CactusFlyr
Senior
- May 25, 2005
- 260
- 0
The West will be on your certificate later this year, separate operations. Aircraft can then go to either operation.
ALPA EC Decision Expected Today
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
- Status
The West will be on your certificate later this year, separate operations. Aircraft can then go to either operation.
L
luvn737s
Guest
Why not? Wasn't the TA the only thing stopping them? Plus what's to keep Parker from returning east WB's as the leases come up and adding to the west fleet?
Parker knows $$$ loves stability and predictability and building on a group you know is the best way to do that. The attrition only helps him.
ableoneable
Veteran
- May 6, 2007
- 711
- 0
The west already has widebodies on their certificate. When the 747s went away the ability to operate widebodies was not deleted. The relevent sections were removed from the FOM and replaced by "reserved" sections. The authority remains valid.
CactusFlyr
Senior
- May 25, 2005
- 260
- 0
You are right, looks like they just put it off for a while. :huh:
- Banned
- #65
First of all the 747s are long gone, HP could not just add them back as probably hardly anyone trained nor is their a current flight or maintenance program on them.
Second, 747s are not A330s, A340s, 767, 777 nor a 787, so you cant compare apples to oranges.
US operated 767s for years and when they got the A330, a whole new flight and maintenance program had to be set up, proving runs accomplished and evacuations to show they were trained and had the ability to operate the plane. And had to be approved by the FAA to operate the new fleet type.
Just because US had a widebody did not give them the authority to add a new fleet type and just start flying without being approved by the FAA.
How many pilots at HP are trained, qualified and current on a 747 or any other widebody airplane that you dont fly? Same goes for Maintenance and Flight Attendants.
Your FSDO would have something differant to say than your incorrect information.
Like I say, Don't let the facts get in your way.
Second, 747s are not A330s, A340s, 767, 777 nor a 787, so you cant compare apples to oranges.
US operated 767s for years and when they got the A330, a whole new flight and maintenance program had to be set up, proving runs accomplished and evacuations to show they were trained and had the ability to operate the plane. And had to be approved by the FAA to operate the new fleet type.
Just because US had a widebody did not give them the authority to add a new fleet type and just start flying without being approved by the FAA.
How many pilots at HP are trained, qualified and current on a 747 or any other widebody airplane that you dont fly? Same goes for Maintenance and Flight Attendants.
Your FSDO would have something differant to say than your incorrect information.
Like I say, Don't let the facts get in your way.
FrugalFlyerv2.0
Veteran
- Oct 29, 2003
- 2,931
- 3,341
To me it looks like that it is exactly what you're saying ... see below:
Are you saying that the reason why the US-east and US-west pilots agreed to bring in an arbitrator/agree to binding arbitration was just a part of the negotiations? What's the next step? Bring in another arbitrator? Best 2 out of 3? Best of 7?
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #67
MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE
May 25, 2007
This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Chairman’s message to the pilots for Friday, May 25, 2007.
On behalf of the entire US Airways MEC I want to update you on recent action by ALPA’s Executive Council.
Late last night ALPA's Executive Council took action concerning the Nicolau arbitration award. Shortly, we will post on our website the resolution passed by the Executive Council and the letter Captain Prater sent to me and AWA MEC Chairman John McIlvenna.
These documents lay the foundation for seeking to right the injustices of this egregious award. The resolution states that the Executive Council is acutely aware of the negative consequences that may result if the MECs fail to come together to explore consensual approaches that promote career protection and mutual success…..
Additionally it goes on to direct ALPA President, Captain John Prater to continue to employ all of the resources of the Association to assist the MECs in achieving these goals.
Make no mistake; although many people worked tirelessly for this outcome, it would not have occurred absent the show of resolve demonstrated by the over 400 US Airways pilots who made the effort to go to ALPA headquarters in Herndon on May 21. Your participation, whether in person at Herndon last Monday or taking the time to express your concerns to your union leadership, clearly provided a poignant reminder that the pilots of US Airways cannot be left behind in ALPA’s efforts to take this union back.
While our request to have the award voided was not directly addressed at this time, we are nonetheless encouraged that the Executive Council has taken ownership of the issue as we advocated in our presentation as well as the direction that they have laid out for us. We will be providing you more information on the process before us after I have spoken with Captain Prater regarding his specific request for information and/or action.
Your solidarity in letting your views be known provided the wherewithal to convince the Executive Council that they could not remain silent on the issue before us. Your continued solidarity in that manner will be instrumental as we move forward as a union to effectively address the ramifications of the Nicolau award. Rest assured that your MEC continues to remain solely focused on exhausting every means available to represent the US Airways pilots.
Thank you for your support during this difficult time. And as always, fly safe and thanks for listening.
-----
Jim comments: Looks like the award stands. As before the EC meeting, the two MEC's can negotiate alterations if both choose to do so.
May 25, 2007
This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Chairman’s message to the pilots for Friday, May 25, 2007.
On behalf of the entire US Airways MEC I want to update you on recent action by ALPA’s Executive Council.
Late last night ALPA's Executive Council took action concerning the Nicolau arbitration award. Shortly, we will post on our website the resolution passed by the Executive Council and the letter Captain Prater sent to me and AWA MEC Chairman John McIlvenna.
These documents lay the foundation for seeking to right the injustices of this egregious award. The resolution states that the Executive Council is acutely aware of the negative consequences that may result if the MECs fail to come together to explore consensual approaches that promote career protection and mutual success…..
Additionally it goes on to direct ALPA President, Captain John Prater to continue to employ all of the resources of the Association to assist the MECs in achieving these goals.
Make no mistake; although many people worked tirelessly for this outcome, it would not have occurred absent the show of resolve demonstrated by the over 400 US Airways pilots who made the effort to go to ALPA headquarters in Herndon on May 21. Your participation, whether in person at Herndon last Monday or taking the time to express your concerns to your union leadership, clearly provided a poignant reminder that the pilots of US Airways cannot be left behind in ALPA’s efforts to take this union back.
While our request to have the award voided was not directly addressed at this time, we are nonetheless encouraged that the Executive Council has taken ownership of the issue as we advocated in our presentation as well as the direction that they have laid out for us. We will be providing you more information on the process before us after I have spoken with Captain Prater regarding his specific request for information and/or action.
Your solidarity in letting your views be known provided the wherewithal to convince the Executive Council that they could not remain silent on the issue before us. Your continued solidarity in that manner will be instrumental as we move forward as a union to effectively address the ramifications of the Nicolau award. Rest assured that your MEC continues to remain solely focused on exhausting every means available to represent the US Airways pilots.
Thank you for your support during this difficult time. And as always, fly safe and thanks for listening.
-----
Jim comments: Looks like the award stands. As before the EC meeting, the two MEC's can negotiate alterations if both choose to do so.
This was just forwarded to me:
SOURCE
President John Prater
BACKGROUND INFORMATION
An ALPA Arbitration Board under Part I, Section H. of ALPA Merger
and Fragmentation Policy has rendered an Opinion and Award in the
Matter of the Seniority Integration of the Pilots of US Airways, Inc. and
the Pilots of America West Airlines, Inc. (the “Awardâ€). The
Arbitration Board was chaired by a neutral selected by the Merger
Representatives of the two MECs and having considerable experience
as a labor arbitrator and as a neutral chair in seniority integration
procedures. The Award has nonetheless generated considerable
negative reaction among many US Airways pilots. The AAA MEC, on
behalf of the AAA pilots, has requested that the Executive Council
review and set aside the Award on the ground that the Award is not
fair and equitable and therefore fails to satisfy ALPA Merger and
Fragmentation Policy. The AWA MEC, on behalf of the AWA pilots,
opposes that request on the grounds that the Executive Council lacks
jurisdiction to set aside an arbitration award rendered under ALPA
Merger and Fragmentation Policy and that, if the Council possessed
such jurisdiction, no sufficient ground for exercising it has been offered.
PROPOSED RESOLUTION
1 WHEREAS the AAA MEC, on behalf of the AAA pilots, has requested
2 that the Executive Council set aside the Opinion and Award in the
3 Matter of the Seniority Integration of the Pilots of US Airways, Inc. and
4 the Pilots of America West Airlines, Inc. (the “Awardâ€) and resubmit
5 the matter to a new Arbitration Board sitting with a different
6 arbitrator, and
7
8 WHEREAS the AWA MEC, on behalf of the AWA pilots, has argued
9 that the Executive Council lacks jurisdiction to review or set aside the
10 Award and that, in any event, there is no basis for doing so, and
11
12 WHEREAS the Executive Council, acutely aware of the importance of
13 these issues to the pilots of both airlines as well as to the entire
14 Association, desires to fully consider the views of each group and fully
15 deliberate all issues raised in order to effectively discharge its
16 responsibilities, and
17
18 WHEREAS the Executive Council is also acutely aware of the negative
19 consequences that may result if the MECs fail to come together to
20 explore consensual approaches that promote career protection and
21 mutual success, and achieve an acceptable single collective bargaining
22 agreement that improves pay, benefits, work rules and job security for
23 both pilot groups,
24
25 THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the President continue to
26 employ all the resources of the Association to assist the MECs in
27 achieving these goals, and
28
29 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that further consideration of this
30 agenda item is deferred to a special meeting of the Executive Council to
31 be called by the President to be held in June 2007.
32
SOURCE
President John Prater
BACKGROUND INFORMATION
An ALPA Arbitration Board under Part I, Section H. of ALPA Merger
and Fragmentation Policy has rendered an Opinion and Award in the
Matter of the Seniority Integration of the Pilots of US Airways, Inc. and
the Pilots of America West Airlines, Inc. (the “Awardâ€). The
Arbitration Board was chaired by a neutral selected by the Merger
Representatives of the two MECs and having considerable experience
as a labor arbitrator and as a neutral chair in seniority integration
procedures. The Award has nonetheless generated considerable
negative reaction among many US Airways pilots. The AAA MEC, on
behalf of the AAA pilots, has requested that the Executive Council
review and set aside the Award on the ground that the Award is not
fair and equitable and therefore fails to satisfy ALPA Merger and
Fragmentation Policy. The AWA MEC, on behalf of the AWA pilots,
opposes that request on the grounds that the Executive Council lacks
jurisdiction to set aside an arbitration award rendered under ALPA
Merger and Fragmentation Policy and that, if the Council possessed
such jurisdiction, no sufficient ground for exercising it has been offered.
PROPOSED RESOLUTION
1 WHEREAS the AAA MEC, on behalf of the AAA pilots, has requested
2 that the Executive Council set aside the Opinion and Award in the
3 Matter of the Seniority Integration of the Pilots of US Airways, Inc. and
4 the Pilots of America West Airlines, Inc. (the “Awardâ€) and resubmit
5 the matter to a new Arbitration Board sitting with a different
6 arbitrator, and
7
8 WHEREAS the AWA MEC, on behalf of the AWA pilots, has argued
9 that the Executive Council lacks jurisdiction to review or set aside the
10 Award and that, in any event, there is no basis for doing so, and
11
12 WHEREAS the Executive Council, acutely aware of the importance of
13 these issues to the pilots of both airlines as well as to the entire
14 Association, desires to fully consider the views of each group and fully
15 deliberate all issues raised in order to effectively discharge its
16 responsibilities, and
17
18 WHEREAS the Executive Council is also acutely aware of the negative
19 consequences that may result if the MECs fail to come together to
20 explore consensual approaches that promote career protection and
21 mutual success, and achieve an acceptable single collective bargaining
22 agreement that improves pay, benefits, work rules and job security for
23 both pilot groups,
24
25 THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the President continue to
26 employ all the resources of the Association to assist the MECs in
27 achieving these goals, and
28
29 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that further consideration of this
30 agenda item is deferred to a special meeting of the Executive Council to
31 be called by the President to be held in June 2007.
32
exB717Flyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,106
- 599
MEC Chairman's Update
May 25, 2007
Fellow AWA Pilots:
Last night, the AWA MEC received the decision from ALPA Executive Council regarding the AAA MEC’s presentation on May 21, 2007 to set aside the Nicolau Award. The decision of ALPA Executive Council was to simply delay deliberation until a special EC meeting scheduled for late June 2007. The cover letter from ALPA President Captain John Prater and the EC resolution are attached for your review. Additionally, I have sent Captain Prater a response and that letter is also attached.
I would ask that you please not read anything into this decision. We expect that the east will put out communications that will likely distort the true meaning of this resolution. After a lengthy conference call with our merger committee, and our merger counsel Jeff Freund, and EVP Russ Webber, all of your elected representatives and MEC officers have every confidence that ALPA Executive Council will follow ALPA Merger Policy and they will NOT overturn the Nicolau Award.
Unfortunately, the east JNC members informed us this morning that they will not be able to join us in negotiations next week. The AWA MEC, in consultation with the AWA MEC Negotiating Committee, is reviewing all of our strategic options to move ahead with both negotiations and implementation of this award.
I will have a more lengthy Chairman’s letter coming to you later this weekend detailing many of the issues that are rapidly changing, including what happened at the Executive Board with regards to the change in ALPA’s age 60 policy. In the meantime, please have a safe and secure Memorial Day weekend, and please follow the ALPA Code of Ethics when dealing with your fellow ALPA brothers and sisters.
I hope to see you on the picket line in LAS tomorrow as we continue our fight for a fair contract.
Fraternally,
Captain John McIlvenna
Chairman, AWA Master Executive Council
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cover Letter from Captain Prater
(Letter will be sent on official ALPA letterhead with signature via email and US Mail on Friday, May 25, 2007)
May 24, 2007
F/O Jack Stephan
Captain John McIlvenna
Gentlemen:
Thank you for meeting with the ALPA Executive Council on Monday, May 21, and for the very professional and informative presentation in response to the Arbitration Award. Both presentations raised serious questions, concerns, and difficult issues. While both MECs, Merger Committees, and merger counsel have been intimately involved with each and every detail of the proceeding, the Executive Council had much to learn and consider.
After both presentations and Q & A periods were concluded, and during the next several days, the Executive Council deliberated over the very difficult issues. It became clear to all Executive Council members that the issues raised from both MECs are of critical importance to the AWA and AAA pilots, as well as all ALPA pilots and the piloting profession. Therefore, as stated in the attached resolution, the Executive Council will require additional time and information to complete their deliberations.
The Executive Council requests that you advise your respective memberships of the Executive Council actions. I will be contacting each of you to discuss follow-up requests for information and/or actions.
Fraternally,
John H. Prater
President
Cc: ALPA Executive Council
ALPA Executive Board
May 25, 2007
Fellow AWA Pilots:
Last night, the AWA MEC received the decision from ALPA Executive Council regarding the AAA MEC’s presentation on May 21, 2007 to set aside the Nicolau Award. The decision of ALPA Executive Council was to simply delay deliberation until a special EC meeting scheduled for late June 2007. The cover letter from ALPA President Captain John Prater and the EC resolution are attached for your review. Additionally, I have sent Captain Prater a response and that letter is also attached.
I would ask that you please not read anything into this decision. We expect that the east will put out communications that will likely distort the true meaning of this resolution. After a lengthy conference call with our merger committee, and our merger counsel Jeff Freund, and EVP Russ Webber, all of your elected representatives and MEC officers have every confidence that ALPA Executive Council will follow ALPA Merger Policy and they will NOT overturn the Nicolau Award.
Unfortunately, the east JNC members informed us this morning that they will not be able to join us in negotiations next week. The AWA MEC, in consultation with the AWA MEC Negotiating Committee, is reviewing all of our strategic options to move ahead with both negotiations and implementation of this award.
I will have a more lengthy Chairman’s letter coming to you later this weekend detailing many of the issues that are rapidly changing, including what happened at the Executive Board with regards to the change in ALPA’s age 60 policy. In the meantime, please have a safe and secure Memorial Day weekend, and please follow the ALPA Code of Ethics when dealing with your fellow ALPA brothers and sisters.
I hope to see you on the picket line in LAS tomorrow as we continue our fight for a fair contract.
Fraternally,
Captain John McIlvenna
Chairman, AWA Master Executive Council
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cover Letter from Captain Prater
(Letter will be sent on official ALPA letterhead with signature via email and US Mail on Friday, May 25, 2007)
May 24, 2007
F/O Jack Stephan
Captain John McIlvenna
Gentlemen:
Thank you for meeting with the ALPA Executive Council on Monday, May 21, and for the very professional and informative presentation in response to the Arbitration Award. Both presentations raised serious questions, concerns, and difficult issues. While both MECs, Merger Committees, and merger counsel have been intimately involved with each and every detail of the proceeding, the Executive Council had much to learn and consider.
After both presentations and Q & A periods were concluded, and during the next several days, the Executive Council deliberated over the very difficult issues. It became clear to all Executive Council members that the issues raised from both MECs are of critical importance to the AWA and AAA pilots, as well as all ALPA pilots and the piloting profession. Therefore, as stated in the attached resolution, the Executive Council will require additional time and information to complete their deliberations.
The Executive Council requests that you advise your respective memberships of the Executive Council actions. I will be contacting each of you to discuss follow-up requests for information and/or actions.
Fraternally,
John H. Prater
President
Cc: ALPA Executive Council
ALPA Executive Board
ableoneable
Veteran
- May 6, 2007
- 711
- 0
HP has a whole slew of pilots current and qualified on the etops 757 which also qualfies them for the 767. A home studies differences course would be able to accomplish all the training required to operate 76s tomorrow.
[/quote]
Your FSDO would have something differant to say than your incorrect information.
Like I say, Don't let the facts get in your way.
[/quote]
Proving runs are not required to add a new fleet type. Cross training of flight attendants on the wide bodies is already under way. The FAA does not "approve" or "disapprove" the addition of fleet types only the validity of the training, maintenance and checking programs.
Simply put, adding another aircraft type to the west certificate is not a big deal. It can be done quickly and easily
lynyrdskynyrd
Veteran
- Apr 22, 2005
- 1,182
- 558
Simply put, adding another aircraft type to the west certificate is not a big deal. It can be done quickly and easily.
[/quote]
No big deal? Quickly? Easily?
Thats a good one. We can't even do the simplest of things quickly and easily.
[/quote]
No big deal? Quickly? Easily?
Thats a good one. We can't even do the simplest of things quickly and easily."The alternative is labor unrest and another bankruptcy which might prove final closure of your company."
Take the weekend off boys. ITS a HOLIDAY. Drink some beer and BBQ. Both sides must now work to a mutually agreeable
decision, get a great JNC contract and kick some industry a--. no chest pounding, " I told ya so's, gloating etc. "
Here's to current and past veterans of our country.
Take the weekend off boys. ITS a HOLIDAY. Drink some beer and BBQ. Both sides must now work to a mutually agreeable
decision, get a great JNC contract and kick some industry a--. no chest pounding, " I told ya so's, gloating etc. "
Here's to current and past veterans of our country.
Freighterguynow
Veteran
- Jan 5, 2004
- 1,276
- 1,207
- Banned
- #75
Funny then go ask the US Pilots, FAs and Maintenance that were in MIA when the Emergency Evac test occured with the FAA there.
Go ask the FAA who flew on the proving runs.
Go ask the FAA who had to approve all flight and maintenance programs.
And yes proving runs are required. Even when US got the A320 family a/c proving runs were made, same occured when US added the 757s to the fleet.
And don't forget HP had to get FAA Permission to add planes to their fleet at one point in time.
Once again, don't let the facts get in your way.
Go ask the FAA who flew on the proving runs.
Go ask the FAA who had to approve all flight and maintenance programs.
And yes proving runs are required. Even when US got the A320 family a/c proving runs were made, same occured when US added the 757s to the fleet.
And don't forget HP had to get FAA Permission to add planes to their fleet at one point in time.
Once again, don't let the facts get in your way.
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