Alpa Merger Policy -- A Reminder
- Thread starter Furloughedagain
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USA320Pilot
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AAviator:
There is no flip-flop here, it's the information that was briefed to the MEC. With all due repsct, if you would attend a MEC meeting you would know this, but you're to uninformed to know what happened.
The company put those items in their September 10 proposal and the 150 fleet count was briefed by the company to ALPA. GECAS discussed reducing their US Airways risk all the way back to the LOA 91 discussions and GE continues to exert its muscle with fleet reductions and brokering the MDA sale because the RC4 gave US Airways' largest creditor the opportunity to do so.
If the RC4 had let the pilot group vote on the September 6 proposal, the 279 minimum fleet count would have still been in the ALPA contract. If you're upset with that, as well as you now could lose your MDA job, talk to the RC4 minus 1 and voice your complaint. They were in charge...
Separately, I find it interesting that you want to remain in my private email distribution list, but yet you post B.S on this forum. Some what hypocritical...
By the way, I thought this thread was about ALPA Merger Policy...
Regards,
USA320Pilot
There is no flip-flop here, it's the information that was briefed to the MEC. With all due repsct, if you would attend a MEC meeting you would know this, but you're to uninformed to know what happened.
The company put those items in their September 10 proposal and the 150 fleet count was briefed by the company to ALPA. GECAS discussed reducing their US Airways risk all the way back to the LOA 91 discussions and GE continues to exert its muscle with fleet reductions and brokering the MDA sale because the RC4 gave US Airways' largest creditor the opportunity to do so.
If the RC4 had let the pilot group vote on the September 6 proposal, the 279 minimum fleet count would have still been in the ALPA contract. If you're upset with that, as well as you now could lose your MDA job, talk to the RC4 minus 1 and voice your complaint. They were in charge...
Separately, I find it interesting that you want to remain in my private email distribution list, but yet you post B.S on this forum. Some what hypocritical...
By the way, I thought this thread was about ALPA Merger Policy...
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Ummm, cuz you're still here?USA320Pilot said:
(Maybe it's not quite accurate to say you have NO other choices. But it would be accurate to say of your (apparently pathetic) choices, this is the best option available to you.)
What in Gods name are you talking about? I don't have an MDA job. I don't work for Usairways. Where do you come up with: I want to remain on your private e-mail distribution list? The last thing I would want from you is a spun press release that suggest Usairways is going to end up with United assets. I think you're a very desperate person. You're the one PM'ing the Shiit out of me demanding to know my identity.USA320Pilot said:
Facts please.... I still have no less than 10 PM's from you in my "in" box demanding my identity.
Here's the flip flop. In this thread you state: Ths issue here is simple: the RC4 is the first MEC leadership in the hisotry of ALPA to negotiate a contract with a "give" greater than the company's "ask". If you ask me, you are your leaders are incompetent. A union's responsibility is to get the best deal possible for the membership -- guess what, your team failed. The RC4 had the power and control of the MEC. If you're upset, be upset with those who negotiated the contract and the people in charge.
In the other thread you state: USA320Pilot: The RC4 have been neutered and are in trouble. They will not block a deal and there has been a significant change of events. Furthermore, Senator's Rick Santorum and Arlen Specter will meet today with the RC4 today.
Then go on to state: Fred Freshwater and the other member's of the RC4 will continue to pound their chest both in private and public communications to try and save face. I guarantee you these men are in trouble and are simply now trying to stay alive.
And further: In regard to out of seniority furloughs, it's in the company's September 20 proposal due to the failure of the RC4 and their supporters like Mwereplanes. If airplanes are parked the company cannot afford to re-train the pilot force. Why is Mwereplanes so upset? Because he is a B767 Captain with no other options who could be furloughed without severance pay.
And: By the way, now the RC4 are running scared for a very good reason it's interesting to see the tune of certain posters change.
And: It's too bad that both Mwereplanes and WalmartGreeter could be furloughed before me, with one senior to me and one junior to me, which could have been avoided if the RC4 had listened to the ALPA president, both ALPA professional negotiators, ALPA's lead economic analyst, ALPA's outside counsel, ALPA's legal contract administer, ALPA's financial analyst, the NC's CPA/fraud examineer, all 3 MEC officers, 8 MEC members, and at Tuesday's MEC meeting where 118 out of about 120 pilots in attendance were against the RC4. BTW, where was this meeting? bet it wasn't philly or PIT.
You are truly pathetic. We're not laughing with you. We're laughing at you...
That other thread still reeks of your urine from you urinating all over yourself fearing the T/A could be killed by a roll call vote.
Oh, yea, what kind of fragmentation language do you have while in BK?
TheLarkAscending
Veteran
AAviator said:
In this day and age with identity theft running rampant, I would be highly suspect of anyone PM'ing anyone else demanding personal information. What would one do with personal information and why would anyone outside of an official moderator need to know? I would certainly be questioning the root and purpose of that sort of demand.
If I were the party demanding that information, I would back away from that posture, going forward, due to the potential liability issues. Should anyone that succumbed to the demand suffer from identity theft, even through innocent cooincidence, there could be unwelcomed and costly consequences.
Especially since there is now documented public confirmation of those demands, as well as those within that person's personal message system.
I apologize for straying off topic.
Lark
mwereplanes
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USA320Pilot said:
Allow me to answer,
If you had other choices you would not be leaving your family to commute to a pathetic "job" hoping things get better and U survives. Of course, that's your choice.
I've already made my money. I don't work. My income is passive. My participation here is on certain threads, like this one, to comment on items to give my opinions why this airline and your "job" has degraded into what it has become. Hoping against hope people like you will finally get it. That you and your group someday understand what being an airline pilot is truly worth.
I fully agree my team failed. It failed because guys like you would not step up and stand tall. You threatened lawsuits and physical harm and your minions literally screamed at the top of their lungs to stop the 4 brave men or else the company would shut down. Save the job at any cost. Maybe a company that reneged on its promises to retirees doesn't deserve to be in business. We failed and your group won. And you continue to win as you are forced to accept what we attempted to stop. And apparently your pal Jerry Glass got a promotion after you allowed him to ream the pay and working conditions.
This thread has a comment about the merger policy that petained to solidarity a national seniority list and pilot will. That is when I chose to step in and explain that won't happen as long as guys like you are around. My comments on this thread are entirely appropriate because of that. You will soon be asked for more concessions to allow that merger policy to go forward if the America West deal goes through. And of course, you will relent to save your job.
Of course you would think my posts are tiresome. You disagree with them. But they are true. Pilots are paid what they are willing to accept. Ornstein knows that. So does Glass and Lakefield. The downward trend won't stop until you and your minions stop it. We tried and your group screamed until we stopped. Yep, you won. Keep that in mind as you commute and leave your family once again this week to fly a trip that is not utilizing the crew to its fullest extent as you go through our gem of a hub and watch the expertise of Al Crellin.
And as for being upset, yes I am upset. Because I enjoyed the career. But mostly because guys like you are allowing the profession to become just another job. That's truly a shame. But I'm gone and you moved up a number. And, bottom line, it's all about you and keeping your job. Always was. I know lots of guys like you. But you personify them perfectly. Good luck with the airline. Let me know if you ever figure out what your bottom line is.
mr
jimntx
Veteran
foreright said:
Yeah, that's the ticket. A fence to protect people near retirement who will be gone in a few years anyway. Just like the fence around STL protecting the former TW flight attendants. It was not supposed to come down until April, 2006. Worked beautifully, didn't it! Well, that is until the company and APFA decided to take it down.
In a merger, if you don't get seniority protection up front, you are going to get screwed at some point.
Yes, that's right. I'm an AA flight attendant who is working because the former TW flight attendants were furloughed. What's your point?
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
mwereplanes, I am simpatico with your post. For me, the choice to stay at US Airways was easy: Stay with a weak pilot group or start somewhere else at a more stable company. Every airline has their "issues." What bothers me most is seeing other airline employees on here ranting about why US Airways hasn't gone out of business. These are selfish people; but that's what our industry has turned into in recent years: fear and loathing at others expense. America West merger or not; it ain't gonna affect my choice to leave at the end of the year. I am fairly young, my family is young, and I'll be damned if I am going to work 20+ days a month in the continual tanking of the U.S. airline industry. Look overseas they "get" that flying an aircraft, working on an aircraft, and serving on an aircraft is still a noble profession. Zà i jià n, y'all!
traderjake
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mwereplanes
I know I can make more money outside of the "job". I won't accept less than what the skill, training, checkrides, physicals, responsibilities, travel, etc.... is worth. You obviously will. Along with your freinds on the street. Just to make sure you understand: This profession is worth substantially more than what U is paying. Substantially more.
______________________________________________________________________
Our labor is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it, not what we think it's worth. We can choose to withhold our labor but as long the the guy on the street is capable and willing to do the job for a price that we are not, withholding our labor does not raise the price. It just makes us unemployed.
The guy on the street is not going to stay home and make nothing so that you can make what you think you're worth.
The only reason we made what we did in the past is because regulation gave the airlines a government sanctioned cartel that protected us from competition. Those days are gone forever.
P.S. - I asked around, nobody here noticed that you were gone.
I know I can make more money outside of the "job". I won't accept less than what the skill, training, checkrides, physicals, responsibilities, travel, etc.... is worth. You obviously will. Along with your freinds on the street. Just to make sure you understand: This profession is worth substantially more than what U is paying. Substantially more.
______________________________________________________________________
Our labor is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it, not what we think it's worth. We can choose to withhold our labor but as long the the guy on the street is capable and willing to do the job for a price that we are not, withholding our labor does not raise the price. It just makes us unemployed.
The guy on the street is not going to stay home and make nothing so that you can make what you think you're worth.
The only reason we made what we did in the past is because regulation gave the airlines a government sanctioned cartel that protected us from competition. Those days are gone forever.
P.S. - I asked around, nobody here noticed that you were gone.
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
Yes, I know all about the pprune board. Believe me, where I am going is 'greener' than here. There are a half-dozen US guys going and none of us were furloughed. We're leaving on our own terms.
mwereplanes
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traderjake said:
You don't get it either trader. Your first sentence is in error. I know what the job is worth and that is why I am gone. You think it is worth what they are paying so you are still here. Certainly your privilege. But where is the bottom? Is your guy on the street argument going to hold regardless of what they are willing to pay? What is YOUR bottom line. You and guys like you never answer that question do you? Is it the same as the "guy on the street"? Do you think the majority of "guys on the street" have the expertise or experience you do? Have you seen the "guys on the street" sitting in the copilot side of Ornstien's jets? Some can barely speak English. How long do you think they would last in the left seat of a 330 before a incident, violation or accident? How long would it take this industry to fully staff the pilot seats if all of ALPA and APA decided to stop flying? Let me answer that for you. IT COULDN"T BE DONE. That's my point Sparky. But with guys like you that is certainly not going to happen. You don't even think it could happen. Thats the problem.
Deregulation hasn't degraded the wages. Pilots accepting what management has offered has. That started with pilots of People Express. But I doubt you were around back then. That is when ALPA needed to step up. Of course, they did not. Back to your first sentence. Willing to pay is coupled with willing to accept not "what we think its worth". I don't accept it. You do. So the downward spiral will continue as you use the excuse of the "guy on the street". It's convenient but its a cop out. The union could set a minimum hourly rate for the A320 if it thought guys like you would have the balls to stop flying if the company didn't pay it. But you don't. Because you are afraid of the guys on the street.
As far as noticing I was gone: You obviously don't know anything about me or my career. I can assure you that you have no idea what you're talking about. Of course, the people who were my colleague's didn't hang out in dark corners and back rooms and worry about "guys on the street". They were and are concerned with the profession. Attempting to keep it a profession and not a bus driver job.
But I know for sure 320 noticed. He gained a number and has one less pilot with a backbone to worry about. I imagine the same thing can be said for you. Good luck.
mr
