American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[B737 driver]

Actually I need to modify this comment for driver since Airline Deregulation was a nightmare for Legacy Airlines but a Godsend for Southwest Airlines which assisted in lowering the bar overall for established old guard Airline Workers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.na...west-airlines-changed-air-travel-forever/amp/

We were chained for a long time with the Wright Amendment limiting us at Love field because we refused to move to DFW. I would say September 11 th, and buying Airtran, took us off. When they bought Morris Air, that was a blip on the radar to SWA!

 

[WeAAsles]

Don't forget what followed deregulation. PATCO strike with Reagan firing the controllers and then Frank Lorenzo taking CAL into bankruptcy just to abrogate all labor agreements. This began the anti union movement in the airlines. Airlines especially knew they had friends in the White House and the Congress. It has been a disaster for airline workers ever since.

I was a kid (16) but not engaging in a sympathy strike to support PATCO was likely the beginning of the real moment when Executives realized they held the keys to the vehicle even if Labor sometimes reached over from the passenger seat to grab the wheel.

Any time our industry Labor groups fight each other it’s detrimental to all of us.

BTW APFA put out a notice of support yesterday for the IAM pickets. And before anyone chimes in YES I wish they had started earlier but I’m happy to have them on board now.

 

[B737 driver]

Oh and the TWUs b scale didnt help

True, neither did Republic's when Northwest bought them.

 

[WeAAsles]

When i was hired we didnt fly west of Chicago or south of SDF. Geography isnt my strong point actually i dont have a strong point anyhow deregulation provided opportunities for the carriers to grow.Some carriers like USwere careful and did well at first some like braniff went like a bat out of hell and folded.The new entrants is what really hurt labor i wonder if there will ever be another new entrant of signficance. Where would they get the pilots

Deregulation unfortunately had to occur. Even though it sucked for the Legacy carriers and their Employees, the Government just couldn’t stifle competition and keep so many people from being able to enjoy Air travel. (Much to our chagrin today)

Oh and the TWUs b scale didnt help

TWU Members voted in that B Scale. In hindsight I’m sure greed paid the ultimate role in that decision maybe in others minds they did it for something else?

 

[WeAAsles]

We were chained for a long time with the Wright Amendment limiting us at Love field because we refused to move to DFW. I would say September 11 th, and buying Airtran, took us off. When they bought Morris Air, that was a blip on the radar to SWA!

Yea but now you’re no longer an LCC even if Management wants to try to keep you under that umbrella. Actually Kelly said he wanted SWA to be an Ultra LCC. You guys just keeping making sure he doesn’t get that wish granted.

 

[WeAAsles]

When i was hired we didnt fly west of Chicago or south of SDF. Geography isnt my strong point actually i dont have a strong point anyhow deregulation provided opportunities for the carriers to grow.Some carriers like USwere careful and did well at first some like braniff went like a bat out of hell and folded.The new entrants is what really hurt labor i wonder if there will ever be another new entrant of signficance. Where would they get the pilots

Are the Discount Airlines Doomed?
The death of Wow Air is a grim sign of things to come for other discount airlines.

“That's the way an airline fizzles. But now, something bigger is at stake. Other low-cost carriers such as Primera Air and Germania also have bitten the dust in recent months. Norwegian Airlines, considered the standard-bearer of discount long-haul airfare, charts a similarly precarious financial path. Is the era of inexpensive flights across the Atlantic Ocean doomed?”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.popularmechanics.com/flight/airlines/amp26977332/wow-air-collapse/

 

[Kev3188]

Is it just me or is it really F@#k@d up making all these aliases for a job you didnt have for 25 years.

It's not just you.

Any time our industry Labor groups fight each other it’s detrimental to all of us.

Nice to see you've had a change of heart. Try and keep these words in mind the next time you post about not caring what happens at other carriers.

True, neither did Republic's when Northwest bought them.

Even just a few years ago there was still bad blood between Red Tailers and "Ducks." There's a reason DL issued every one of us a new employee number when we merged.

 

[B737 driver]

Yea but now you’re no longer an LCC even if Management wants to try to keep you under that umbrella. Actually Kelly said he wanted SWA to be an Ultra LCC. You guys just keeping making sure he doesn’t get that wish granted.

If you think about it, if we keep just our exsisting C check lines, and say next contract we gain those extra 3 lines back, we are still mostly line maintenance. So say by the end of this contract we have 900 A/C we are at like 3.3 mechanics right now per aircraft so that is 2970. If we were the min per contract 2.75 min. .That would be 2475. So even with what we are paid our numbers make us low cost. Same as UPS, paid more than us 1200 line mechanics, no heavy checks.

 

[B737 driver]

Are the Discount Airlines Doomed?
The death of Wow Air is a grim sign of things to come for other discount airlines.

“That's the way an airline fizzles. But now, something bigger is at stake. Other low-cost carriers such as Primera Air and Germania also have bitten the dust in recent months. Norwegian Airlines, considered the standard-bearer of discount long-haul airfare, charts a similarly precarious financial path. Is the era of inexpensive flights across the Atlantic Ocean doomed?”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.popularmechanics.com/flight/airlines/amp26977332/wow-air-collapse/

It's simple math, you have to have decent yields to pay the bills or you go out of business. This has not changed since People's Express flew 747s. Or when Braniff was wet leasing Concordes and that failed experimental operation.

 

[ALUS78]

Are the Discount Airlines Doomed?
The death of Wow Air is a grim sign of things to come for other discount airlines.

“That's the way an airline fizzles. But now, something bigger is at stake. Other low-cost carriers such as Primera Air and Germania also have bitten the dust in recent months. Norwegian Airlines, considered the standard-bearer of discount long-haul airfare, charts a similarly precarious financial path. Is the era of inexpensive flights across the Atlantic Ocean doomed?”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.popularmechanics.com/flight/airlines/amp26977332/wow-air-collapse/

Freddie Laker

 

[1986Mekanic]

RLA Flow

 

[ALUS78]

It's not just you.



Nice to see you've had a change of heart. Try and keep these words in mind the next time you post about not caring what happens at other carriers.



Even just a few years ago there was still bad blood between Red Tailers and "Ducks." There's a reason DL issued every one of us a new employee number when we merged.

Those guys were upset the lost that duck on the tail seriously. But i remember both groups being decent folk.Republic had some odd colored customer service uniforms

 

[ALUS78]

It's simple math, you have to have decent yields to pay the bills or you go out of business. This has not changed since People's Express flew 747s. Or when Braniff was wet leasing Concordes and that failed experimental operation.

Our own people dont understand this, this is why AA cut the Caribbean and Florida out of jfk.Its all about Yields

 

[B737 driver]

Our own people dont understand this, this is why AA cut the Caribbean and Florida out of jfk.Its all about Yields

Wow airlines failed because they went from operating A320s to adding A330s widebodies, and then a premium cabin , and selling $49 fares across the Atlantic, not to mention their failed merger with Icelandic Air, and ran out of time and money. They left their low cost roots, another failure of a management team, that has no clue in cost to yield management.

 

[charlie Brown]

I would like to thank everyone who came out yesterday and held a sign, to help hold the line...
We knew that we were in for a fight .... But many of us believed that it would not take this long.
And many have asked "how long will it take?"
I say it will take as long as it takes...
If we don't try... We will have our hands chained economically...we will have to decide what bills can be paid now and what bills can wait...or can I go to the doctor or do I buy food...
And scope.... They say that " you" will keep your job...these are the same bastards that say that that insurance is ' almost ' as good as the one we have now ... Some believe that ... I don't. I can't... I have seen to much from them. I have been through too much...
When we come to work , we see people, co-workers, and friends, they see numbers with a profit/loss equation attached... With their own self greed they can't see us as people anymore...greed so deep, that they think we will sell one another out for a quick, short pay out... I say no.... That we will NOT sell ourselves out ...... Not now, not in the future... We are not the selfish assholes they think we are...we are better then that.. we've got to be better than that... If we're not , then we lose... A few have children that work out here.
Most do not... So all they leave there, is a reputation, a memory in the collective workforce... I do not want our reputation, our memory, years from now, to be viewed as a turning point... that we gave up in a time of plenty... And took less that what we have now..
So I deeply thank all of you that did show up and held a sign, and as far as the ones who did not...I'm sure you had your reasons... good or bad, only you have to justify it in your own minds