ALPA Thread 12/14-12/20 ALL ALPA here

[TechBoy]

Let me explain it to you this way.....

If I get on flight and there is some young puke form the west in the left seat and a senior East pilot in the right, the captain will get an ear full and I WILL walk off the plane

I think that it was Herb that said that some customers are just not worth having. I think that you fall into that category. (And, to be clear, I'm a customer too.)

 

[cactusboy53]

Shows how much you know....I'm a customer

I am sorry that you feel that way sir/madam. Would you kindly step off of the airplane and see the gate agent? I'm sure that they will be able to help you. Thank you for attempting to fly the New US Airways, and thank you for vacating a seat that can now be used by a non-revenue employee traveler. Have a wonderful day!

 

[prechilill]

View attachment Santa.ppt

Don't get your hopes up Rudolph...there's still the issue about your nose barely lighting up, and then none too brightly, and none of the other reindeer see you ever joining in any reindeer games

 

[EastUS]

View attachment 6885

Again referencing your nose only lighting up "none too brightly"...you've fancifully distributed even numbers of "reindeer" in your "card".....a condition which exists only in your imagination

Enjoy your NicCracker ballet Christmas fantasy...although you might best spend less time dancing around the magic koolaide fountain with the Sugar Plum Faeries 😉

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE (longing4piedmont @ Dec 14 2007, 10:16 PM)
Let me explain it to you this way.....

If I get on flight and there is some young puke form the west in the left seat and a senior East pilot in the right, the captain will get an ear full and I WILL walk off the plane"

I am sorry that you feel that way sir/madam.........

A question = WHY in the world might anyone "feel that way"?

 

[P51Pilot]

Prove it! Re-engage the JNC and let's see what they can accomplish. What do you have to lose?

ALPA is done on the East. Negotiating talks will re-engage but USAPA will be the collective bargaining unit. ALPA may have had a chance, if the separate but equivalent contracts with permanent separate operations concept had been adopted at the beginning of this mess. ALPA walked away from the only solution that might have saved them and that is a big might at that. They did everyone a favor, good bye ALPA and good riddance.

 

[EastUS]

ALPA is done on the East. Negotiating talks will re-engage but USAPA will be the collective bargaining unit. ALPA may have had a chance, if the separate but equivalent contracts with permanent separate operations concept had been adopted at the beginning of this mess. ALPA walked away from the only solution that might have saved them and that is a big might at that. They did everyone a favor, good bye ALPA and good riddance.

"They did everyone a favor, good bye ALPA and good riddance." Amen twice over

 

[b737fo]

ALPA is done on the East. Negotiating talks will re-engage but USAPA will be the collective bargaining unit. ALPA may have had a chance, if the separate but equivalent contracts with permanent separate operations concept had been adopted at the beginning of this mess. ALPA walked away from the only solution that might have saved them and that is a big might at that. They did everyone a favor, good bye ALPA and good riddance.

Too bad there is not another bargaining agent trying to represent the pilots of the new US Airways. So far it seems that a lot of the easties are sick of ALPA while out west USAPA has been totally disengaged with their so called
"desired constituency".

From the USAPA website: "It's your union, beholden to no one, serving only the US Airways pilots"
Ha! What a complete joke. If it is supposed to by my union then why was I locked out of the forums when they were open. Nothing like making me feel at home in this new union. <_<

 

[EastUS]

Too bad there is not another bargaining agent trying to represent the pilots of the new US Airways. So far it seems that a lot of the easties are sick of ALPA while out west USAPA has been totally disengaged with their so called
"desired constituency".

From the USAPA website: "It's your union, beholden to no one, serving only the US Airways pilots"
Ha! What a complete joke. If it is supposed to by my union then why was I locked out of the forums when they were open. Nothing like making me feel at home in this new union. <_<

It's extremely unfortunate that Alpo's so perfectly proven itself to be nothing more than a self serving, dysfunctional and corrupt entity that has placed us all in this situation to start with. ANY slightest semblance of a "union" wouldn't have done the decades of damage Alpo has, much less dropped a massive, steaming, and wholly unworkable scenario like Nic on portions of it's membership...and then just walked away. Permanent damage to east/west feelings has been accomplished. A more perfectly divided set of labor groups couldn't have been handed on a platter to the greed-soaked Sand People in "management" other than through Alpo's brilliantly constructed "Perfect Storm". East and west getting together as a single work group, that has any chance at obtaining better working conditions and benefits than currently exist, has been so well torpedoed by Alpo that it will take some time and serious effort to even start towards that goal. I do have some optimism in thinking that we'll eventually all work this mess out and see better times ahead.

 

[b737fo]

It's extremely unfortunate that Alpo's so perfectly proven itself to be nothing more than a self serving, dysfunctional and corrupt entity that has placed us all in this situation to start with. ANY slightest semblance of a "union" wouldn't have done the decades of damage Alpo has, much less dropped a massive, steaming, and wholly unworkable scenario like Nic on portions of it's membership...and then just walked away. Permanent damage to east/west feelings has been accomplished. A more perfectly divided set of labor groups couldn't have been handed on a platter to the greed-soaked Sand People in "management" other than through Alpo's brilliantly constructed "Perfect Storm". East and west getting together as a single work group, that has any chance at obtaining better working conditions and benefits than currently exist, has been so well torpedoed by Alpo that it will take some time and serious effort to even start towards that goal. I do have some optimism in thinking that we'll eventually all work this mess out and see better times ahead.

I too believe we will work this all out eventually. After all, we are still cut from the same cloth even though we come from different backgrounds with different experiences. There will always be the pilots on both sides of the Miss. river who would rather cast stones at each other than work on the nuts and bolts of this issue because that is the easy way out. The hard part is to engage what I believe is the silent majority who would rather see this situation fixed. We spin our wheels grandstanding on black and white principles on both sides of this fence when the answer is some shade of grey. Meanwhile our window for obtaining a fair and decent contract maybe be closing as this economy is slowing down.

As Marsellus Wallace said in Pulp Fiction: "That's pride f*&!ing with you. F*&! pride."

Remember who our real adversary is. Fighting a two front war is rarely successful.

 

[EastUS]

I too believe we will work this all out eventually. After all, we are still cut from the same cloth even though we come from different backgrounds with different experiences. There will always be the pilots on both sides of the Miss. river who would rather cast stones at each other than work on the nuts and bolts of this issue because that is the easy way out. The hard part is to engage what I believe is the silent majority who would rather see this situation fixed. We spin our wheels grandstanding on black and white principles on both sides of this fence when the answer is some shade of grey. Meanwhile our window for obtaining a fair and decent contract maybe be closing as this economy is slowing down.

As Marsellus Wallace said in Pulp Fiction: "That's pride f*&!ing with you. F*&! pride."

Remember who our real adversary is. Fighting a two front war is rarely successful.

I know of no one out east that doesn't wish for a resolution to this mess. Posted or verbal variations of west "Nic's our Darling Daddy!.. Nyaah Nyaahs!!" and east "Oh yeah?...Yo Momma little biatches!!" serve only to vent and afford amusement. The problems as most of us out east appear to see them are twofold. Firstly; Alpo's got to go...period, and secondly; no contract that provides for the evisceration of two decades of work in favor of a single year out west will pass any acceptable test vis a vis being "fair and decent".

As for any concerns with the economic window?...There's zero way by which some fabulous contract's going to be achieved untill much is otherwise worked out. We've seen just how little the sand castle's lunatic inmates think of our worth as employees via their opening offer. It's extremely naieve to even imagine that any "instant contract" is even possible with these people. I've the fullest doubts that they'd even actually sign off on what they've supposedly offered for that matter. Barring some perceived utility for them within the context of some imminent merger/whatever...there's zero reasons for them to seek expeditious contract resolution of ANY sort...and that renders any concerns for any imagined window of opportunity moot. Were Alpo to maintain on the property...management's hearty laughter would be heard worldwide. It'll take a tougher bunch to get anything out of those clowns in Tempe.

For the wisdom of Marsellus Wallace in Pulp Fiction: That character's speech wasn't anything more than a punk gangsta' trying to convince a capable fighter to throw a fight....and we've all heard plenty of that BS from the west for over half a year now. I'll stick with maintaining some pride 😉

Side thougts: I do wonder at the "Merry Christmas" timing of Prater-the-Hutt's gift giving, coupled with the current climate of "Who's merging next?" It's hardly like Alpo/managment connivance isn't an established practice. One thing's very certain: Prater and his pathetic ilk care nothing about any of us.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I too believe we will work this all out eventually. After all, we are still cut from the same cloth even though we come from different backgrounds with different experiences. There will always be the pilots on both sides of the Miss. river who would rather cast stones at each other than work on the nuts and bolts of this issue because that is the easy way out. The hard part is to engage what I believe is the silent majority who would rather see this situation fixed. We spin our wheels grandstanding on black and white principles on both sides of this fence when the answer is some shade of grey. Meanwhile our window for obtaining a fair and decent contract maybe be closing as this economy is slowing down.

As Marsellus Wallace said in Pulp Fiction: "That's pride f*&!ing with you. F*&! pride."

Remember who our real adversary is. Fighting a two front war is rarely successful.

I agree that there is a silent majority who just want to see this thing "fixed," as you say.

The problem is that east of the Mississippi and west of the Mississippi have their own definition of the "problem" and what "fixed" would look like.

And really, your quote is not germane to what is going on here. It has little to do with pride. It has everything to do with compensation and quality of life. As a former Piedmonster, I have not had pride in the airline I work for since 1987. So pride for me is a non-issue among many REAL issues.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I am sorry that you feel that way sir/madam. Would you kindly step off of the airplane and see the gate agent? I'm sure that they will be able to help you. Thank you for attempting to fly the New US Airways, and thank you for vacating a seat that can now be used by a non-revenue employee traveler. Have a wonderful day!

So what? Let ALPO present the list. Parker and Kirby have come out on the record stating they don't think the list if fair. Remember the "lottery ticket" analogy from Kirby? They get what you HP guys don't get: They realize where the revenue butter is spread at this airline and it's not west of the Mississippi. You piss off the majority of the pilots in the money-making part of the airline you're a moron. Parker and Kirby aren't the morons a group of pilots out west are.

Later,
Eye

 

[b737fo]

I know of no one out east that doesn't wish for a resolution to this mess. Posted or verbal variations of west "Nic's our Darling Daddy!.. Nyaah Nyaahs!!" and east "Oh yeah?...Yo Momma little biatches!!" serve only to vent and afford amusement. The problems as most of us out east appear to see them are twofold. Firstly; Alpo's got to go...period, and secondly; no contract that provides for the evisceration of two decades of work in favor of a single year out west will pass any acceptable test vis a vis being "fair and decent".

As for any concerns with the economic window?...There's zero way by which some fabulous contract's going to be achieved untill much is otherwise worked out. We've seen just how little the sand castle's lunatic inmates think of our worth as employees via their opening offer. It's extremely naieve to even imagine that any "instant contract" is even possible with these people. I've the fullest doubts that they'd even actually sign off on what they've supposedly offered for that matter. Barring some perceived utility for them within the context of some imminent merger/whatever...there's zero reasons for them to seek expeditious contract resolution of ANY sort...and that renders any concerns for any imagined window of opportunity moot. Were Alpo to maintain on the property...management's hearty laughter would be heard worldwide. It'll take a tougher bunch to get anything out of those clowns in Tempe.

No contract that provides for a furloughed pilot (at time of merger) to be on a seniority list ahead of a captain will pass any acceptable test out west either.

As to your second point, I believe that the perceived utility of needing a joint contract is already here for management Just look at the stock price and the analyst downgrades of the last couple weeks. Many have sited perceived labor integration issues as the cause of the sinking price of LCC which as we all know adversely affects managements gold lined pockets. That is why this window of opportunity seems more real than imagined.

 

[EastUS]

No contract that provides for a furloughed pilot (at time of merger) to be on a seniority list ahead of a captain will pass any acceptable test out west either.

As to your second point, I believe that the perceived utility of needing a joint contract is already here for management Just look at the stock price and the analyst downgrades of the last couple weeks. Many have sited perceived labor integration issues as the cause of the sinking price of LCC which as we all know adversely affects managements gold lined pockets. That is why this window of opportunity seems more real than imagined.

1) I wasn't speaking of furloughed folks, but rather all those who would still suffer two decades worth of degradation in favor of some virtual new hire out west. The obscene seniority slaughter that'd be the result of Nic's just plain NOT going to sell out east....ever....period. As for anyone being "a captain"...next time you're around any group of east folks...check and see just how very, very few, if ANY in a given group, have only three stripes on their coats.....and you'd have truckloads of them placed behind 1-3 year AWA wunderkind? Good luck with that.

2) I see absolutely NO reason to agree with your asessment of there being any great window of opportunity that'll presumably somehow be missed by the east defending ourselves against both Alpo and their bastard child Nic. Given that management's loudly stated that even parity for the east woud increase costs by 120 million...how does it follow that any huge financial benefit will accrue to the Sand Castle via any combined contract? They've ample reasons to continue playing games. Recall that they've done exactly that for over two years now...during the recent period of which time the battle cry out west has been "no parity without Nic!"..for which fabulous fraternal support we're very greatful of course.

Regardless of the west positon, and/or any great passions associated with the same.....the two groups' total voting numbers must tell the story. Hey..7 months ago I started by posting little more than "Let's figure out a way to fix this mess". No one out west has actually yet shown the slightest notion of doing anything other than blowing Nic Victory trumpets...or more realistically, as it's developing....kazoos.