American Airline Mechanics couldn't have rejected a much better contract

[bob@las-AA]

Wrong on all counts.

Lets look at some facts here.
Not a shred of fact in this post, it's a bold face lie, I can't believe you posted this $hit.
-Since the concessions, on average, the annual revenue for AMR has increased by around $4 billion a year.
Average of all revenue from 2003-2014 = $23,864,583
Average of Expenses from  2003-2014  = $23,479,417
Average unaudited profit from year to year 2003-2014 = $385,167
 
A Very far cry from what you're trying sell here. 
 
-Our compensation was slashed by 25%, giving AA an annual savings of $310million.
 
 
 
-AA savings were further enhanced through the elimination of 35% of the M&R workforce, this would equate to an additional savings of approximately $338million(wages only, all AMTs at top rate).
 
FY( fiscal year end) 2002, American employed 18,187 M&R
FY( fiscal year end) 2003, American employed 16,747 M&R
 
A difference of only -7.92%
 
 
If $310 million represented 25% of the M&R labor cost then their total cost for labor going in to 2003 would have been $1,240 million. (4x 310)
 
As a whole, labor was cut by -13.44% with a reduction of  Wage and Fringe Expenditures of -$1,128,000
 
 
So immediately after the concessions their costs dropped to $930 million.
 
-$2,466,000 going into year 2003 from 2002
 

By reducing the headcount 35%, around 4500 workers, they save an additional $338 million. (4500x$75213)(not counting benifits but assuming that all were top paid AMTs).
 
I think I will stop here because of the amount of falsely bolstered misleading untruths you are selling as true is just sickening.
The sad truth being,that most will take your word for it.
But I get my information from the source, the filings that are registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission
 
http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcompany&CIK=0000006201&type=10-K&dateb=&owner=exclude&count=40
 
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2013%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/Individual%20Employee%20Data/American%20Airlines%20Employee%20Data%20and%20Analysis.htm
 
http://apps.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/index.xml
 
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/dsrv
 
​compile the data yourself.
 
So now their labor costs are down to roughly $592 million or half of what they were going into 2003.

The 1.5% increases add up to around $33 million but the company recouped most of that by increasing what we pay for medical by around $24 million so they could offset the costs of the pilot and FA plans.

So the company has seen their revenues increase on average by around $4 billion/year while at the same time their labor costs for maintenence has gone from around $1.24 billion to around $600 million.

"Restore", thats the 2003 rate of pay off the 2001 contract, all the workrules, benifits, vacation, sick time, IOD , all of it, would only cost the company around $187 million over what they are paying now,(because there are 35% less of us, 65% X $310million minus the 1.5% raises), peanuts, less than 1% of AMRs revenue.

AA labor costs for M&R would go up at the most to $800 million. Still $400 million less than $1.24 billion. Less than 4% of AAs revenue, plus we bring in millions through 3P work and the company outsources less (in other words shares less of their revenue with other companies) than anybody else.

The TA was a zero cost offer.

Yes, we expect more.

Restore would be a huge bargain for the company, but they were greedy and demanded even more concessions and the members said NO.

I want an inflation adjusted "Restore". Which is only fair. The company cant cry poverty, since 2003 their revenues have gone up on average nearly $4 billion a year and they are paying half of what they used to pay for M&R labor.

Inflationary adjustments to base (3% per year)
Year Adj Base Total(day AMT Line)
2003 30.61 36.16
2004 .91 31.52 37.07
2005 .95 32.47 38.02
2006 .97 33.44 38.99
2007 1.00 34.44 39.99

Retro to 2008.
2008 1.03 35.47 41.02
2009 1.06 36.53 42.08
2010 1.09 37.62 43.17
2011 1.13 38.75 44.30
2012 1.16 39.91 45.46

This may look like a lot, when you're in the sewer the gutter looks high (either location is no longer acceptable)but you have to remember that this would only bring our earnings up to around where they were in 2002 and is around what SWA gets and lower than what UPS ($46.99) offered their guys. In total it comes out to around a $304 million annual increase over what they are paying now, thats less than what they took away ($310million) and it would still leave the companys costs hundreds of millions less than what they were going into 2003.

We wouldnt even be touching any of that $4 billion in extra revenue they take in.

Maybe your Boss needs to accept a little less, or end up getting nothing out of AA.

Sorry Owens, you are so far off the mark you should be flogged with your own post!
I challenge you to prove me wrong, I've always known you were a union salter but you have gone too far.
Your armchair Union "Better get Saul " analyst approach by offering made up numbers that you have the gall to call the truth.
You sir need to distance yourself from this fantasy and come back to reality.

 

[Vortilon]

Sorry Owens, you are so far off the mark you should be flogged with your own post!
I challenge you to prove me wrong, I've always known you were a union salter but you have gone too far.
Your armchair Union "Better get Saul " analyst approach by offering made up numbers that you have the gall to call the truth.
You sir need to distance yourself from this fantasy and come back to reality.

 
You're a funny guy Bob@LAS,  I'm sure that Bob just made up random numbers off the top of his head, not....The 35% reduction in the M&R workforce you try to disprove his assertion using only a one year change from 02 to 03.  I'm pretty sure Bob was referring to the M&R headcount reduction from 02 till the time of his post.  Anyway, Bob is fully capable of defending his post if he sees fit.  Your time could be better spent concerning your own union leadership, and holding them accountable for lack of transparency and deception.  Bob isn't in your chain of command.

 

[Overspeed]

bob@las,
The MX cost reduction numbers (reduced HC and the labor costs) only make sense if the work volume stays constant. The info that Bob left out is that fleet size shrank dramatically from 2001 to BK (close to 25%). If the ratio of M&R to aircraft remains constant you would expect to see a reduction of 25% plus some more for older aircraft being retired (more work load). Then add in the increase in outsourcing which is lower than competitors (another 2,000 AMTs) and you can answer most of the HC reduction in M&R. The only real cost savings came from the outsourcing in the BK CBA plus the freezing of the pensions.
 
I hope to see soon the negotiations agenda for the Association. I am interested at how the Association will function when the videos, posts, and letters fly from 591's dream team trying to undermine the Association Negotiation Team.

 

[Realityck]

 
You're a funny guy Bob@LAS,  I'm sure that Bob just made up random numbers off the top of his head, not....The 35% reduction in the M&R workforce you try to disprove his assertion using only a one year change from 02 to 03.  I'm pretty sure Bob was referring to the M&R headcount reduction from 02 till the time of his post.  Anyway, Bob is fully capable of defending his post if he sees fit.  Your time could be better spent concerning your own union leadership, and holding them accountable for lack of transparency and deception.  Bob isn't in your chain of command.

 
 
He's the Secretary Treasurer of Local 591 and consequently should be held accountable for what he posts here. His numerous misstatements (lies - fabrications - distortions) are a disgrace.
 
His VOTE NO rallying cry in 2010 followed by his "they'll never file for Bankruptcy" prediction fell on it's collective ass. His pot of gold at the end of the rainbow forecast was  just another crystal ball prophesy and look where we are today . He's a true example of a Snake Oil Salesman. The irony is he's a top officer of Local 591 and someone we should be able to depend on to help his President, Gary Peterson, negotiate the contract we all need. I don't know how you feel about it, but I'm sure as hell not impressed! And don't give me the crap about the former leadership, they're gone and we're up at bat. Let's get our s--t together.

 

[Bob Owens]

CMH_GSE,
And because you were so pissed you voted down many incremental improvements that would have taken place prior to BK and improved the baseline going in to BK. So we ended up getting no improvements and ending up worse in BK than others that accepted the TA. The MCTs kept all items in the 2010 TA plus got the same raises we got in the BK (3% annual). We started lower pay-wise.
 
So you are right the 2010 TA was not great, but what we ended up with from 2010 until BK was far worse. We got nothing. Yeah CMH_GSE you outsmarted AA and gave them our labor for le

CMH_GSE,
And because you were so pissed you voted down many incremental improvements that would have taken place prior to BK and improved the baseline going in to BK. So we ended up getting no improvements and ending up worse in BK than others that accepted the TA. The MCTs kept all items in the 2010 TA plus got the same raises we got in the BK (3% annual). We started lower pay-wise.
 
So you are right the 2010 TA was not great, but what we ended up with from 2010 until BK was far worse. We got nothing. Yeah CMH_GSE you outsmarted AA and gave them our labor for less. Big win there buddy.

So now you say that we should have accepted the 2010 deal because we would have gone into BK fatter, despite the fact that AA was saying nothing about BK but defend giving massive concessions in 2003 under Littles argument that if we give concessions prior to BK that the courts would treat us better in recognition of our sacrifice.

The strategy was simple, vote down the TA and negotiate under the 30 day cooling off period. Unfortunately Jim Little decided to take the unprecedented step of asking to not be released and to continue to negotiate under the same exact conditions that failed to move the company off their zero cost position over the previous three years. Instead of asking to be released, and I know of no cases where the NMB refused to release the parties after rejection of a NMB mediated TA, big Don and Little dragged talks out till they filed BK.

 

[Bob Owens]

He's the Secretary Treasurer of Local 591 and consequently should be held accountable for what he posts here. His numerous misstatements (lies - fabrications - distortions) are a disgrace.
 
His VOTE NO rallying cry in 2010 followed by his "they'll never file for Bankruptcy" prediction fell on it's collective ass. His pot of gold at the end of the rainbow forecast was  just another crystal ball prophesy and look where we are today . He's a true example of a Snake Oil Salesman. The irony is he's a top officer of Local 591 and someone we should be able to depend on to help his President, Gary Peterson, negotiate the contract we all need. I don't know how you feel about it, but I'm sure as hell not impressed! And don't give me the crap about the former leadership, they're gone and we're up at bat. Let's get our s--t together.

Reality check you are a liar.

 

[Bob Owens]

bob@las,
The MX cost reduction numbers (reduced HC and the labor costs) only make sense if the work volume stays constant. The info that Bob left out is that fleet size shrank dramatically from 2001 to BK (close to 25%). If the ratio of M&R to aircraft remains constant you would expect to see a reduction of 25% plus some more for older aircraft being retired (more work load). Then add in the increase in outsourcing which is lower than competitors (another 2,000 AMTs) and you can answer most of the HC reduction in M&R..

Fleet size shrank but revenues still went up. Supposedly we gave concessions to save jobs. Still waiting for you to explain how giving away a week of vacation saved jobs. If anything that eliminates jobs. During that period AA actually reduced outsourcing, thanks to all the concessions that had the much lower paid workers working more hours for much less pay.

 

[Bob Owens]

Sorry Owens, you are so far off the mark you should be flogged with your own post!
I challenge you to prove me wrong, I've always known you were a union salter but you have gone too far.
Your armchair Union "Better get Saul " analyst approach by offering made up numbers that you have the gall to call the truth.
You sir need to distance yourself from this fantasy and come back to reality.

That post was written in 2010. In 2003 IIRC AA revenue was $18 BILLION BY 2010 IT WAS $22 billion. That's an increase of $4 billion.
The 35% headcount reduction was the number presented to the Negotiating committee by the economist hired by the TWU, Donnelly. I said that this was a further savings for the company, not that they laid off 35%. You misread what I wrote. Except where noted otherwise I was referring to conditions when I made the post. So there you have it, you are wrong.

 

[Bob Owens]

You're a funny guy Bob@LAS,  I'm sure that Bob just made up random numbers off the top of his head, not....The 35% reduction in the M&R workforce you try to disprove his assertion using only a one year change from 02 to 03.  I'm pretty sure Bob was referring to the M&R headcount reduction from 02 till the time of his post.  Anyway, Bob is fully capable of defending his post if he sees fit.  Your time could be better spent concerning your own union leadership, and holding them accountable for lack of transparency and deception.  Bob isn't in your chain of command.

Correct, 35% is the number that was given by the economist hired by the TWU In 2009. It was probably higher when I made that post.

 

[Overspeed]

Bob,
I was never a proponent of giving back a week of VC but you know full well the situation in 2003. We would have ended up the same as UA and DL in BK most likely.
 
I am so excited for you Bob though. Now you have the floor at negotiations. Who will you blame now?

 

[bigjets]

Ok leave bob alone, he is a well known vote no know nothing, and he abdicated for the FAs to vote no and go to arbitration, where the arbitrator ruled against the FAs on every count. That said Bob and the other union guys are working for what they think is in our best interest, unfortunately what they think should happen doesn't, and we are usually worse off for their action.

ORD and DFW local union guys think it really helps to have a adversarial relationship, the union guys are trying to be the next jimmy Hoffa. Look at Miami the local management and union they're working together and look at all the work and OT they get. Yes management has to buy in on that, but so does the union.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
I was never a proponent of giving back a week of VC but you know full well the situation in 2003. We would have ended up the same as UA and DL in BK most likely.
 
I am so excited for you Bob though. Now you have the floor at negotiations. Who will you blame now?

Hmm, so you mean we would have ended up with cheaper Medical, more holidays, more vacation, better overtime rules, and a higher wage? I agree but had we gone into BK in 2003 more than likely we would have only lost 14% instead of 25%, UAL would gave accepted the 2003 agreement, US would not have filed a second time and we all would be earning within 10% of UPS.

 

[Bob Owens]

Ok leave bob alone, he is a well known vote no know nothing, and he abdicated for the FAs to vote no and go to arbitration, where the arbitrator ruled against the FAs on every count.

Abdicated? Maybe bigjets should stay away from big words?

 

[MetalMover]

Hmm, so you mean we would have ended up with cheaper Medical, more holidays, more vacation, better overtime rules, and a higher wage? I agree but had we gone into BK in 2003 more than likely we would have only lost 14% instead of 25%, UAL would gave accepted the 2003 agreement, US would not have filed a second time and we all would be earning within 10% of UPS.

You know what's funny? The pro-TWU-CAN-DO - NO-WRONG-COALITION group have defended their beloved TWU for being victims of a bad economy and BK in having no choice but to agree to all the concessions and CRAP contracts we have endured. But when it comes to those who voted NO on past T/A's, they pin the entire blame on them and act as if there never was a BK or bad economy. What hypocrites.

 

[Vortilon]

 
 
He's the Secretary Treasurer of Local 591 and consequently should be held accountable for what he posts here. His numerous misstatements (lies - fabrications - distortions) are a disgrace.
 
His VOTE NO rallying cry in 2010 followed by his "they'll never file for Bankruptcy" prediction fell on it's collective ass. His pot of gold at the end of the rainbow forecast was  just another crystal ball prophesy and look where we are today . He's a true example of a Snake Oil Salesman. The irony is he's a top officer of Local 591 and someone we should be able to depend on to help his President, Gary Peterson, negotiate the contract we all need. I don't know how you feel about it, but I'm sure as hell not impressed! And don't give me the crap about the former leadership, they're gone and we're up at bat. Let's get our s--t together.

 
Wow, hey nice rant.  Who are you kidding, just how much real influence would Bob have in negotiations?  Or; for that matter, how much of Gary Peterson's input - would actually be considered?  Don't act like you don't know how negotiations are "really" conducted. There is waay too much input from the International.   Tell you what, extract all the international reps from the negotiations, and actually leave the A/C Maint. negotiations up to Local 591 & 514, and I would consider that a step in the right direction.
As far as former leadership goes, I suppose you would want that buried, I would be embarrassed as well.  Hell, I'm embarrassed to say I belong to the TWU.