ALPA Thread 12/14-12/20 ALL ALPA here

[oldiebutgoody]

They are bound, under the RLA a change in representation does not void an arbitration, a transition agreement or a CBA, they new union is bound by law to enforce any exsisting agreements.

How many times do I have to tell you that?

You're STILL wrong. How many times do you have to ask that? The arbitration ONLY applies to the present situation. Once a new negotiation begins, all bets are off. EVERYTHING is subject to negotiation. If the new union wants to reorder the list to give brown eyed pilots seniority over blue eyed pilots, they can do that. EVERYTHING is subject to renegotiation under the new CBA. It just has to be fair by some standard, and it must be ratified as a new CBA by the pilots and the company. Personally, I would like to see everyone get their proper seniority, including the Empire pilots, MDA pilots and anyone else that should have been given full credit for service to make this company successful (if you call it that).

Yes, the company has to abide by the old CBA until a new one is ratified by both the company and the pilots, just as the pilots have to. The fact that the CBA is really the transition agreement and does not include the Nic award means that if USAPA wins the election, the Nic award MAY BE negotiated out of meaningful existence. That is, according to the USAPA lawyers, the cold, hard fact.

 

[700UW]

Your wrong, plain and simple.

There are case precedents all ready set, at UA, NW, WN with a change of representation does not affect arbitration or cbas.

I have held numerous positions within the IAM, taken many college labor classes and been a member of a negotiating committee.

The seniority issue is in the T/A and is part of your CBA.

I hope you fly better than you interpet the RLA and NMB Rules.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Your wrong, plain and simple.

There are case precedents all ready set, at UA, NW, WN with a change of representation does not affect arbitration or cbas.

I have held numerous positions within the IAM, taken many college labor classes and been a member of a negotiating committee.

The seniority issue is in the T/A and is part of your CBA.

I hope you fly better than you interpet the RLA and NMB Rules.

No, You're wrong. Even Bear96, a lawyer, says so. Go shill for your own union. The pilots have enough to deal with.

 

[EastUS]

I have held numerous positions within the IAM, taken many college labor classes and been a member of a negotiating committee.

Whew!...That settles it for sure then No reason for us to ask the lawyers anything...sigh. Ummm..is the IAM's use, (much like Alpo's), of amateur negotiators like yourself that've "taken many college labor classes" (you really did say that in any hopes that it would impress?) any small reason for all their great successes in recent years? Your postings, combined with the evident disgust for the IAM so clearly shown on other threads...well...it kinda' makes me think that the IAM's about as pathetic as ALPO, and also designed to keep career drones happy at the expense of the actual workers.

 

[700UW]

Guess you cant take it when you wrong.

Show me where under the RLA and NMB where you do whatever you want and ignore arbitration awards under the RLA.

No shill here, just the facts, no need to lash out when you are shown to be wrong.

 

[Bear96]

They are bound, under the RLA a change in representation does not void an arbitration, a transition agreement or a CBA, they new union is bound by law to enforce any exsisting agreements.

How many times do I have to tell you that?

Did you miss the part where I agreed that USAPA would be bound by the Nic award?

 

[700UW]

I was replying to oldie, not you, he keeps insisting they are not bound by it.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Guess you cant take it when you wrong.

Show me where under the RLA and NMB where you do whatever you want and ignore arbitration awards under the RLA.

No shill here, just the facts, no need to lash out when you are shown to be wrong.

So, you're saying that you can't negotiate new conditions on your contract each time you go to section 6? That's about the stupidest thing I've ever read here. I guess that's why we have pay rates for DC-3s and duty rigs that include "flying the hump"? No, you're the expert. I'll concede to your experience and knowledge oh great one! Forgive me for doubting your greatness!

And I didn't say they weren't bound by it. I'm saying that there is nothing presently in effect that includes the Nic award, and that any new CBA can be negotiated to minimize or even not include it in any meaningful way. Nowhere did I say that it was not lawful. USAPA has stated that it will attempt to minimize the detrimental effects of the award on the pilot group by negotiating a fair system of seniority. That is something they can absolutely do, according to Bear96 and the USAPA lawyers.

 

[Bear96]

I was replying to oldie, not you, he keeps insisting they are not bound by it.

Oh - sorry.

 

[EastUS]

Guess you cant take it when you wrong.

Show me where under the RLA and NMB where you do whatever you want and ignore arbitration awards under the RLA.

No shill here, just the facts, no need to lash out when you are shown to be wrong.

Time will show what respective parties are wrong. As for lashing out?...zero need for me to do so...plentiful numbers of your own supposed constituents that're so enjoying all the great benefits the IAM affords them have done so far better on other specifically IAM threads..and yet...you waste your time here :blink:

 

[700UW]

its all right.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Enjoy:

This just arrived via U.S. mail from the North Pole, really and no kidding.

“TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE MERGERâ€￾

“Twas the night before merger, and all through the group,
Every pilot was stirring their cold pot of soup.
Golden parachutes hung in proxies with care,
So that Rat Pack would never fade into thin air.

A few seniors nestled all snug in the their beds,
While the words “lucrative contractâ€￾ danced in their heads.
Jr. Captains and certainly every eff-O
Were wondering they were next ones to go.

So no rep could rant or merely recant,
The Fried Rice Committee, (In Georgian Chant):
“The merger! The merger! A contract we must-
For clock is ticking , their raid we must bust.

Most of the ehm-em-cee, like a bug in a rug,
Was in a huge bed with Prater the Slug:
These Bohicans are smart; this won’t be duck soup,
two rubber stamps from now, we must split this group.

Borne out of Herndon, there arose such a clatter,
Some shelved their apathy to see what was the matter.
The rebels’ cries started hushed and lo,
As more joined the chorus, it became a crescendo.

Oust Prater, Oust George, though it wasn’t his fault,
He was just following orders from the National Vault.
On Chug, On scotch, On Eloise or what e’er,
It’s their bill to pay, their terms to bear.

When what to my wondering eyes should appear?
A broken down MEC, MEC my own biggest fear;
When Old Blinkin Bill returns to the trinity,
Bohica’s sis, concessions, is in the vicinity.

When out in the crew room I heard such a clatter,
Distance Learning Be damned, I’ll see what’s the matter.
A jovial gentleman in red holding court,
Spewing advice meant for any and every old sort.

The trick here, he said, is sticking together.
You’ll get what you want—Less sooner, more later.
If you vote with your wallet, instead of your head.
Your partners these years will be better off dead.

The heat of the deal is burning their feet—
On-Time, Quality, PIT: GET IN THE BACK SEAT!
Any day now the soup is bound to get hot,
So be ready to stir with ONE SPOON in this pot.

You learned from the Wolfman about carrots and sticks,
do don’t fall for either and get lost in the mix.
Nocolau’s black heart beats inside every pledge,
So by voting yes, you jump off the edge.

It’s a seniority sale, step right up, just today-
We have some great deals for you to drive away.
Now I’ve said enough, hope my words gave you pause,
Still five more bases before Ms. Claus.

Just one more thing, as I’m sure it’s true.
We’ve had many villains, only the next can be you!
When finished he waved as he moved out of sight,

“Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.â€￾

 

[luvthe9]

"The award will not be implemented by the Company until we have concluded negotiations over the terms of a single labor agreement covering both pilots groups." DOA

 

[EastUS]

Given that U-SAPs isn't bound by the arbitration, why should they be part of a Transition Agreement that they didn't negotiate? And that being the case, the restriction tieing the Nic list to a CBA goes away. Nic gets implemented pronto and the company can sit back and wait to negotiate at a time of their choosing.

Good luck USAPA!

Yep. No doubt....etc. They're so desperately eager to implement Nic, totally infuriate the east to the point of probable operational implosion, and generally kiss up to the western minority that's clearly so very, very important to them.....that they haven't even gone for the Cactus call sign. Yep..makes perfect sense. Pass me some of that old koolaide..it's gotta' be seriously good stuff