American Airline Mechanics couldn't have rejected a much better contract

[CMH_GSE]

Yep, it was all my fault.
Even though I wasn't part of the crack negotiating squad that took over 2 freaking years to come up with that **** sandwich.

Meanwhile, it took the pilots and FAs all of 4 months to get a JCBA with massive raises.


I welcome anyone that hasn't read it, to read thru this thread from beginning to end and see what a disaster that negotiating team from TWU was.

There really is no way to try and spin the 2010 TA into anything other than an abject failure that it was.

Again, this didn't get voted down by a few votes, it was a MANDATE by the membership that it was dead on arrival. My little ol vote meant nothing.

 

[MetalMover]

Yep, it was all my fault.
Even though I wasn't part of the crack negotiating squad that took over 2 freaking years to come up with that #### sandwich.

Meanwhile, it took the pilots and FAs all of 4 months to get a JCBA with massive raises.


I welcome anyone that hasn't read it, to read thru this thread from beginning to end and see what a disaster that negotiating team from TWU was.

There really is no way to try and spin the 2010 TA into anything other than an abject failure that it was.

Again, this didn't get voted down by a few votes, it was a MANDATE by the membership that it was dead on arrival. My little ol vote meant nothing.

Ok, so now AMFA is out of the picture.....We still have to wait for the NMB's final determination. they we have to wait for the association to waltz through negotiations. keep in mind UA/CO still have no contract after 5 years and that is with the SAME union.
Who gets the blame form this moment forward for future delays?

 

[Vortilon]

Vort, this is an epic bump that was needed.
I also got to post#5 and stopped reading, Bob hits a lot of high points as to why it sucked but there were many other things about the contract that , in the whole sum of it, was an insult.

I said in an earlier post to Overspeed, referencing this TA and the so called "vote no" coalition.
This thing went down in flames, not by just a few votes.

That TA, was certainly not one of the finer moments for the TWU.

The thing I remember about the TWO YEARS of negotiating (our last raise prior to that was May 1, 2008) was, what the hell is taking so long?
My mindset was, we did our part, we took our medicine, saved the company, they got profitable, let's go, give us back what we gave up.

My take from it is, the TWU was played for fools , by any measure, it wasn't a good look.

Let's put this TA into its full context.
It came to us 2 years and 4 months after a 40 cent per hour raise in 2008, and it was concessionary.

 
Yeah, I just laugh when I hear about a so called "vote no coalition".  Overspeed blathers on with his "hindsight is 20/20" perspective as if we all should have known that the TWU International was going to blow it for us.  Okay, well he has got us there.  Seriously though, our expectations after such along time of being stuck in the suck with no real raises or improvements were much much higher than what was proposed.  Just go back to some of the other threads from that era, and it only reinforces our sentiments at the time....

 

[bigjets]

Mitch has shown no love of AMR management in the past; in fact, it's been the exact opposite. I also agree with him. I'm not surprised the vote was no, but this was about as good as could be expected, and I don't think you're going to see anything materially better, whether it be consensual negotiations, or a PEB.

Maybe using baseball arbitration as a solution wasn't such a bad idea after all...

How right E was, kind of makes the vote NO know nothing's look like half wits.

Please don't confuse the know nothing's, with no voters.

The know nothing's are the guys spouting off with wrong information, thinking they were going to hold out for something better, because they had the company by the short hairs.

Then there were the guys that thought they would vote no because working weekends was an attack on their home life/ OT.

ALWAYS REMEMBER you lost out because of hubris. Just like we are all losing out now because the IAM wouldn't make a deal with USAIR until they got a contract. And we will never be satisfied with the twu because of their past disrespect towards its own members.

 

[Overspeed]

Do you really think we would haven't gotten the same contract the MCTs got? How many of them were there at that time? They are all in one location with nothing to divide them against each other. No way were the mechanics getting the deal they got.

The point is that the MCTs accepted their TA and we're not asked to cut pay. They got the same raise percentage we were offered and they took it. We voted it down and got nothing for all the years following. So was giving up approximately $10K a year plus other items like 100% SK pay worth it? I guess in your mind the answer us yes. You win then.

 

[Overspeed]

Yep, it was all my fault.
Even though I wasn't part of the crack negotiating squad that took over 2 freaking years to come up with that #### sandwich.
Meanwhile, it took the pilots and FAs all of 4 months to get a JCBA with massive raises.
I welcome anyone that hasn't read it, to read thru this thread from beginning to end and see what a disaster that negotiating team from TWU was.
There really is no way to try and spin the 2010 TA into anything other than an abject failure that it was.
Again, this didn't get voted down by a few votes, it was a MANDATE by the membership that it was dead on arrival. My little ol vote meant nothing.

True it was voted down. What's still quite obvious is that even now most still believe the videos from the vote no coalition then what was actually in the TA. But hey, you gave up 5 years of 100% SK pay and about $10K in value per year. And AA filed BK and then took more from us. The AMR former BOD thanks you for your yes vote and generation donation to their golden parachute package. You sure showed them.

 

[CMH_GSE]

I never saw a single video from this outlaw organization that you speak of.

I read the TA, and I thought,
2 plus years of negotiating after 5 straight years of 40 cent per hour raises and that's all there is?

Again, we have a bit more context now, hindsight makes it look even worse in my eyes.
Pilots and FAs, 4 months and contract done, pilots get 27% raise.

The TWU didn't even talk money with the company for the first 2 years of negotiations.
I mean, what the hell were they talking about?
The money was all done in the last few months, because , you know, those negotiators are the smartest guys in any room they walk into.

They really showed em didn't they...

 

[Overspeed]

CMH_GSE,
Well the 591 dream team will get is 2001 plus COLAs for the JCBA just you watch

 

[chilokie1]

CMH_GSE,
Well the 591 dream team will get is 2001 plus COLAs for the JCBA just you watch
 

I never saw a single video from this outlaw organization that you speak of.

I read the TA, and I thought,
2 plus years of negotiating after 5 straight years of 40 cent per hour raises and that's all there is?

Again, we have a bit more context now, hindsight makes it look even worse in my eyes.
Pilots and FAs, 4 months and contract done, pilots get 27% raise.

The TWU didn't even talk money with the company for the first 2 years of negotiations.
I mean, what the hell were they talking about?
The money was all done in the last few months, because , you know, those negotiators are the smartest guys in any room they walk into.

They really showed em didn't they

The Pig Hitler was hilarious

 

[Vortilon]

How right E was, kind of makes the vote NO know nothing's look like half wits.

Please don't confuse the know nothing's, with no voters.

The know nothing's are the guys spouting off with wrong information, thinking they were going to hold out for something better, because they had the company by the short hairs.

Then there were the guys that thought they would vote no because working weekends was an attack on their home life/ OT.

ALWAYS REMEMBER you lost out because of hubris. Just like we are all losing out now because the IAM wouldn't make a deal with USAIR until they got a contract. And we will never be satisfied with the twu because of their past disrespect towards its own members.

 
Know nothings?  Here you are reposting an entry made by a former member of the AA management team, and agreeing with him.  You are a weak sellout, the type that would cross a picket line.  Pretty tough talk from you on the keyboard, cause you know if you went to running your mouth like that in the breakroom, it would be the last time you ever tried that.

 

[bigjets]

I never saw a single video from this outlaw organization that you speak of.
I read the TA, and I thought,
2 plus years of negotiating after 5 straight years of 40 cent per hour raises and that's all there is?
Again, we have a bit more context now, hindsight makes it look even worse in my eyes.
Pilots and FAs, 4 months and contract done, pilots get 27% raise.
The TWU didn't even talk money with the company for the first 2 years of negotiations.
I mean, what the hell were they talking about?
The money was all done in the last few months, because , you know, those negotiators are the smartest guys in any room they walk into.
They really showed em didn't they...

Are comparing the twu 2010 TA to the 2015 post merger APFA and APA contracts?

 

[bigjets]

Know nothings?  Here you are reposting an entry made by a former member of the AA management team, and agreeing with him.  You are a weak sellout, the type that would cross a picket line.  Pretty tough talk from you on the keyboard, cause you know if you went to running your mouth like that in the breakroom, it would be the last time you ever tried that.

Let's see, you consider a sell out someone who would get an additional 3 weeks of sick time and over $40k in my pocket, while the know nothing's got us nothing for an additional 5 YEARS. Unlike you and your band of half wits, I said it then and I say now how stupid it was to vote that down, and I love calling guys out for how loud they were in 2010 for voting no, and pointing out how everything they said would happen didn't happen. They are mentally weak so I don't hit them too hard, because you can see the regret in their face and they are getting ready to cry.

2 years after financial colapse, the world economy was still recovering.
all legacy airlines shed retirement medical, pension and OH
And the know nothing's are saying 2001 contract plus.


They voted on emotion not on logical thought. And if you still think that NO was the right choice over $40k in your pocket, you have a husband that makes a lot of money or you are going through menopause.

 

[WeAAsles]

Let's see, you consider a sell out someone who would get an additional 3 weeks of sick time and over $40k in my pocket, while the know nothing's got us nothing for an additional 5 YEARS. Unlike you and your band of half wits, I said it then and I say now how stupid it was to vote that down, and I love calling guys out for how loud they were in 2010 for voting no, and pointing out how everything they said would happen didn't happen. They are mentally weak so I don't hit them too hard, because you can see the regret in their face and they are getting ready to cry.

2 years after financial colapse, the world economy was still recovering.
all legacy airlines shed retirement medical, pension and OH
And the know nothing's are saying 2001 contract plus.


They voted on emotion not on logical thought. And if you still think that NO was the right choice over $40k in your pocket, you have a husband that makes a lot of money or you are going through menopause.

The financial crisis of 2007–08, also known as the Global Financial Crisis and 2008 financial crisis, is considered by many economists to have been the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s.[1] It threatened the collapse of large financial institutions, which was prevented by the bailout of banks by national governments, but stock markets still dropped worldwide. In many areas, the housing market also suffered, resulting in evictions, foreclosures and prolonged unemployment. The crisis played a significant role in the failure of key businesses, declines in consumer wealth estimated in trillions of U.S. dollars, and a downturn in economic activity leading to the 2008–2012 global recession and contributing to the European sovereign-debt crisis.[2][3] The active phase of the crisis, which manifested as a liquidity crisis, can be dated from August 9, 2007, when BNP Paribas terminated withdrawals from three hedge funds citing "a complete evaporation of liquidity".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%9308

 

[Vortilon]

Let's see, you consider a sell out someone who would get an additional 3 weeks of sick time and over $40k in my pocket, while the know nothing's got us nothing for an additional 5 YEARS. Unlike you and your band of half wits, I said it then and I say now how stupid it was to vote that down, and I love calling guys out for how loud they were in 2010 for voting no, and pointing out how everything they said would happen didn't happen. They are mentally weak so I don't hit them too hard, because you can see the regret in their face and they are getting ready to cry.

2 years after financial colapse, the world economy was still recovering.
all legacy airlines shed retirement medical, pension and OH
And the know nothing's are saying 2001 contract plus.


They voted on emotion not on logical thought. And if you still think that NO was the right choice over $40k in your pocket, you have a husband that makes a lot of money or you are going through menopause.

 
You had no way of knowing what the outcome was gonna be if we voted down that POS!  For you and your Weaasle life partner even to suggest that is laughable. Go ahead and try and change the debate though, suggesting that we would have turned down the POS contract, knowing then - what we know now - that the TWU was gonna let us down. Then; if that wasn't enough, punish our group. I don't recall anybody ever shouting "vote no" about anything, it was more like a silent resentment.  A hatred if you will.  You know, there are not too many real vocal TWU supporters that I come accross; in fact, none.  There is nothing to brag about, nothing.
 
We should all be pretty stoked about another 2 to 3 years of protracted negotiations with another let down of a TA though.

 

[Vortilon]

The financial crisis of 2007–08, also known as the Global Financial Crisis and 2008 financial crisis, is considered by many economists to have been the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s.[1] It threatened the collapse of large financial institutions, which was prevented by the bailout of banks by national governments, but stock markets still dropped worldwide. In many areas, the housing market also suffered, resulting in evictions, foreclosures and prolonged unemployment. The crisis played a significant role in the failure of key businesses, declines in consumer wealth estimated in trillions of U.S. dollars, and a downturn in economic activity leading to the 2008–2012 global recession and contributing to the European sovereign-debt crisis.[2][3] The active phase of the crisis, which manifested as a liquidity crisis, can be dated from August 9, 2007, when BNP Paribas terminated withdrawals from three hedge funds citing "a complete evaporation of liquidity".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%9308

 
 
Maybe I had you pegged wrong as a TWU Intl stooge.  Behold, the Weaasle with yet another cut-n-paste from Wikipedia no less.  Looks more like a management perspective now.