, we'll be 3% ahead of whomever is in front at the time.