We will see tomorrow.
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ALPA/USAPA/Pilot Labor Thread for the week 4/12-4/19
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
- Status
Pretty sad then, so many of your ardent supporters didn't even bother to vote.
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
See. I knew that East and West would agree on something.
By the way, hope you're not implying that there is some ALPA supporter on the "inside" working this issue for you. Better not be. The lawsuits will be never ending. I assure you of that!
wopr21
Senior
- Aug 13, 2004
- 260
- 26
Hmmm. I wasn't contacted by the "west war room" , Was anybody else?
You would think to be accurate that everyone would be polled
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
No it's not, because you have no clue who did or didn't vote from the east anymore than I do. But using your figures, you still lose. Non voters actually work in our favor. Just so long as 50%+1 vote. That seems to be no problem.
If he did, then it would mean someone was getting info from the NMB or BallotPoint that shouldn't have been available. hmmm.........
YVINTERN
Veteran
Do we need to ask the Moderators for a SA2O to the Cornfields now? Play nice and I'm not a wannabe pilot I just play a Wannabe Airline Pilot on Television, I'm really the Corporate type who aspires someday to run his own airline company so give me a break *crunches* Not the Kit Kats though.
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
He should be asking himself just who would want to be an airline pilot this day-in-age? I told my kids that I would cut them out of the will if they even THOUGHT about doing something as dumb as that! They're smart enough to have REAL careers!
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
Let me slow this down for you:
The company has already been passed a list. USAPA's entire premise (indeed, the reason for the union in the first place) is for the folks on the East side to try to take what binding arbitration denied them--a DOH list. Several problems with that premise:
1. It assumes that "seniority is negotiable." Fine. Get the company to buy a DOH list and then use the tyranny of the majority to implement it.
2. United buys US. An A-M integration happens. The UA majority then reorders the list to place all former East pilots on the bottom of the list and uses the tyranny of their majority to implement it.
If #1 works, so does #2.
This does not even begin to take into account the reordering that will occur on/within the East list in #1. That alone is gonna prove pretty thorny--it's essentially whichever bloc has the most votes.
Even if USAPA does get voted in, any list they produce that's not Nic-based will get tossed in court, and at very best it's back to an arbitrator. USAPA's CBLs are irrelevant in that case.
It's a shame that the entire premise of this nonsense is because the East pilots were too stupid (or F'ing stupid, in west parlance) in their arbitration strategy. Changing the union won't allow a DOH cramdown, nor will it "fix stupid," apparently.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
Um... only thing is, if "USAPA spots you a couple of hundred" then presumably those 200 are East pilots voting for ALPA, causing a swing of 400 votes, putting ALPA ahead. You should check your math.
If just 10% (a very realistic, even conservative number) of the East voting pilots vote for ALPA, and assuming 100% of the West voting pilots do so as well you would end up with 1924 (1715+209) for ALPA, and 1885 (2094-209) for USAPA. Guess what? In that case YOU LOSE!
Don't count your chickens until their hatched.
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
Guess we find out tomorrow.
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
This is cracking me up. WTF, it's a SECRET ballot, how does anyone know percentages!? What, are the Westies using Ouija boards now?
Later,
Eye
Later,
Eye
YVINTERN
Veteran
That's a smart thing to tell your kids...I'd tell my kids to become Airline Executives so they can do what Doug Parker, Glenn Tilton, or they could be classy like Bethune and write Books like "From Ugly, to Beautiful".
E
EastUS
Guest
QUOTE (oldiebutgoody @ Apr 16 2008, 09:25 PM)
He should be asking himself just who would want to be an airline pilot this day-in-age? I told my kids that I would cut them out of the will if they even THOUGHT about doing something as dumb as that! They're smart enough to have REAL careers!"
I'm in full agreement..except for the bit about "so they can do". There's plenty of honorable ways to acquire large sums of money without BS and theft being involved. As the technology evolves and planes continually "get smarter"...the people within them can be "dumbed down" with less adversarial effects...case in point = "hey wanna be pilot stay out of big people business and keep your comments you know jack about to yourself." This doesn't even factor in the likelihood of eventual control from the ground. The advice I find myself giving to any young person who's bright, aggressive and ambitious is prefaced by the question: "Do you NEED to fly?" If they answer in the affirmative...I suggest the military, as that's about the only place one can actually FLY for pay, and have some serious adventures along the way. Of course..there's an enormous amount of BS that goes with that package as well. For any/all that don't have a deep-seated, passionate compulsion to fly...I always suggest finding a suitable career/business path that will allow the eventual purchase of an aircraft or two as toys. As far as becoming a commercial airline pilot?...All I usually need do is describe what it WAS like...what it's like now, and what it seems that the future eventually holds. The once great Profession is nowadays clearly deteriorating towards the lowest common denominators....(I are a pylut...see!?..I bought a license!) pretty much akin to what happened with the railroads..after the great, and highly complex steam engines were replaced with far simpler diesels....and eventually..far simpler requirements for people.
Ah well...less than 14 hours now.
He should be asking himself just who would want to be an airline pilot this day-in-age? I told my kids that I would cut them out of the will if they even THOUGHT about doing something as dumb as that! They're smart enough to have REAL careers!"
I'm in full agreement..except for the bit about "so they can do". There's plenty of honorable ways to acquire large sums of money without BS and theft being involved. As the technology evolves and planes continually "get smarter"...the people within them can be "dumbed down" with less adversarial effects...case in point = "hey wanna be pilot stay out of big people business and keep your comments you know jack about to yourself." This doesn't even factor in the likelihood of eventual control from the ground. The advice I find myself giving to any young person who's bright, aggressive and ambitious is prefaced by the question: "Do you NEED to fly?" If they answer in the affirmative...I suggest the military, as that's about the only place one can actually FLY for pay, and have some serious adventures along the way. Of course..there's an enormous amount of BS that goes with that package as well. For any/all that don't have a deep-seated, passionate compulsion to fly...I always suggest finding a suitable career/business path that will allow the eventual purchase of an aircraft or two as toys. As far as becoming a commercial airline pilot?...All I usually need do is describe what it WAS like...what it's like now, and what it seems that the future eventually holds. The once great Profession is nowadays clearly deteriorating towards the lowest common denominators....(I are a pylut...see!?..I bought a license!) pretty much akin to what happened with the railroads..after the great, and highly complex steam engines were replaced with far simpler diesels....and eventually..far simpler requirements for people.
Ah well...less than 14 hours now.
cactushead-west
Newbie
- Apr 8, 2008
- 9
- 0
See. Thats your problem. You don't see this job as one of passion. I grew up wanting nothing more than to do what I'm doing today. Sure I can't go buy a new Cadillac with my first paycheck. But I can enjoy more time at home with my family and friends more with this job than any as compared to my friends who pursued other endevours. We need help in restoring what it was we all signed up for in the first place.
I love nothing more than the exhilaration of landing a large craft with hundreds of people hoping I know what I'm doing behind me.
I still love this job. My younger brother was bitten by a similar bug and I have done everything to reassure him that this is the place to be.
I love my job. And those same friends are envious of my determination to get there and only applaud what it was that I've achieved. They say, especially drunkenly, that they are so jealous of my situation. Not that they have a clue about what were going through. But rather that since they've known me, this is all I've ever wanted.
So yes. My wife and I are trying to make a baby. If that little runt gets stung by the same aviation bug that my brother and I got hit with, I will be the first to encourage that.
I love my job and no matter what it takes, there is nothing better.
Sure would be nice to buy a new Cadillac though!
e
I love nothing more than the exhilaration of landing a large craft with hundreds of people hoping I know what I'm doing behind me.
I still love this job. My younger brother was bitten by a similar bug and I have done everything to reassure him that this is the place to be.
I love my job. And those same friends are envious of my determination to get there and only applaud what it was that I've achieved. They say, especially drunkenly, that they are so jealous of my situation. Not that they have a clue about what were going through. But rather that since they've known me, this is all I've ever wanted.
So yes. My wife and I are trying to make a baby. If that little runt gets stung by the same aviation bug that my brother and I got hit with, I will be the first to encourage that.
I love my job and no matter what it takes, there is nothing better.
Sure would be nice to buy a new Cadillac though!
e
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