American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

And how do they plan on compensating the TWU for having the more expensive health insurance while our suppose it equals continue to save money and get better benefits?

You have to realize that unfortunately and I mean this particularly if all of us were in those Medical plans they may not survive anyway if the Cadillac Tax gets implemented? It’s been pushed back to 2022 so far and could keep being pushed back due to its unpopularity. But if it’s not pushed back or abolished all together we‘re talking 2 more years till those Medical Plans need to be discussed.

I don’t know what if anything would be given (By the Company) to the TWU?

Personally if it was ultimately (For me) what was needed to break a part of any of the log jams they can keep it and have their own fights on it before 2022.

BTW even though the Company is Legally obligated to make up for the shortfall, IAM (peeps) can turn around and say what do they get for the fact that we still have a DBP that the Company has to put in near 1 Billion this year for all LAA Employees.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.br...t-the-cadillac-tax-rate-a-technical-note/amp/

 

[WeAAsles]

That "sailed" ship is the problem, Bin...Many of my coworkers feel the sharing of two unions is the reason this very well could go 5-6 years.

So let’s say (And it’s not) it was strictly that IAM Medical that was the hold up? (Again it’s not) would you be cool with them keeping it to end any logjams?

 

[MetalMover]

So let’s say (And it’s not) it was strictly that IAM Medical that was the hold up? (Again it’s not) would you be cool with them keeping it to end any logjams?

No. Isn't the reason for a JCBA to get both unions on the same page?
I will tell you this, using your hypothetical....If the IAM medical were the only issue preventing a vote and the rest of the contract was acceptable even on scope, that contract would be voted down handily. The IAM is still the minority union.

Let me ask you this, WeAAz...Would like them to keep their IAM pension?

 

[WeAAsles]

No. Isn't the reason for a JCBA to get both unions on the same page?
I will tell you this, using your hypothetical....If the IAM medical were the only issue preventing a vote and the rest of the contract was acceptable even on scope, that contract would be voted down handily. The IAM is still the minority union.

So then it’s not about ultimately getting a deal for you and moving forward, it’s about having to satisfy a tit for tat with the IAM?

And no if the gains were hearty the TA’s would not be voted down handily or voted down at all as a matter of fact.

Oh there would be some griping that’s for sure. But if the IAM were coming out of that Medical over time people would shrug their shoulders and go right to the wages page.

BTW as just a reminder I still stand by my prediction of a 17% (Maybe 18%) overall cost to start with and then it rising over the next few years (See the Envoy Agents offer)

The Company is not going to want to pick up the 40% excise Tax penalty for anything over the published max.

 

[WeAAsles]

Let me ask you this, WeAAz...Would like them to keep their IAM pension?

I have no problem at all if they keep their IAM Pensions. Look Metal I REALLY (REALLY) don’t care what some other guy gets or doesn’t get next to me.

I think absolutely their Membership at least should have the right to do whatever they want with whatever they earned or fought for before the Merger was announced.

Anyway this is what they supposedly proposed according to Jetnet if anyone takes the word of Management as gospel.

Association’s Proposal

• Applies only to IAM-represented members; TWU would not be included in the defined benefit plan the Association has proposed
• IAM has already agreed to allow IAM members to leave the defined benefit plan if the company will pay a withdrawal liabilty fee.

 

[Tim Nelson]

No. Isn't the reason for a JCBA to get both unions on the same page?
I will tell you this, using your hypothetical....If the IAM medical were the only issue preventing a vote and the rest of the contract was acceptable even on scope, that contract would be voted down handily. The IAM is still the minority union.

Let me ask you this, WeAAz...Would like them to keep their IAM pension?

The deal is being held up by the IAM Pension. Watch the negotiation update video at the 11:30 mark and the IAM Union Boss clearly states that "Our offer on the table is to offer the defined benefit plan to ALL Associaiton members and a 401k" This is the holdup. And the TWU Bosses are sworn to support that since they already signed the documents saying they will support the IAM pension for all members. At any rate, it's finally nice to see them say that they are proposing the IAM Pension for "ALL". The information I received months ago said this as well, but Weez and other paid damage control peeps quickly shot it down and said that they aren't offering TWU members the IAM pension. Watch the video, you need not believe Weez or any other Peterson Pollyanna.

regards,

 

[Bin Stretcher]

you dont understand. That bag over your head is covering your brain.
Look, the company wants the "core work" as is at United. You can keep believing baskett that the company is trying to contract out everything but baskett gets all his info secondhand from Sito.
The company offered language that gives us "exclusive" work in 40 stations. That hasnt changed in 18 months other than they offered catering as well until Sito tried to attach the pension. That was a onetime offer.

Neither this company, nor any airline that I know, is wanting to ditch its mainline workers since venders are too pricey in a market with a tight job market. United, American, Jetblue, Delta.....all airlines are hiring mainline and insourcing.

Our talks are stalled over the iam pension only. If they continue to be stalled with no negotiation sessions, the Association will be replaced.

Regards,

How can you make ANY assertions what so ever?
You can not make a statement about a negotiator getting secondhand info when he is just down the hall and YOU'RE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME UNIVERSE, much less state, city, street or hotel!!!
You speak only for those imaginary friends in your head!

 

[WeAAsles]

How can you make ANY assertions what so ever?
You can not make a statement about a negotiator getting secondhand info when he is just down the hall and YOU'RE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME UNIVERSE, much less state, city, street or hotel!!!
You speak only for those imaginary friends in your head!

This is reality IMO.

Association’s Proposal

• Applies only to IAM-represented members; TWU would not be included in the defined benefit plan the Association has proposed

• IAM has already agreed to allow IAM members to leave the defined benefit plan if the company will pay a withdrawal liabilty fee.

Of course what the Company doesn’t put out is exactly what is the percentage the Association is asking for in a 401k formula to open the door to IAM Members leaving the IAMPF? Or how much is the withdrawal liability fee?

BTW the original Association documents stated that the TWU would “propose” inclusion into the IAMPF to the Company and of that wasn’t accepted they would “support” the continuance of the benefit for current IAM participants.

By no means (silly thought even) could the TWU force the Company to relent to let us in the fund and as we now know they don’t want to continue paying into it for anyone at all (It’s a higher cost per member than their 401k proposal overall)

 

[Bin Stretcher]

"Neither this company, nor any airline that I know, is wanting to ditch its mainline workers since venders are too pricey in a market with a tight job market. United, American, Jetblue, Delta.....all airlines are hiring mainline and insourcing."

This totally explains why our airline has SO many BSO employees!! Right CWA?

Go ahead...... spin another untruth!

 

[Tim Nelson]

How can you make ANY assertions what so ever?
You can not make a statement about a negotiator getting secondhand info when he is just down the hall and YOU'RE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME UNIVERSE, much less state, city, street or hotel!!!
You speak only for those imaginary friends in your head!

down the hall, next building over.....its all second hand info he is being given. Thats not good enuf unless you trust sito.
For those who dont trust sito then i think its very fair to at least have a Local prez in thw room.
Something is wrong.

Either they are lying or they dont trust the members.

At any rate, you cant dispute the iam video which says iam pension for all.

regards,

 

[WeAAsles]

"Neither this company, nor any airline that I know, is wanting to ditch its mainline workers since venders are too pricey in a market with a tight job market. United, American, Jetblue, Delta.....all airlines are hiring mainline and insourcing."

This totally explains why our airline has SO many BSO employees!! Right CWA?

Go ahead...... spin another untruth!

I have not heard of any job or Station that has been subcontracted out on the TWU side being sourced back in house. Or that the Company has even proposed to bring any work back in.

They have been hiring for the Mainline but only in work they are already obligated to staff under our CBA’s.

 

[Kev3188]

I have not heard of any job or Station that has been subcontracted out on the TWU side being sourced back in house. Or that the Company has even proposed to bring any work back in.

And that’s a shame, really. Especially in the current industry environment.

 

[wrencher]

This is reality IMO.

Association’s Proposal

• Applies only to IAM-represented members; TWU would not be included in the defined benefit plan the Association has proposed

• IAM has already agreed to allow IAM members to leave the defined benefit plan if the company will pay a withdrawal liabilty fee.

Of course what the Company doesn’t put out is exactly what is the percentage the Association is asking for in a 401k formula to open the door to IAM Members leaving the IAMPF? Or how much is the withdrawal liability fee?

BTW the original Association documents stated that the TWU would “propose” inclusion into the IAMPF to the Company and of that wasn’t accepted they would “support” the continuance of the benefit for current IAM participants.

By no means (silly thought even) could the TWU force the Company to relent to let us in the fund and as we now know they don’t want to continue paying into it for anyone at all (It’s a higher cost per member than their 401k proposal overall)

Maybe I want the option to get back in the IAM penstion

 

[wrencher]

Maybe I want the option to get back in the IAM pension

PENSION

 

[anotherdelay]

PENSION

your non de plume is spot on. prez would include a reach around with that. the fact that iam would even include the penalty is the tell of what's holding everything up. It's stops all negotiations on everything.