Alpa Merger Seniority Integration

[traderjake]

Relitive position is a windfall for the AWA piolts.

All of you 2 year wonders are salivating at the attrition rate at AAA. If there are fences then what is the problem. To me it is a clear case of the AWA pilots wanting it all. See you in court.

I'm a First Officer who can't hold Captain at US. I'm 2000 out of 2700 active pilots. If it goes DOH I would be senior to all but the top 200 Captains at AWA.

That's a windfall.

 

[zflygrl]

Hi zflygrl,

I would not get your pai****s all bunched up over this. What you, your husband, me, AWA pilots, or US Airways pilots thinks should happen will have ZERO bearing on the outcome.

However, how we all treat each other...what we say to each other will have longterm influence on our relationships. EVERYONE deserves respect for what they bring to this airline, to think otherwise is foolish. Where the company goes from here is the most important point, and having a good relationship between all of us is key to how and why we get to where we will get.

I have been through the Piedmont/PSA/USAir/USAir Shuttle mergers and so I do speak from experience. These went date-of hire and then the last slotting. Guess what? There were a whole bunch of people who felt screwed in all cases.

We all have a story, we all have a scenario that works for us...that does not make it fair or right, just your point of view.

Relax, you and all of us are along for the ride

BTW, threating to sue already and you don't if know if your husband will end up being the top A330 International Captain?

Your right of course but it sure did feel good.....as for my knickers in a knotttttt yowwww

 

[N924PS]

I'm a First Officer who can't hold Captain at US. I'm 2000 out of 2700 active pilots. If it goes DOH I would be senior to all but the top 200 Captains at AWA.

That's a windfall.

And your probably one of the 57% percent of the USAirways pilots that voted for LOA 93 too. Grow some cojones will you.

 

[N924PS]

:angry: I'm not a pilot....but I am a pilots wife....I have been apart of this industry for way to many years then I wish to remember. I have to have my say.....now most of you will just brush this post off as..."you don't know what your talking about..." I do.....I have been there...got the TO-shirt blah blah blah.

I find it really incomprehensible that the old us airways pilots...feel they should go to the top of the seniority list. Why do I feel this way? First...if it wasn't for the cash behind the AWA name...and that is why the cash came around......us airways would be history. Lets face it....what did the old us airways have to offer....money...nope.....reputation.....nope.....a record of taking airlines over and hammering the employees of the old airline....YES. And I understand what Wolfe did to you besides turning the UAL paint job upside-down....and if you want to believe what the WSJ and the NYT printed in their papers....this is not a merger it is a take-over......but merger sounds nicer and you get more tax breaks. And as for the verbiage "we had to give a lot up..." well let me tell you this the AWA pilots have been giving a lot up for years. I feel it should be one for one........one, you us airways pilots should be happy AWA wanted to grow....and one other thing....if not for this merger...you would all be out working for the likes of mesa..ryan..omni..etc. I have told my husband if he gets screwed be this merger I shall get all the wives together and sue ALPA for not protecting his seniority or his future....after all isn't that why he pay dues......or is it to help Mr. Worth (less) pay for all those expensive suit's he wear.....how much is he making a year now??? Well there you have it....the Irish came out in me a wee bit.

Now you can go back to your BS...I'm bigger then you...I deserve more then you fantasies. :rant:

Oh please, not more of that "if it wasn't for us" crap. USAirways brings a lot to this merger. Widebodies, Transatlantic, the Carribean, to name just a few.

As one of our more famous USAviation poster likes to say, "Don't let the facts get in your way." AW isn't taking over anything.

Everyone except Pilot Number One is going to feel they were screwed no matter which methodology is used for the integration of the two pilot groups. So be prepared, because one way or another, your husband IS going to be screwed.

 

[Bud8EE]

:angry: I'm not a pilot....but I am a pilots wife....I have been apart of this industry for way to many years then I wish to remember. I have to have my say.....now most of you will just brush this post off as..."you don't know what your talking about..." I do.....I have been there...got the TO-shirt blah blah blah.

I find it really incomprehensible that the old us airways pilots...feel they should go to the top of the seniority list. Why do I feel this way? First...if it wasn't for the cash behind the AWA name...and that is why the cash came around......us airways would be history. Lets face it....what did the old us airways have to offer....money...nope.....reputation.....nope.....a record of taking airlines over and hammering the employees of the old airline....YES. And I understand what Wolfe did to you besides turning the UAL paint job upside-down....and if you want to believe what the WSJ and the NYT printed in their papers....this is not a merger it is a take-over......but merger sounds nicer and you get more tax breaks. And as for the verbiage "we had to give a lot up..." well let me tell you this the AWA pilots have been giving a lot up for years. I feel it should be one for one........one, you us airways pilots should be happy AWA wanted to grow....and one other thing....if not for this merger...you would all be out working for the likes of mesa..ryan..omni..etc. I have told my husband if he gets screwed be this merger I shall get all the wives together and sue ALPA for not protecting his seniority or his future....after all isn't that why he pay dues......or is it to help Mr. Worth (less) pay for all those expensive suit's he wear.....how much is he making a year now??? Well there you have it....the Irish came out in me a wee bit.

Now you can go back to your BS...I'm bigger then you...I deserve more then you fantasies. :rant:

How about DOH with a one way fence, zflygirl? AWA pilots can move east as their DOH holds its and no US pilot can move west? Nothing for either goup changes then. Would that be fair or do you want more than fair?

 

[700UW]

A one way fence is not fair, you are giving the former HP pilots the rights to transer but not US pilots?

How is that fair?

I am not in the pilot group, but I have been through three mergers and Dovetail is the only fair way.

 

[UseYourHead]

Your too funny!

Your right of course but it sure did feel good.....as for my knickers in a knotttttt yowwww

 

[traderjake]

And your probably one of the 57% percent of the USAirways pilots that voted for LOA 93 too. Grow some cojones will you.

You should try growing a brain. Courage and trying to steal another man's job are not the same thing.

The USAir and PSA pilots got away with screwing the Piedmont pilots, now they think they can screw the AWA pilots. Only one problem, ALPA changed the merger policy.

The AWA pilots are not going to agree to DOH and the arbitrator is not going to give it to us. It violates goals 2 thru 5 of the merger policy. You don't care what the merger policy says but the arbitrator will.

Asking for DOH does not strengten our position in arbitration, it only creates animosity.

While you're at it, try growing some ethics and morality.

 

[PA18]

The USAir and PSA pilots got away with screwing the Piedmont pilots, now they think they can screw the AWA pilots. Only one problem, ALPA changed the merger policy.

That was after the Piedmont pilots had screwed the Empire pilots by stapling them to the bottom of their list.

Then, after wanting no part of a DOH integration in the Empire merger, those same Piedmont pilots fought vehemently against DOH in the USAir merger. Having stolen 11 years seniority from the senior Empire pilots, those three-year wonder "boy captains" wanted to leapfrog over USAir pilots with 14 years more seniority.

Isn't that exactly what the former Piedmont pilots are accusing the AWA pilots of trying to do in this merger?

Greed, and the hypocrisy it breeds, are alive and well in the piloting profession.

 

[traderjake]

Explain to me how it was fair to give a Piedmont Captain's job to a First Officer who could not hold Captain at USAir or PSA. Because they worked for stagnant companies?

The Empire Captain went from making about $60K to 90K a year so how did he get screwed? Before the merger his top pay was below the top pay of a Piedmont F/O. Should the 11 year Empire Captain making $60K before the merger been made senior to Piedmont Captains making $120K?

 

[PA18]

Explain to me how it was fair to give a Piedmont Captain's job to a First Officer who could not hold Captain at USAir or PSA. Because they worked for stagnant companies?

I don't recall any Piedmont jobs being "given" to USAir pilots. Yes, as openings occured, USAir pilots who lived in Florida bid into CLT, but they didn't bump anybody out. There had to be a vacancy. Of course, that was deeply resented by the CLT pilots who felt that the Northerners were taking "their" jobs.

It just so happens that the former Piedmont pilots are doing the very same thing today -- bidding into LGA and BOS to hold blocks, while denying pilots who live in those domiciles the opportunity to hold positions and/or blocks.

I also recall that there was a group of Piedmont pilots who were granted lifetime jobs on the 767, as long as they didn't bid off of it.

The Empire Captain went from making about $60K to 90K a year so how did he get screwed? Before the merger his top pay was below the top pay of a Piedmont F/O.

Not quite. Actually, the Empire F-28 pay was higher than the Piedmont B-Scale F-28 pay. As a result, and so as not to endure a pay cut, for a while after the merger the Empire pilots were paid a salary based on their pre-merger average monthly earnings, instead of the lower Piedmont F-28 rates.

Should the 11 year Empire Captain making $60K before the merger be senior to Piedmont Captains making $120K.

Should the 20-year US Airways reserve captain making 107K be senior to the seven-year AWA captain making 130K?

You are making my point for me. When Pilot A screws Pilot B, the former can come up with a million reasons why it's perfectly fair and justified. But when Pilot A then perceives that it's he who is getting screwed, he can come up with two million reasons why it's so grossly unfair.

 

[traderjake]

When the airline began to shrink USAir and PSA F/O's who upgraded to Captain as a result of the merger remained Captains while Piedmont Captains were downgraded to First Officer. So yes, their jobs were taken from them.

That's why DOH is unfair.

The AWA 737 Captain who is a bolckholder should go ahead of the reserve US 737 Captain.

That's why slotted equipment ratio is probably the fairest system.

I may be wrong about the Piedmont F28 Captain pay rate. Was it $65K or $85K?

 

[N924PS]

When the airline began to shrink USAir and PSA F/O's who upgraded to Captain as a result of the merger remained Captains while Piedmont Captains were downgraded to First Officer. So yes, their jobs were taken from them.

That's why DOH is unfair.

The AWA 737 Captain who is a bolckholder should go ahead of the reserve US 737 Captain.

That's why slotted equipment ratio is probably the fairest system.

Hopefully, you are not an ALPA Merger Committee or other representative of USAirways ALPA.

Please explain to me what is immoral or unethical about applying DOH? It has been the standard at every merger from Allegheny-Mohawk-Lake Central-PSA-Piedmont. Glaring exception; The Shuttle pilots were slotted. There weren't that many and most have or will soon be retired, hence the slotting.

 

[john john]

That was after the Piedmont pilots had screwed the Empire pilots by stapling them to the bottom of their list.

Then, after wanting no part of a DOH integration in the Empire merger, those same Piedmont pilots fought vehemently against DOH in the USAir merger. Having stolen 11 years seniority from the senior Empire pilots, those three-year wonder "boy captains" wanted to leapfrog over USAir pilots with 14 years more seniority.

Isn't that exactly what the former Piedmont pilots are accusing the AWA pilots of trying to do in this merger?

Greed, and the hypocrisy it breeds, are alive and well in the piloting profession.

I remember that it is a RED tail can't fly it. BLUE tail its OK we had a lot of XLD flights because of it.

 

[traderjake]

Hopefully, you are not an ALPA Merger Committee or other representative of USAirways ALPA.

Please explain to me what is immoral or unethical about applying DOH? It has been the standard at every merger from Allegheny-Mohawk-Lake Central-PSA-Piedmont. Glaring exception; The Shuttle pilots were slotted. There weren't that many and most have or will soon be retired, hence the slotting.

It's immoral and unethical to put a First Officer who can't hold Captain at USAirways ahead of a AWA Captain. It's a windfall for the USAirways First Officer.

It's immoral and unethical to put 2000 USAirways pilots ahead of all but the first 200 AWA pilots.

It was unfair in the past and it's unfair now.

I hope you're not on the Merger Committee. The first thing out of the arbitrator's mouth would be "Have you bothered to read the merger policy?"