American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

Anyone that reads these forums should be pissed off. If your fleet service and they are deliberatley lying that is a problem. If your in maintenance are they lying? At what point did they stop and or start lying?
The association clearly has to wide and diverse amount of workgroups to effectively represent and negotiate effectively.
When they throw their membership under the bus for self preservation its time for them to go.
I get the impression that you and others are starting to get frustrated at the make up and organization of the association.

Think the Association, as an idea, is better than the alternative, a representation fight.

The execution had been abysmal, that's more about the people then the structure.

 

[NYer]

And they knew they pulled a fast one in maintaining representation of their work group after the merger.

I'd argue we'd be further behind if it was just the TWU negotiating. I say that because it seems the Company preferred IAM language. A straight TWU negotiations would never allow that. Agree?

If so, then you'd agree we wouldn't be this far along because we wouldn't have agreed to do much IAM language. We'd want 90% TWU language because that's what we're used to.

 

[dfw gen]

Think the Association, as an idea, is better than the alternative, a representation fight.

The execution had been abysmal, that's more about the people then the structure.

In theory yes. But from day one you are correct the execution has been piss poor abysmal. Unfortunatley its been based on lies and encouraged miscommunication. Its clearly about the money i.e. the dues.

 

[AANOTOK]

The problem is that if we were not sold out by the TWU (Garcia in particular) and I'm not saying we were, then their hands were definitely tied and their collective voices meant nothing. We are the majority and look where we sit...The Association is the opposite of unionism it appears...at the very least, the TWU has been outplayed and the Association has proven to be nothing more than a lying, greedy entity that will never be trusted. It is indeed time to get out of this sham.

 

[dfw gen]

There is no "solidarity" from the leadership. The iam only decided to climb on board when their sacred cow was about to be slaughtered. I.e. pension medical and catering. Now its their priority. Now they find themselves in an unenviable position. THAT THEY PUT THEMSELVES INTO.

 

[dfw gen]

The problem is that if we were not sold out by the TWU (Garcia in particular) and I'm not saying we were, then their hands were definitely tied and their collective voices meant nothing. We are the majority and look where we sit...The Association is the opposite of unionism it appears...at the very least, the TWU has been outplayed and the Association has proven to be nothing more than a lying, greedy entity that will never be trusted. It is indeed time to get out of this sham.

Garcia sold us out to his good friend and mentor Sito? Say it aint so...

 

[title 2]

I'd argue we'd be further behind if it was just the TWU negotiating. I say that because it seems the Company preferred IAM language. A straight TWU negotiations would never allow that Agree?

If so, then you'd agree we wouldn't be this far along because we wouldn't have agreed to do much IAM language. We'd want 90% TWU language because that's what we're used to.

I am twu and you are right mngt seems to like iam language and usair things like (fidelity) for 401k plan. I will vote NO. Since we are 66% of the rank and file the vote should be equal to the our voters not letting the iam have an equal vote for less members

 

[dfw gen]

QUOTE="NYer, post: 1332856, member: 16774"]Had there been anything to entice them?

They're making less gain but taking more loses. Why run towards that?

If our side was going to make an issue on things they could just sit quietly in the side and let time pass. Protect what they can as long an they can.[/QUOTE]


Like the good partner and associate they have turned out to be? This association has turned any concept of unionism inside out. They have turned more people away from the cause and unions that any management screw can ever hope to. In the end we all lose. The union by becoming to political and profit consumed. The membership by actually losing faith in an orginization that whose very existence is based on our needs and concerns. The winner? Corporate america because our leadership is to concerned with what the think is best and how to accomplish stop gap measures to secure their position. By using a dues payers cards as a sign of interest in the association against anything the membership could have wanted, is clearly twisting the intent of the law (they lobbird for) to suit their own purpose. No they have become the new democratic party. A party thats wants to provide free benefits to nonmembers, while fining members for not paying for benefits they want to give away for free to nonmembers....ie. immigrants and citizens.

 

[Talos]

The problem is that if we were not sold out by the TWU (Garcia in particular) and I'm not saying we were, then their hands were definitely tied and their collective voices meant nothing. We are the majority and look where we sit...The Association is the opposite of unionism it appears...at the very least, the TWU has been outplayed and the Association has proven to be nothing more than a lying, greedy entity that will never be trusted. It is indeed time to get out of this sham.

We were sold out IMO. The TWU put us in this wretched position and have cost their members a lot. It's a wonder Isom didn't tell Samuelson to look in the mirror as to why there is no deal. I'm sure the company enjoyed this Association to deal with knowing how dysfunctional it is, but they came up with new ideas such as giving LUS people a break for insurance for another year. We've heard nothing from the Association and seen nothing other than Samuelson blow his top. I put it on the TWU for terrible leadership.

 

[V.O. Reason]

Vote on what, there isn’t going to be a vote. The talks are stalled and the TRO is not going to change anything.
Everyone just better get use to the fact the association has screwed us big time and we will be lucky to see anything for a few more years

 

[1AA]

Vote on what, there isn’t going to be a vote. The talks are stalled and the TRO is not going to change anything.
Everyone just better get use to the fact the association has screwed us big time and we will be lucky to see anything for a few more years

The International ownes the contract. They will impose one as a last ditch effort to avoid a monetary fine that will drain the treasury if we dont vote one in.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

You said, "the company found some money for them, where is the money for us?"

Just answering your question. We got some too and we stand to get more. This JCBA isn't about money.

BTW... We should end up about 3% above UA, they'll be at $32 in Dec.

we absolutely should, but the company hasn't changed any of their wage proposals for fleet...except $3k more 'bonus' for lus fleet - due to the 'pain of transitioning to laa insurance'. an insurance that laa has endured without any bonus payments.

wages and current aa proposal - 3% more than delta. it's the same. company isn't budging.

so, you're saying what i'm saying...there's more $$ somewhere for fleet and you're expecting 3% more than united's december 2019 raise to $32.01/hr.

company has $7 billion laying around. they have said anything over $7 billion, they wish to give to shareholders. i'll take a few hundred million of that and strive for a $10k signing bonus.

they can keep their profit sharing and change the formula for the pilots and F/As...that's inevitable.

 

[NYer]

The problem is that if we were not sold out by the TWU (Garcia in particular) and I'm not saying we were, then their hands were definitely tied and their collective voices meant nothing. We are the majority and look where we sit...The Association is the opposite of unionism it appears...at the very least, the TWU has been outplayed and the Association has proven to be nothing more than a lying, greedy entity that will never be trusted. It is indeed time to get out of this sham.

I know it's popular to moan and blame the Association, but I think it's the people not the concept that has failed so far.

 

[NYer]

I am twu and you are right mngt seems to like iam language and usair things like (fidelity) for 401k plan. I will vote NO. Since we are 66% of the rank and file the vote should be equal to the our voters not letting the iam have an equal vote for less members

OK. Vote No. Then what?

 

[NYer]

Vote on what, there isn’t going to be a vote. The talks are stalled and the TRO is not going to change anything.
Everyone just better get use to the fact the association has screwed us big time and we will be lucky to see anything for a few more years

Few more weeks, not years.