American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

the company is doubling down with envoy. i believe there is a TA with envoy ticket agents.

i believe they rejected the first offer ($3/hr-$4/hr raises on DOS for topped-out agents...but only raises of $2+/hr over next 6 years).

without seeing the numbers, i'm guessing the company sweetened the pot enough for the cwa to agree to a TA.

the company found some money for them, where is the money for us?

Let's see, we got a 25% raise in 2016. Will probably end up around $33 an hour at DOS (Fleet), Profit sharing a couple of years, 2 free reserved seat tickets, a $1,000 bonus...then the proposal includes another 4% in matching 401K. Double time and half for 10 holidays, more paid sick days..... Doesn't seem money has been an issue.

 

[NYer]

I’m not directing this toward NYer but his post made a good Segway for my hypothetical question.
Since the twu and iam’s Certificate has expired per the nmb ruling where will the buck actually stop? The asso doesn’t have any money or so they say so wouldn’t it be like getting a fine against a turnip? The asso is a shell corporation setup by the other 2 so can a judgment be rendered against them?

The case is against the TWU, the IAM and the Association for Maintenance.

 

[robbedagain]

NY. If Fleet doesnt pass it would u be surprised? If we voted on that current company offer i can tell u from the folks in dc it wldnt pass here at least. Cant vouch for other cities

 

[scorpion 2]

The case is against the TWU, the IAM and the Association for Maintenance.

View attachment 14523

The case is against the TWU, the IAM and the Association for Maintenance.

View attachment 14523

Sorry, I should have worded the question differently.
It would probably be a death sentence for the twu but if they took the position that they were no longer the bargaining agent for mech n related would the courts dismiss them from the case? This is just a hypothetical question.
Say we had the ibt or amfa as our bargaining agent and replaced them with the asso. Neither the ibt or amfa would have any liability even if they were named on the suit ( I think) Just like the twu/Iam are named on this one. None of us are lawyers that I know of but just curious if this could be a tactic used to get removed from the suit?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Industrial Unions 101.



Tim, Please stop asking about him. He's gone, leave it alone or he might come back. Let it go dude...



Yes it is. And, after this toss under the bus, if they stay with this pathetic asso. it is just so far beyond me.
BTW; these court docs do not look good for the asso. Probably pretty much expected from this unprofessional asso.

Oh it

NY. If Fleet doesnt pass it would u be surprised? If we voted on that current company offer i can tell u from the folks in dc it wldnt pass here at least. Cant vouch for other cities

Oh it will pass even in your city Robbed. Going over article by article, you guys get the golden ticket. Have you read all of the goodies loaded up in all of the articles? Out of 43 articles, 40 are major improvements.
Do you have paid suspensions now? Nope
Do you have overtime bypass payment now? Nope
Do you have 15 minute breaks now? Nope
Do you have overtime for badging? Nope. Hell there is a whole lot of goodies regarding badging.
Do you have paid time off or half time off when your station closes due to winter storm/Hurricaine? Nope.
Toss in all of the other goodies like better protections, extra cash, extra holidays, extra vacations, shift differ, true double time on regular day, far better contribution for retirement. $6.000 singing bonus, $65,000 buyout, Small medical retiree bridge, Life insurance doubled to $70,000 instead of $35,000. Not sure what you are complaining about bro???? Only 2 items were losers, i.e., health care, and losing catering. But health care we will lose anyways in 2 years when the company terminates the plans, according to the LOA.

In negotiations, you don't pitch a perfect game, NEVER. But in this case, it's pretty close to perfect. Yet the union has targeted the company with an alleged trashing, as Samuelson said explicitly he wants to bloody and destroy this company in the battle of all battles.

Why? Because they want 2,500 additional dues payers by insisting on 20 more stations (63 total). And they haven't relented like a spoiled baby. They want more dues and are throwing away an awesome contract. If they relented, they may get IAH and RSW but no way 20 more stations.

Now, with the economy certainly in cool down mode with 6 month indicators, and the max being grounded until the end of the year now, and with the company losing tens of millions each week due to alleged slowdown it reported, who is going to pay for this? I'd be surprised if the next proposal isn't significantly less.
IMO, they will scrap the protections since you and others who can't read used it against them. Better to just scrap it and put those millions in more wages, etc since you guys couldn't understand the awesome protections.

 

[NYer]

NY. If Fleet doesnt pass it would u be surprised? If we voted on that current company offer i can tell u from the folks in dc it wldnt pass here at least. Cant vouch for other cities

No. Wouldn't be surprised. There is a lot of misinformation going around.

 

[NYer]

Sorry, I should have worded the question differently.
It would probably be a death sentence for the twu but if they took the position that they were no longer the bargaining agent for mech n related would the courts dismiss them from the case? This is just a hypothetical question.
Say we had the ibt or amfa as our bargaining agent and replaced them with the asso. Neither the ibt or amfa would have any liability even if they were named on the suit ( I think) Just like the twu/Iam are named on this one. None of us are lawyers that I know of but just curious if this could be a tactic used to get removed from the suit?

There would need to be another bargaining agent certified by the NMB for that to even be a possibility.

By the time all that happens the TWU would be forced to deal with the issues to then later try to fight any assessed damages.

It wouldn't change the shirt term, which is what the Company is after. A JCBA.

 

[dfw gen]

No. Wouldn't be surprised. There is a lot of misinformation going around.

And the association is doing next to nothing to set the record straight

 

[scorpion 2]

There would need to be another bargaining agent certified by the NMB for that to even be a possibility.

By the time all that happens the TWU would be forced to deal with the issues to then later try to fight any assessed damages.

It wouldn't change the shirt term, which is what the Company is after. A JCBA.

The twu and Iam both gave up their certification a few years back that’s why I’m wondering if they could both try to walk away from this. The asso is our bargaining agent now not the twu or the iam.

 

[robbedagain]

Pa

Oh it

Oh it will pass even in your city Robbed. Going over article by article, you guys get the golden ticket. Have you read all of the goodies loaded up in all of the articles? Out of 43 articles, 40 are major improvements.
Do you have paid suspensions now? Nope
Do you have overtime bypass payment now? Nope
Do you have 15 minute breaks now? Nope
Do you have overtime for badging? Nope. Hell there is a whole lot of goodies regarding badging.
Do you have paid time off or half time off when your station closes due to winter storm/Hurricaine? Nope.
Toss in all of the other goodies like better protections, extra cash, extra holidays, extra vacations, shift differ, true double time on regular day, far better contribution for retirement. $6.000 singing bonus, $65,000 buyout, Small medical retiree bridge, Life insurance doubled to $70,000 instead of $35,000. Not sure what you are complaining about bro???? Only 2 items were losers, i.e., health care, and losing catering. But health care we will lose anyways in 2 years when the company terminates the plans, according to the LOA.

In negotiations, you don't pitch a perfect game, NEVER. But in this case, it's pretty close to perfect. Yet the union has targeted the company with an alleged trashing, as Samuelson said explicitly he wants to bloody and destroy this company in the battle of all battles.

Why? Because they want 2,500 additional dues payers by insisting on 20 more stations (63 total). And they haven't relented like a spoiled baby. They want more dues and are throwing away an awesome contract. If they relented, they may get IAH and RSW but no way 20 more stations.

Now, with the economy certainly in cool down mode with 6 month indicators, and the max being grounded until the end of the year now, and with the company losing tens of millions each week due to alleged slowdown it reported, who is going to pay for this? I'd be surprised if the next proposal isn't significantly less.
IMO, they will scrap the protections since you and others who can't read used it against them. Better to just scrap it and put those millions in more wages, etc since you guys couldn't understand the awesome protections.

Certain suspension is in fact paid.

Im not complaining. I was asking questions. Catering gone but what about cargo?

I can read n am pretty darn good at reading so stop knocking me off the runway. Im merely asking questions[/QUOTE]

 

[NYer]

And the association is doing next to nothing to set the record straight

For Fleet, they're the ones misinforming the most.

 

[dfw gen]

For Fleet, they're the ones misinforming the most.

Its amazing how the association has screwed the pooch from day 1. And they refuse to learn ftom their mistakes. They do not deserve the privilege if representing us. I have lttle to no sympathy.

 

[dfw gen]

From day 1 the iam took their position for granted. They sat out untill their positions were threatned.

 

[1AA]

Unless things have changed all negotiations involving all groups have to pass their JCBA or none pass. If this still holds true I would hate to explain to fleet why they where forced a vote because the maintenance folks had a hefty fine for violating a TRO. As in the past for the TWU it has been determined that the International owned the contract. So if we get forced to vote and its split watch the TWU side sign off on all groups without membership ratification. Now as far as the IAM side goes I'm not sure how this scenario will play out.

 

[NYer]

Unless things have changed all negotiations involving all groups have to pass their JCBA or none pass. If this still holds true I would hate to explain to fleet why they where forced a vote because the maintenance folks had a hefty fine for violating a TRO. As in the past for the TWU it has been determined that the International owned the contract. So if we get forced to vote and its split watch the TWU side sign off on all groups without membership ratification. Now as far as the IAM side goes I'm not sure how this scenario will play out.

They can't. It's separate books and separate Associations. If one group passes and others don't then that group has a ratified JCBA.

Keeping everyone together had been voluntary and it's the reason the Fleet group has been told things that aren't actually in language.

They're hoping if there's a vote, the misleading information will keep Fleet without a deal considering the maintenance group may not pass.