Airline, Attendants Ready For Concession Talks

[ojxux]

Anybody who would accept more concessions at this point is a damn fool. The first few rounds have done absolutely nothing to make the airline profitable, and there is no reason to think another round will either. There is way too much seniority in the system now and more furloughs etc. will only exascerbate this problem. The only concession anyone should consider is buyout packages to reduce seniority in the ranks so not everyone is topped out.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

To everyone that keeps telling the unhappy employees to vote yes and save the jobs for the people that are willing to take these drastic pay and benefit cuts, and then quit....

There is also another point of view...a lot of employees here put up with much crap from passengers and management but are willing to deal with the crap at current wages and benefits. Some that are unhappy do want to stay but feel it is not just, to expect the same level of service for anything less. Whose to say that another round of concessions will breath eternal life into this airline and save us all. What if this is another repeat of the last two rounds and we do die a slower death and suffer with lower wages in the mean time and less UE benefits in the end. As many keep preaching...no airline has been saved by employee concessions.

Most of the employees need their current paycheck just to survive day to day, not to buy high end cars, boats, summer homes etc. If this management team is being truthful and really want this airline to survive, whose to say that if the majority votes "no" for concessions that they might finally get their golden butts into high gear and be forced to implement all of the cost saving ideas that each work group has suggested and put some of their ideas into high gear. That could be a plan! No one knows for sure that concessions will do the trick so, no one can say that any other cost saving plan wouldn't do the trick. Again, who knows.

My point is...the other side could say...vote "no" to save pay and benefits that are desperately needed by most. Don't take hard earned money and benefits away and force them to work for substantially less. You say that it's not right to take jobs away by voting "no" so, what makes it right to take someone elses pay and benefits away by voting "yes" and it could be all in vain.

If the groups give in to concessions and ultimately we don't make it, there will be a lot of angry bitter people regretting their decision. I've heard from many US employees that they will tell no one if they vote "yes" because they are afraid of the flack from other employees if we do cease operations or when inadequate paychecks arrive every other week.

Either way it is a crap shoot. The decision to vote yes or no is up to each individual for what ever reason. A "no" vote may not save the company and a "yes" vote may not save the company. So, don't tell people what is right or wrong. Taking jobs away from someone is no more wrong than taking away needed money from paychecks and benefits from employees that do want to stay.
There may alternatives.

Bobcat you are a wildcat

most excellent post

Thank you

 

[crazyincanton]

So a judge rules on the unions behalf and then what? U is out of business. Explain that to the children of the now unemployed airline workers who won't be able to go to dance class, soccer touraments, or the college they had hoped for. I'm sure the children will understand your point of winning at all cost. I live around a lot of U employees and I believe when push comes to shove, all this grand standing will deminish. Even with a paycut, they know damn well, they are still much better off with the paycut. Cost of Blue Cross and Blue Shield per month for a family of 4 - $2,400. That's your 80/20 plan. No dental, no frills. Didn't Continental go twice into BK? Their employees stock zeroed - twice! And aren't they being asked to give again? So Seigel screwed up on the first paycuts and BK - so shut the company down? That's logical.

My children can barely do that stuff now. Another pay cut and they won't. What's the difference?

 

[cavalier]

PJ wrote:

"So a judge rules on the unions behalf and then what? U is out of business. Explain that to the children of the now unemployed airline workers who won't be able to go to dance class, soccer touraments, or the college they had hoped for. I'm sure the children will understand your point of winning at all cost. I live around a lot of U employees and I believe when push comes to shove, all this grand standing will deminish. Even with a paycut, they know damn well, they are still much better off with the paycut. Cost of Blue Cross and Blue Shield per month for a family of 4 - $2,400. That's your 80/20 plan. No dental, no frills. Didn't Continental go twice into BK? Their employees stock zeroed - twice! And aren't they being asked to give again? So Seigel screwed up on the first paycuts and BK - so shut the company down? That's logical."




So logical to you is go on with the mental anguish the U employees live with every working day of their life wondering when the hammer will fall so they can delude their children into thinking and believing everything is ok with mommy and daddy, life is grand as you take them to dance classs. This is twisted logic. What people NOT working for U fail to understand is, that living with constant uncertainly coupled with threats, punitive policies, the forever black cloud hanging over them messes with ones Psyche whether they realizes it or not, it does. People want it to end and pointing guns at our heads given what we have been through and are going through is the worst possible move because employees will simply say, pull the trigger. It’s human nature and logic doesn’t come into play here.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Crazyincanton:

If you cannot make it on what you earn now than why don't you go do something else to improve your position? That's the least you can do to help your family.

Why not get a start now since the company will fail without employee participation in the "Transformation Plan"?

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

Cav:

Cav said: “So logical to you is go on with the mental anguish the U employees live with every working day of their life wondering when the hammer will fall so they can delude their children into thinking and believing everything is ok with mommy and daddy, life is grand as you take them to dance classs. This is twisted logic. What people NOT working for U fail to understand is, that living with constant uncertainly coupled with threats, punitive policies, the forever black cloud hanging over them messes with ones Psyche whether they realizes it or not, it does. People want it to end and pointing guns at our heads given what we have been through and are going through is the worst possible move because employees will simply say, pull the trigger. It’s human nature and logic doesn’t come into play here. “

USA320Pilot comments: Cav, I disagree. If the “constant uncertainly coupled with threatsâ€￾ makes you want to commit suicide you have bigger problems than this company. Get some help -- I mean it. There is nothing, nothing worth committing suicide over and if this place bothers you so much than do yourself a favor and quit, get a new job, and find SOME help.

IT IS NOT HUMAN NATURE TO HURT YOURSELF OR OTHER PEOPLE -- PERIOD. YES, I AM SHOUTING.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Friends don't let friends work for US Airways. The place is a vast wasteland of inhumane management. Someday a book will be written about all this. I am guessing the title might be: "The Five Airline Managers You'll Meet In Hell." (Wolf, Gangwal, Siegel, Lakefield, Bronner)

 

[cavalier]

Cav:

Cav said: “So logical to you is go on with the mental anguish the U employees live with every working day of their life wondering when the hammer will fall so they can delude their children into thinking and believing everything is ok with mommy and daddy, life is grand as you take them to dance classs. This is twisted logic. What people NOT working for U fail to understand is, that living with constant uncertainly coupled with threats, punitive policies, the forever black cloud hanging over them messes with ones Psyche whether they realizes it or not, it does. People want it to end and pointing guns at our heads given what we have been through and are going through is the worst possible move because employees will simply say, pull the trigger. It’s human nature and logic doesn’t come into play here. “

USA320Pilot comments: Cav, I disagree. If the “constant uncertainly coupled with threatsâ€￾ makes you want to commit suicide you have bigger problems than this company. Get some help -- I mean it. There is nothing, nothing worth committing suicide over and if this place bothers you so much than do yourself a favor and quit, get a new job, and find SOME help.

IT IS NOT HUMAN NATURE TO HURT YOURSELF OR OTHER PEOPLE -- PERIOD. YES, I AM SHOUTING.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

Captain since you brought it to this level...

YES, I THINK YOU SHOULD SEEK COUNCILING. And that sir was NOT my observation but a guy who is involved in the EAP program who reads your posts.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Cav:

Cav said: “So logical to you is go on with the mental anguish the U employees live with every working day of their life wondering when the hammer will fall so they can delude their children into thinking and believing everything is ok with mommy and daddy, life is grand as you take them to dance classs. This is twisted logic. What people NOT working for U fail to understand is, that living with constant uncertainly coupled with threats, punitive policies, the forever black cloud hanging over them messes with ones Psyche whether they realizes it or not, it does. People want it to end and pointing guns at our heads given what we have been through and are going through is the worst possible move because employees will simply say, pull the trigger. It’s human nature and logic doesn’t come into play here. “

USA320Pilot comments: Cav, I disagree. If the “constant uncertainly coupled with threatsâ€￾ makes you want to commit suicide you have bigger problems than this company. Get some help -- I mean it. There is nothing, nothing worth committing suicide over and if this place bothers you so much than do yourself a favor and quit, get a new job, and find SOME help.

IT IS NOT HUMAN NATURE TO HURT YOURSELF OR OTHER PEOPLE -- PERIOD. YES, I AM SHOUTING.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

EVERYONE

I hold up this response by our infamous Mister USA320 as proof of his demented thinking. Where in Cav's post does it say anything about commiting suicide. I am apalled that USA320 would stoop so low as to try to discredit someone that disagrees with him by making insinuations that someone is suicidal and mentally unstable.

I would like to think USAviation will take steps against this violation of ethics by Mister USA320 to make sure this is not allowed to continue

 

[cavalier]

EVERYONE

I hold up this response by our infamous Mister USA320 as proof of his demented thinking. Where in Cav's post does it say anything about commiting suicide. I am apalled that USA320 would stoop so low as to try to discredit someone that disagrees with him by making insinuations that someone is suicidal and mentally unstable.

I would like to think USAviation will take steps against this violation of ethics by Mister USA320 to make sure this is not allowed to continue

THANKS for the fresh air of sanity.


To make it PERFECTLY clear I will explain it AGAIN.

With everything as it is, and management saying do this or will we liquidate, people are going to say and ARE saying to go ahead and liquidate then.

This is ALL I was saying, nothing more nothing less.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Cav:

Cav said: People want it to end and pointing guns at our heads given what we have been through and are going through is the worst possible move because employees will simply say, pull the trigger. It’s human nature and logic doesn’t come into play here.

USA320Pilot comments: If you will simply say "pull the trigger" and let yourself be hurt, why self inflict pain and why not circumnavigate the process and resign from the company. Why not leave now? Why not go find a greener pasture?

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Cav:

Cav said: “So logical to you is go on with the mental anguish the U employees live with every working day of their life wondering when the hammer will fall so they can delude their children into thinking and believing everything is ok with mommy and daddy, life is grand as you take them to dance classs. This is twisted logic. What people NOT working for U fail to understand is, that living with constant uncertainly coupled with threats, punitive policies, the forever black cloud hanging over them messes with ones Psyche whether they realizes it or not, it does. People want it to end and pointing guns at our heads given what we have been through and are going through is the worst possible move because employees will simply say, pull the trigger. It’s human nature and logic doesn’t come into play here. “

USA320Pilot comments: Cav, I disagree. If the “constant uncertainly coupled with threatsâ€￾ makes you want to commit suicide you have bigger problems than this company. Get some help -- I mean it. There is nothing, nothing worth committing suicide over and if this place bothers you so much than do yourself a favor and quit, get a new job, and find SOME help.

IT IS NOT HUMAN NATURE TO HURT YOURSELF OR OTHER PEOPLE -- PERIOD. YES, I AM SHOUTING.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

You are right it is not human nature to hurt yourself or other people but no period.

Its not human nature or morally right to also lie, decieve, manipulate, twist, insinuate and many others I can't think of at this time, to try to sway people to your way of thinking for your own selfish needs and/or agendas. You are playing with peoples lifes and can not for the life of me understand why you are doing it.

You say you are set no matter which way this ends up, then I say WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE. Why do you insist on being the pied piper of management leading the employees to your lala land? When you very well could be leading them to a period of despair if the very real possibility of Usairways not making it, concessions or not, comes true.

I already commented on your incredible reponse to Cav's post but also wanted to say that I do not know if you purposely twisted what he said but you should reread what it said and make a full public retraction.

If you don't I hold it I hold it up as further proof that no matter what you do or say you can never admit you were wrong. I KNOW where your morals stand

 

[USA320Pilot]

usairways_vote_NO:

Why? I am not miserable. Whne the place becomes intolerable, I'll leave.

In regard to Cav's post, he was the one who made the comment about pointing a gun to his head and having the trigger pulled, not me. Did you miss that?

Why be so miserable? Why not show some courage and simply leave the company?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[cavalier]

Cav:

Cav said: People want it to end and pointing guns at our heads given what we have been through and are going through is the worst possible move because employees will simply say, pull the trigger. It’s human nature and logic doesn’t come into play here.

USA320Pilot comments: If you will simply say "pull the trigger" and let yourself be hurt, why self inflict pain and why not circumnavigate the process and resign from the company. Why not leave now? Why not go find a greener pasture?

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

My response is: Once again "usairways_vote_NO" says it perfectly, nuff said.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

usairways_vote_NO:

Why? I am not miserable. Whne the place becomes intolerable, I'll leave.

In regard to Cav's post, he was the one who made the comment about pointing a gun to his head and having the trigger pulled, not me. Did you miss that?

Why be so miserable? Why not show some courage and simply leave the company?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Cav and USA320

USA320 are you a child?

ok I get it baby steps baby steps

Cav correct me if I am wrong and I will apologize

Cav says:
People want it to end

US no says:
you mean employees want the black cloud to be lifted meaning just be able to work at usairways like any other job without threats of job loss, concessions etc.

Cav says:
and pointing guns at our heads given what we have been through

US no: says
you mean after all the crap Usairways put its employees thru and Usairways not doing their part to fix it, then come back for more with threats etc.

Cav says:
and are going through is the worst possible move because employees will simply say, pull the trigger.

US no says:
you mean that the tactics Usairways is using to try to wring more concessions out of employees without showing they have done anything to correct the current problems make employees just want to give up and let usairways ceace to exist

or something to that affect?

Or did you really mean actual suicide as in killing yourself as USA320 implies