100,000+ Employees for the new AA/US

[jimntx]

 
1.  and I don't appreciate many of the former TW flight attendants who are trying for an AFA card campaign or a representational election that is going to accomplish jack all other than kick the can down the road and further delay the negotiation of a contract for us all.
 
 
2.  Edit: I was not aware that Boeing put in a bid for TWA though; thanks for that. Although what interest they would have in owning a nearly bankrupt airline is something unknown?

Reply to statement 1:  FWIW the f/a who handed me a form to sign a card for AFA was not a former TW f/a.  She is a "native" AA who is several years senior to me.  The  APFA board did not cover themselves in glory when they recommended that we vote for that LBFO as "the best we can do under the circumstances" and then promptly voted themselves a raise to make up for all that was lost in the LBFO--incentive pay, International differential, etc.
 
Reply to statement 2:  It's hard to kill an airline.  Look at how long Eastern, and Braniff, and Pan Am limped along before going to glory.  There is always someone with more money than sense (Trump, Icahn, etc.) who thinks "I can succeed where others have failed."  And, there's a certain cachet to owning an airline, don't you think? 

 

[jimntx]

 
However your union remark confused me-- check with your friend again, the flight attendants elected AFA as their bargaining representative back in 2010 and voted in a CBA shortly thereafter.

You are correct.  My bad.  My friend was fighting for another union to represent them.  Being a typical f/a she refuses to acknowledge that they are now represented because they didn't pick the one she wanted.  LOL
 
Edit:  Well, that and the fact the proposed buyers are insisting that the f/as give up the company equity that CBA got them with nothing in return.

 

[jimntx]

Busted! You walked right into that one!! WT

Artemis Ward once said, "It ain't the things that we know that get us in trouble.  It's the things that we know that ain't so."  But, since I expect the reference will be lost on you, go back to your world where galley gossip is more accurate than what is in black and white on paper.

 

[silverbird007]

WT how do you keep up with all of this? I see how you get confused sometimes!

 

[silverbird007]

jimntx why did you answer my post to WT? oops like I said !!  BUSTED! That explains why you e-mailed me a few months ago defending WT as if you were WT. That's because you are WT!!  LOL Stop getting your panties in a wad because you got busted!

 

[eolesen]

Jim, both UA and DL mainline have a higher average seat density, driven by more widebodies. Same with their regional mix, since AA was quite late to the game with being able to fly >50 seats.

That's going to affect the revenue comparisons a bit.


Using the 757 as the dividing line for midbody/widebody (A321 stays below the line, since it doesn't have the international range or the seat density of the 757), the comparisons of fleet mix are somewhat striking:

Using Wiki's somewhat questionable fleet counts:

DL's got 300 MWB's out of ~730, or ~41%

UA's got ~295 out of ~696, or 42%.

AA's got ~220 out of ~615, or ~35%

US has ~55 out of ~334, or ~16%.

Merged, MWB's come out to ~28% of the new AA fleet, which is lower than it is today.

That diversity of fleet mix works against attempts to try and do a binary comparison, which is why the analysts have their own models to adjust their comparisons for stage length, seat density, etc...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Wrong again!  I'm a DFW-D f/a.  I am a "native" American.  Never worked for any other airline.

 
I'm honored that anyone who stands against the groupthink of this board is labeled a "WT" 
 
Seriously, Jim is absolutely correct and those who can't grasp what is saying are the ones who will have the greatest falling coming.
 
You can come up with all of the formulae you want to try and compare but all airlines publish 3 numbers that are relevant here.... total revenue, employee costs, and capacity.
 
On the basis of those 3 numbers, AA/US is bloated compared to other carriers that will be its direct peers.  
 
IF AA/US do more insourcing, then that should show up as revenue.  If they have larger owned regionals, then their purchased RJ servisse costs should be lower.
 
AA didn't make the number of employee furloughs in 2003 because they were expecting that a competitor would fail.  AA has been overstaffed for the past 10 years.
 
AA didn't make the cuts in the current BK because labor was ready to pitch another royal fit (do we forget what happened just a year ago) so the creditors told mgmt to stand down and  instead  they supported a merger which throws thousands of extra employees into Parker's lap.
 
The creditors will get their payday long before Parker has to get tough on cutting costs for the new AA but the cuts will come or AA won't survive if not corrected because it will be paying hundreds of millions more in costs than its competitors.  Parker knows that but he is going to talk about all that is good until the deal is done and everyone who has an opportunity to object is marginalized... and Parker himself will walk away with a big fat check.
 
something tells me we will be revisiting this topic in the future to show that those simple believers were dead wrong. 

 

[eolesen]

Well, as I said it a couple hundred times thru the process... this *is* the airline the employees @ AA asked for.

There's no questioning that AA's overstaffed. The employees know it, despite the state of denial that some here seem to exhibit.

That doesn't change the fact that they'd all prefer that the axes start swinging elsewhere, something that as an outsider, you seem to have no appreciation for.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I absolutely do appreciate it because that is human nature.

And you absolutely have said that AA employees signed onto a deal that gave them what they wanted to hear without consideration of the other parts of the package that we all knew had to be there.. including certain cuts in the numbers of employees. The aggressive flight schedule by both AA and US is just an attempt to use as many employees as they can as long as the inflated headcount remains.

The benefits of the merger won't come if new AA retains as much capacity as the combined AA/US currently has.

But given that we do in fact agree that AA is overstaffed which has been discussed here for quite some time, then expecting someone else to pay the bill is not terribly realistic, even if our human nature always wants to believe the best and deny the worst.

 

[jimntx]

Jim, both UA and DL mainline have a higher average seat density, driven by more widebodies. Same with their regional mix, since AA was quite late to the game with being able to fly >50 seats.

That's going to affect the revenue comparisons a bit.

E, you need to start addressing me as WT.  The genius, Silverbird007, has determined that WT and I are the same person.  Silverbird007 couldn't possibly be wrong.  He/she got it straight from the next door neighbor of the hairdresser of his/her aunt's yard guy's daughter who  was the #2 on Silverbird007's last all-nighter.  He/she heard it in the galley.  So, it must be true. 

 

[jimntx]

The overstaffing situation reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon that I saw a number of years ago.
 
Asok was doing a presentation to the rest.  He started with telling them that "I won't sugarcoat things.  Our financial condition is perilous.  Our new corporate symbol is a guy being flushed down a toilet headfirst.  Our new company slogan is 'Hide by day.  Forage at night.'  I will now pass out baseball bats.  You decide among yourselves how to reduce staff by 10%."
 
One of the others turned to Dilbert and said, "I think I liked it better when they sugarcoated things."
 
That is what's happening now.  There's so much sugar being added to the mix, make sure you have the telephone number of a good dentist.
 
P.S.  With all thest stats showing too many a/c and too many employees, I just read a Jetnet email that said we are now going to hire more than the additional 1500 flight attendants.  No max was given.  Have to ask...are these furlough fodder to make sure that the company can keep the furlough protection promise made to the rest of us that Ad Astra mentioned yesterday?

 

[silverbird007]

WT/jmntx I guess ill have to put both of your screen names on ignore since you are one and the same. let me guess ex TWA fa, very bitter about your life so you go on the AA forum and trash AA till the day you die. Dude like I said many times before Get a Life take care of your cats and enjoy your ignore!

 

[IORFA]

Probably makes it easier and quicker to replace the next VEOP group. They are being super picky with these new hires, so ramping it up for some unknown quantity of F/A's isn't so easy. Not sure why they are so picky, I ran into a real peach last week at Airbus training. Her "awesome" attitude will go over well here. She hadn't even graduated yet! My opinion so far is that AA is treating these new hires with kid gloves for some reason. They hired adults, yet seem to feel the need to treat them as children. It is crazy and disgusting all at the same time!

 

[jimntx]

WT/jmntx I guess ill have to put both of your screen names on ignore since you are one and the same. let me guess ex TWA fa, very bitter about your life so you go on the AA forum and trash AA till the day you die. Dude like I said many times before Get a Life take care of your cats and enjoy your ignore!

Silverbird007, when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing is to stop digging.  I'm not ex-TWA.  I'm just senior to them--Sept, 2000 hire date.  And, if you think that I care what you think of me, let me tell you that I don't really think it any of my business.  Nor, do I care.  If anyone sounds bitter, it's you.  You are so uninformed that you are afraid that anyone who suggests that AA is less than perfect might be right, and you might have to go get a real job.

 

[eolesen]

WT/jmntx I guess ill have to put both of your screen names on ignore since you are one and the same. let me guess ex TWA fa, very bitter about your life so you go on the AA forum and trash AA till the day you die. Dude like I said many times before Get a Life take care of your cats and enjoy your ignore!

You must be really junior around here.... Those of use who've been around a while know better.