Aircraft maint issues

[WeAAsles]

Another reason we need a union that represents AMT'S at the table and on the floor. Too bad this one size catch all industrial loser association is what we have. They even stated they know nothing about aircraft maintenance issues, American Airlines and the commercial aviation industry. Yet we have guys that won't move forward to better our representation with a class and craft union.

They? Who's they?

"They"

Yea I guess GARY PETERSON knows nothing about your issues huh?

"They even stated they know nothing about aircraft maintenance issues, American Airlines and the commercial aviation industry"

How do you come up with this crap?

 

[WeAAsles]

Hey 1AA I guess this guy knows nothing about your issues either huh?

Pantoja initiated into IAM Local 1056 in Jamaica, NY in 1977 as an Aircraft Powerplant Mechanic for TWA. He served as a Shop Steward for Local 1056 until he transferred to Local 949 in St. Louis in 1988. At Local 949, Pantoja served as a Trustee, Recording Secretary and, in 1991, he was elected as the Chairman of the local’s full-time Grievance Committee. In 1996, Pantoja was assigned by IAM Air Transport District 142 to participate in the TWA Flight 800 accident investigation following the 747’s crash off the coast of Long Island.


https://www.goiam.org/news/departments/international-president/executive-council/sito-pantoja/

 

[swamt]

Don't be so sure. Everyone is sick and tired of no progress and the IAM happy to sit at status quo. I am hearing guys who wouldn't sign anything before saying they're ready to get rid of the association. We do have a lot of knuckleheads but they are getting tired of waiting. When Memorial Day comes around they'll be reminded that the IAM guys are happy to let us rot.

As time goes on the troops will get more and more restless. I know some here that are usually and always have been passive at contract times, sure are getting fed up with this long 5 year wait for a contract. We just had this past week of nego's, looking for an update from union to be out probably by Mon or Tues. But like I predicted before I will bet you 10 to 1 that the co. will back away from the unions changes ONCE AGAIN, and not even offer any changes what-so-ever, they are like clock work, so predictable. For the most part, the membership is not expecting any movement from the co. But getting back to your concerns, it really would benefit the membership to go with a union that represents mechanics in aviation as a craft and class representation.

 

[WeAAsles]

As time goes on the troops will get more and more restless. I know some here that are usually and always have been passive at contract times, sure are getting fed up with this long 5 year wait for a contract. We just had this past week of nego's, looking for an update from union to be out probably by Mon or Tues. But like I predicted before I will bet you 10 to 1 that the co. will back away from the unions changes ONCE AGAIN, and not even offer any changes what-so-ever, they are like clock work, so predictable. For the most part, the membership is not expecting any movement from the co. But getting back to your concerns, it really would benefit the membership to go with a union that represents mechanics in aviation as a craft and class representation.

Huh?

On the one hand you say that you've getting frustrated by the 5 year long wait and you don't expect any movement towards your Unions position.

But then you claim that it would benefit these already represented (And a group that's seen first hand movement, pay raises) people to move over to a group like the one that currently is representing you.

Huh?

I can certainly tell that you've never been in sales have you?

 

[MerlinMagician]

Don't be so sure. Everyone is sick and tired of no progress and the IAM happy to sit at status quo. I am hearing guys who wouldn't sign anything before saying they're ready to get rid of the association. We do have a lot of knuckleheads but they are getting tired of waiting. When Memorial Day comes around they'll be reminded that the IAM guys are happy to let us rot.

Old Guy, what makes you think the IAM membership is "Happy to let you rot"? There is nothing farther from the truth. They have been through what you are going through when their contract was abrogated. They had the same concessions i.e. half pay sick days, 5 holidays and so on. Apparently you are looking to blame someone. If that is the case lay the blame with who controls the negotiations, the company. Not sure why the thought is that a JCBA would come quickly when United/Continental's took 5 years. If you want to slow the negotiations to a complete stop for years go ahead with your card drive. You will just play into the company's hand. The America West mentality found a way to run 2 different operations for 10 years when then pilots couldn't come to an agreement within their ranks.

 

[BeechDriver]

The association was created for a reason. To keep the TWU and IAM in power and in the dues collecting business. The company benefits from the association as it provides the company with a self propelled divide and conquer apparatus. The vote determining representation that we were denied probably would have rid us of both of these unions.

I believe the TWU-IAM association leadership has a pretty good idea what the future may have in store for them. Their future may be a JCBA that includes the IAMNPF being rejected by a majority of the members and then a card drive to remove them from power.

The association leadership certainly has a plan for avoiding that outcome. Their plan may include delaying the contract negotiations to the point of frustration influencing members to vote for practically any kind of POS contract that is presented for a vote. Another tactic may be to include a buyout for employees that have grown old waiting for a package and are willing to sell thier yes vote and the rest of us down the river for a lump sum payment.

The company wants to keep the association in power. The longer the association stays in power, the longer we work under a concessionary/bankruptcy contract and the longer future negotiations will take.

AMTs need to rid themselves of the association and adopt ONE union that represents them.

We long ago passed the point where we have more to loose than we have to gain by staying in the association?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Old Guy, what makes you think the IAM membership is "Happy to let you rot"? There is nothing farther from the truth. They have been through what you are going through when their contract was abrogated. They had the same concessions i.e. half pay sick days, 5 holidays and so on. Apparently you are looking to blame someone. If that is the case lay the blame with who controls the negotiations, the company. Not sure why the thought is that a JCBA would come quickly when United/Continental's took 5 years. If you want to slow the negotiations to a complete stop for years go ahead with your card drive. You will just play into the company's hand. The America West mentality found a way to run 2 different operations for 10 years when then pilots couldn't come to an agreement within their ranks.

At the ORD town hall there was a LUS guy who made it quite clear he is very happy with things the way they are. He got the raise and still has his bennies. We got the raise but still don't have them. Just pointing out that the LUS people are not in any hurry and they are satisfied to wait while we continue to suffer. Also it is a fact that the IAM is leading the negotiations for the first two years and so far they have not made much progress. So if the IAM is leading the negotiations and there has been no progress who can we blame? If it's the company then why has there been no picketing campaign or any kind of statements from the IAM? But by the attitude of the LUS guy at the ORD town hall he was very happy to let us rot. If you aren't what are you doing? Are you telling your IAM officials that you want a deal now? We have heard absolutely nothing from your side of the fence. Sure seems like since you guys got yours you couldn't care less about us. Enjoy Memorial Day as we haven't been able to for fourteen years. This "Merge" has only benefited LUS while LAA gets the shaft.

 

[WeAAsles]

Old Guy, what makes you think the IAM membership is "Happy to let you rot"? There is nothing farther from the truth. They have been through what you are going through when their contract was abrogated. They had the same concessions i.e. half pay sick days, 5 holidays and so on. Apparently you are looking to blame someone. If that is the case lay the blame with who controls the negotiations, the company. Not sure why the thought is that a JCBA would come quickly when United/Continental's took 5 years. If you want to slow the negotiations to a complete stop for years go ahead with your card drive. You will just play into the company's hand. The America West mentality found a way to run 2 different operations for 10 years when then pilots couldn't come to an agreement within their ranks.

If you decide to hang around here you'll quickly discover that many of these same posters come here over and over for years upon years talking "card drive" and "we have to rid ourselves of" or "we're victims"

They ran off all the interesting reasonable people with their rocks and if you try to talk reason to them they'll try to run you off as well. Their philosophy is the Union they need to belong to should be an exclusive Country Club and no one else should be drinking from their Water Fountain.

On the "old, tired" Card Drive schtick again here's the dates it should have happened and DIDN'T. 1983, 1995, 2003 and 2012. All terrible years that they should have gotten off their collective Asses and got it done and didn't.

NOW after they just got dramatic pay increases BEFORE they even got a JCBA someone thinks it's the right time? C'mon give me a break!!!!

IBT tried with your group over there and failed and the group they want (Their personal Marilyn Monroe) only got 8 write in votes.

Don't let the silliness fool you. These guys are FAR from suffering and even FARTHER from a card drive (Unless it's a card drive to buy some expensive toys)

 

[AP Tech]

At the ORD town hall there was a LUS guy who made it quite clear he is very happy with things the way they are. He got the raise and still has his bennies. We got the raise but still don't have them. Just pointing out that the LUS people are not in any hurry and they are satisfied to wait while we continue to suffer. Also it is a fact that the IAM is leading the negotiations for the first two years and so far they have not made much progress. So if the IAM is leading the negotiations and there has been no progress who can we blame? If it's the company then why has there been no picketing campaign or any kind of statements from the IAM? But by the attitude of the LUS guy at the ORD town hall he was very happy to let us rot. If you aren't what are you doing? Are you telling your IAM officials that you want a deal now? We have heard absolutely nothing from your side of the fence. Sure seems like since you guys got yours you couldn't care less about us. Enjoy Memorial Day as we haven't been able to for fourteen years. This "Merge" has only benefited LUS while LAA gets the shaft.

Have to apologize for the LUS Lead in ORD who made those comments!! Total embarrassment to the majority of us on the LUS side!! As for communications from the negotiation team, well in my opinion its a joke!!!!! Updates have been a joke, have not seen or heard from our AGC in over 4 months....all we know is the BS update they put out on Fridays......we get more from your guys than ours....

 

[Hackman]

If you decide to hang around here you'll quickly discover that many of these same posters come here over and over for years upon years talking "card drive" and "we have to rid ourselves of" or "we're victims"

They ran off all the interesting reasonable people with their rocks and if you try to talk reason to them they'll try to run you off as well. Their philosophy is the Union they need to belong to should be an exclusive Country Club and no one else should be drinking from their Water Fountain.

On the "old, tired" Card Drive schtick again here's the dates it should have happened and DIDN'T. 1983, 1995, 2003 and 2012. All terrible years that they should have gotten off their collective Asses and got it done and didn't.

NOW after they just got dramatic pay increases BEFORE they even got a JCBA someone thinks it's the right time? C'mon give me a break!!!!

IBT tried with your group over there and failed and the group they want (Their personal Marilyn Monroe) only got 8 write in votes.

Don't let the silliness fool you. These guys are FAR from suffering and even FARTHER from a card drive (Unless it's a card drive to buy some expensive toys)

I've asked this simple question to many a distraught TWu baggage engineer in years past, never get much of an answer except muttering hot sewer gas from the orifice they sit on: Why does said person/s, who has neither a qualifying vote or stake in what the AMT craft and class collectively does, give a rats ass what they do? It seems like a cold deep "Water Fountain" well of wishful thinking of the lot they have in life, so they lash out at those that succeeded where they failed.

They won't go on the pilot forum and snivel about their "country club". They won't go on the F/A forum and demean them about the fact they dumped his beloved TWu in 1978. Strange how that is, those AA groups all have non AFl-CIo unions, but the "elitist" tag and others don't fit their narrative. If they do mouth off out of turn, they get told to get lost.

I surmise I will get the same base simpleton egg-head response from one who wears girly type ear rings, posts pictures of his new small big TV, V6 Mustang (5.0 can be dangerous in wrong hands), his gender confused choice of hair style, and had his questions in a CEO town hall summarily dismissed in public.

Fact is when AMTs are fighting the CompAAny, the Company Union, and the NMB it's somewhat difficult to get a fair shake. The dice are loaded. In 2003 more than enough cards were filed with the NMB for a vote, but due to company/union collusion and padding the list the vote was denied by the NMB, The 2012 cards were not delivered in a timely manner to the NMB due to somebody's bright idea not to have them in DC, and they got out played by they company/union having the IBT scam in the mix. Why a company as large as AA seems to care so much about what union AMT's choose, I find that troubling, but with the TWu past history of failure and weakness, I fully understand why.

If a card drive does start again for M@R, one thing is for sure: an ear ring wearing loud mouth TWu tramp stamp ramper won't be having a say in it. About all that will happen is nonsensical blathering and passing gas on the forum he lives on. Or is paid to post on.

Hopefully the TWu/IAm cluster F will produce after 14 years of record concessions....but I doubt it. If it's another TWu/IAm failure or the IAm pension scam, a card drive will probably start again.

Nothing against rampers, but biased opinions of what AMT's do or don't do are really a waste of effort on your part.

Hint: We don't care what you think.

 

[WeAAsles]

I've asked this simple question to many a distraught TWu baggage engineer in years past, never get much of an answer except muttering hot sewer gas from the orifice they sit on: Why does said person/s, who has neither a qualifying vote or stake in what the AMT craft and class collectively does, give a rats ass what they do? It seems like a cold deep "Water Fountain" well of wishful thinking of the lot they have in life, so they lash out at those that succeeded where they failed.

They won't go on the pilot forum and snivel about their "country club". They won't go on the F/A forum and demean them about the fact they dumped his beloved TWu in 1978. Strange how that is, those AA groups all have non AFl-CIo unions, but the "elitist" tag and others don't fit their narrative. If they do mouth off out of turn, they get told to get lost.

I surmise I will get the same base simpleton egg-head response from one who wears girly type ear rings, posts pictures of his new small big TV, V6 Mustang (5.0 can be dangerous in wrong hands), his gender confused choice of hair style, and had his questions in a CEO town hall summarily dismissed in public.

Fact is when AMTs are fighting the CompAAny, the Company Union, and the NMB it's somewhat difficult to get a fair shake. The dice are loaded. In 2003 more than enough cards were filed with the NMB for a vote, but due to company/union collusion and padding the list the vote was denied by the NMB, The 2012 cards were not delivered in a timely manner to the NMB due to somebody's bright idea not to have them in DC, and they got out played by they company/union having the IBT scam in the mix. Why a company as large as AA seems to care so much about what union AMT's choose, I find that troubling, but with the TWu past history of failure and weakness, I fully understand why.

If a card drive does start again for M@R, one thing is for sure: an ear ring wearing loud mouth TWu tramp stamp ramper won't be having a say in it. About all that will happen is nonsensical blathering and passing gas on the forum he lives on. Or is paid to post on.

Hopefully the TWu/IAm cluster F will produce after 14 years of record concessions....but I doubt it. If it's another TWu/IAm failure or the IAm pension scam, a card drive will probably start again.

Nothing against rampers, but biased opinions of what AMT's do or don't do are really a waste of effort on your part.

Hint: We don't care what you think.

Damn this was good. (Winner) Raw, visceral and solid shot on the jaw.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW the answer to "WHY" is very simple.

Because what we do affects each other more even than any other title group.

I recall an agreement years ago offered to all 7 TWU groups with the contingency that all 7 needed to accept or the offer was off the table. Well Maintenance didn't want that deal so it was taken off the table for ME as well. What Maintenance decided directly and financially impacted ME!!!!! (Not arguing for or against the merits of the deal BTW)

NOW in this Association it seems we "could" be held up again if one group or the other doesn't strike a deal with the Company to send a TA out for a vote to their members.

So let's say (Who knows) the Company did want to gut your SCOPE as some have suggested here and of course understandable that WE aren't going to agree to that. Well then WE (Fleet) will/are/have to stand shoulder to shoulder until the Company offers up what will be acceptable to ALL in the Association to vote on.

YOU effect ME and MINE
I effect YOU and YOURS.
We're STUCK with each other like glue.

WE don't have that same direct connection with any other groups quite like that.

 

[swamt]

The association was created for a reason. To keep the TWU and IAM in power and in the dues collecting business. The company benefits from the association as it provides the company with a self propelled divide and conquer apparatus. The vote determining representation that we were denied probably would have rid us of both of these unions.

I believe the TWU-IAM association leadership has a pretty good idea what the future may have in store for them. Their future may be a JCBA that includes the IAMNPF being rejected by a majority of the members and then a card drive to remove them from power.

The association leadership certainly has a plan for avoiding that outcome. Their plan may include delaying the contract negotiations to the point of frustration influencing members to vote for practically any kind of POS contract that is presented for a vote. Another tactic may be to include a buyout for employees that have grown old waiting for a package and are willing to sell thier yes vote and the rest of us down the river for a lump sum payment.

The company wants to keep the association in power. The longer the association stays in power, the longer we work under a concessionary/bankruptcy contract and the longer future negotiations will take.

AMTs need to rid themselves of the association and adopt ONE union that represents them.

We long ago passed the point where we have more to loose than we have to gain by staying in the association?

I agree with your entire post. The last paragraph is what stands out the most with me and your correct. Not sure what this asso. is planning but one scenario not to ignore is, didn't the previous leader of the TWU force in, or override the memberships NO vote on a contract and signed in the contract anyway? I forget how it went but I do remember at least once if not twice someone overruled the membership's vote and forced a contract on the membership. The reason I bring this up is, could they not do this again and possibly force a new contract thru that includes that pension crap? This is what scares me, and look at how many other things you guys had no vote on, this association had no vote from the membership. Now if they did do it this way I would say absolutely there will be a card drive.

 

[NYer]

I've asked this simple question to many a distraught TWu baggage engineer in years past, never get much of an answer except muttering hot sewer gas from the orifice they sit on: Why does said person/s, who has neither a qualifying vote or stake in what the AMT craft and class collectively does, give a rats ass what they do? It seems like a cold deep "Water Fountain" well of wishful thinking of the lot they have in life, so they lash out at those that succeeded where they failed.

They won't go on the pilot forum and snivel about their "country club". They won't go on the F/A forum and demean them about the fact they dumped his beloved TWu in 1978. Strange how that is, those AA groups all have non AFl-CIo unions, but the "elitist" tag and others don't fit their narrative. If they do mouth off out of turn, they get told to get lost.

I surmise I will get the same base simpleton egg-head response from one who wears girly type ear rings, posts pictures of his new small big TV, V6 Mustang (5.0 can be dangerous in wrong hands), his gender confused choice of hair style, and had his questions in a CEO town hall summarily dismissed in public.

Fact is when AMTs are fighting the CompAAny, the Company Union, and the NMB it's somewhat difficult to get a fair shake. The dice are loaded. In 2003 more than enough cards were filed with the NMB for a vote, but due to company/union collusion and padding the list the vote was denied by the NMB, The 2012 cards were not delivered in a timely manner to the NMB due to somebody's bright idea not to have them in DC, and they got out played by they company/union having the IBT scam in the mix. Why a company as large as AA seems to care so much about what union AMT's choose, I find that troubling, but with the TWu past history of failure and weakness, I fully understand why.

If a card drive does start again for M@R, one thing is for sure: an ear ring wearing loud mouth TWu tramp stamp ramper won't be having a say in it. About all that will happen is nonsensical blathering and passing gas on the forum he lives on. Or is paid to post on.

Hopefully the TWu/IAm cluster F will produce after 14 years of record concessions....but I doubt it. If it's another TWu/IAm failure or the IAm pension scam, a card drive will probably start again.

Nothing against rampers, but biased opinions of what AMT's do or don't do are really a waste of effort on your part.

Hint: We don't care what you think.

We on the Fleet side would like to apologize for the International Troll you've been subjected to.

And congratulations on your "winners"

 

[WeAAsles]

We on the Fleet side would like to apologize for the International Troll you've been subjected to.

And congratulations on your "winners"
View attachment 11699

So says the guy who I believe was 1 of only 2 Presidents brought in and told about the IAM Association by Jim Little. The guy who was told to go sell it and inform everyone we would get a vote when I'm sure he knew that was a lie. The guy who constantly battled Bob Owens on here and didn't want to tell anyone he was an FSC.

The guy who was part of the negotiations and accepted the language of our Prefunding Match telling everyone that the Company would absolutely be successful in ending its retiree medical program and we would get our money back. The guy who hopes we never see a dime of that money for two reasons. #1 because he has no money under his name and # 2 because the last thing he wants is for the current TWU Leaders to look like a success in getting it back to us somehow.

The guy that was promised a spot in the TWU International and lost it when Jim Little was ousted perhaps leading to some sour grapes.

At least this Troll doesn't want to eat his own like it seems you would do in a heartbeat.

Peace.