Aircraft maint issues

[B737 driver]

Yes. Agree. The question is how much more scope? If you guys still maintain the best % in the industry, then where lies the problem as long as every single current employees are protected? I am sorry, but, voting for future employees to come and get to our co. is no longer a huge item on my list of must haves. That is more of a union thing to with with more and more dues to raise the unions income.
On a second note, I agree 100% with Blue Collar. I would also much rather be in a matching 401K than any union pension. This way I control my retirement account.

I am not worried about people who are not here. I figured by the time I retire we will have about 3300 mechanics. That small group is fine by me, AMFA will function just fine. I always looked at us like UPS, smaller group paid better.

 

[Kev3188]

I would also much rather be in a matching 401K than any union pension. This way I control my retirement account.

Exactly.

Better yet, the company can no longer hold it over your head while shaking you down for concessions.

 

[Buck]

Seeing that this is the first time that the company and TWU have ever acknowledged SWA as a contractual reference it is amazing.
In the past, the company said that SWA was a regional and kept them out of negotiations. The TWU, always said that SWA was not a major airline.
Now we see that SWA has become a factor. The fact that the company is stating they are looking for SWA as a gauge they want to use as a competitor.
Are that the American mechanics going to be compensated on the parameters of SWA, Delta or United? These airlines have received major bonuses, that
should allow for American Airlines can match plus 3%. The 3% that Doug Parker has promised. Wasn't it Delta that received $20,000 in compensation and now
that is being ignored in the mechanic's portion of negotiations. How can the AA mechanics ever catch up plus 3%?
Why did the company bring SWA mechanics into the conversation? Outsourcing or Headcount. Is the company trying to compare Fleets scope to United, so they get part-time?

 

[Topcat187]

You nailed my point right on. They may not hit our 70-75% outsourcing but, 69% would be a huge concession for the AA'ers and a big concession even for the IAM'ers. And BTW, who the hell knows how big %'s they are outsourcing if you don't have a union representative monitoring the outsourcing. This was one more of our added gains we got in on this new second offer we are voting on. A must have in my opinion...

So at SWA, you are doing 70% of all aircraft maintenance?

 

[swamt]

Seeing that this is the first time that the company and TWU have ever acknowledged SWA as a contractual reference it is amazing.
In the past, the company said that SWA was a regional and kept them out of negotiations. The TWU, always said that SWA was not a major airline.
Now we see that SWA has become a factor. The fact that the company is stating they are looking for SWA as a gauge they want to use as a competitor.
Are that the American mechanics going to be compensated on the parameters of SWA, Delta or United? These airlines have received major bonuses, that
should allow for American Airlines can match plus 3%. The 3% that Doug Parker has promised. Wasn't it Delta that received $20,000 in compensation and now
that is being ignored in the mechanic's portion of negotiations. How can the AA mechanics ever catch up plus 3%?
Why did the company bring SWA mechanics into the conversation? Outsourcing or Headcount. Is the company trying to compare Fleets scope to United, so they get part-time?

I have wondered the very same.

 

[swamt]

So at SWA, you are doing 70% of all aircraft maintenance?

Yes. Not maint. spend as other contracts state. Big difference.

 

[blue collar]

Yes. Not maint. spend as other contracts state. Big difference.

I’m fairly certain we aren’t doing 70% of the maintenance... I think we outsource 70% of the maintenance.

 

[topDawg]

So we are being offered SWA wages with a lot better scope than SWA has, how is this not a win for the mechanics??

And I for one could care less about scope, its nothing more than a dues grab, but shouldn't this satisfy all the people who b**** about scope.

serious question, how long have you been in the industry?

because I can't believe anyone who has ever been laid off as their job went to China/Mexico etc. etc. would be dumb enough to say they careless about scope.

So we would be like Delta?? Doesn't seem like that would be a bad thing.

with your management? ha no.

You will be more like Northwest post strike. It'd take a few years but that is Parker and a lot of the exNorthwest/Delta rejects running your maintenance departments wet dream. Hell right now they want to take you from a legacy American scope (~35% of work can go out) to US airways scope (50% of airframe overhaul and zero back shop/component/engine protection)

Delta has the work Delta has because management wants to be in the business of selling maintenance to other airlines. They use the scale of Delta to bring in lower cost compared to stand alone MROs.
Doug, on the other hand, doesn't believe in selling MRO work.

on top of all of that, Delta keeps it pretty industry standard. As United and American have sent out more and more work so has Delta.

Delta lays off by seniority just like a union shop.

not always. there have been times where Delta has done what they wanted to reduce the windfall down the line.

 

[topDawg]

I’m fairly certain we aren’t doing 70% of the maintenance... I think we outsource 70% of the maintenance.

correct.

 

[MikeS]

serious question, how long have you been in the industry?

because I can't believe anyone who has ever been laid off as their job went to China/Mexico etc. etc. would be dumb enough to say they careless about scope.

with your management? ha no.

You will be more like Northwest post strike. It'd take a few years but that is Parker and a lot of the exNorthwest/Delta rejects running your maintenance departments wet dream. Hell right now they want to take you from a legacy American scope (~35% of work can go out) to US airways scope (50% of airframe overhaul and zero back shop/component/engine protection)

Delta has the work Delta has because management wants to be in the business of selling maintenance to other airlines. They use the scale of Delta to bring in lower cost compared to stand alone MROs.
Doug, on the other hand, doesn't believe in selling MRO work.

on top of all of that, Delta keeps it pretty industry standard. As United and American have sent out more and more work so has Delta.

not always. there have been times where Delta has done what they wanted to reduce the windfall down the line.

34 years in the industry. I can't believe anyone that's been in this industry as long as I have been is dumb enough to believe that scope in a contract actually works. Every contract that I have been here for we always take less money to save jobs. As soon as the contract passes we lose jobs, I'm not giving up money for scope ever again. So who is the dummy, the guy who falls for the same union B.S. every time a new contract rolls around, or someone who decides he's had enough of the 1950's union mentality.

 

[B737 driver]

serious question, how long have you been in the industry?

because I can't believe anyone who has ever been laid off as their job went to China/Mexico etc. etc. would be dumb enough to say they careless about scope.

with your management? ha no.

You will be more like Northwest post strike. It'd take a few years but that is Parker and a lot of the exNorthwest/Delta rejects running your maintenance departments wet dream. Hell right now they want to take you from a legacy American scope (~35% of work can go out) to US airways scope (50% of airframe overhaul and zero back shop/component/engine protection)

Delta has the work Delta has because management wants to be in the business of selling maintenance to other airlines. They use the scale of Delta to bring in lower cost compared to stand alone MROs.
Doug, on the other hand, doesn't believe in selling MRO work.

on top of all of that, Delta keeps it pretty industry standard. As United and American have sent out more and more work so has Delta.

not always. there have been times where Delta has done what they wanted to reduce the windfall down the line.

Scope and seniority is all you have. With Parker ex America West mentality race to the bottom I am sure he wants more of a Northwest maintenance program then Delta Airlines. Northwest post IAM went from 9500 mechanics, to post strike 1800 to run their line operation, no heavy checks.

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

34 years in the industry. I can't believe anyone that's been in this industry as long as I have been is dumb enough to believe that scope in a contract actually works. Every contract that I have been here for we always take less money to save jobs. As soon as the contract passes we lose jobs, I'm not giving up money for scope ever again. So who is the dummy, the guy who falls for the same union B.S. every time a new contract rolls around, or someone who decides he's had enough of the 1950's union mentality.

What do you expect. Grease monkeys and bag smashers negotiating against highly educated union busting professionals!

 

[scorpion 2]

You nailed my point right on. They may not hit our 70-75% outsourcing but, 69% would be a huge concession for the AA'ers and a big concession even for the IAM'ers. And BTW, who the hell knows how big %'s they are outsourcing if you don't have a union representative monitoring the outsourcing. This was one more of our added gains we got in on this new second offer we are voting on. A must have in my opinion...

The 35% outsourcing language is very misleading. It’s 35% of the net work that falls into the parameters of the scope. Not 35% of the gross maintenance performed. Big difference.
In 2001 we had 18,600 maintenance n related and outsourced 20% according to the union n company.
Now we have around 9600 n supposedly outsource 35%. We must be super efficient and productive in our older stage of life.
Half the workforce and only outsourcing 15% more hmmm, how does that work?
It would take a full time accounting firm to keep up with all the caveats built into the scope language.
So by no means is 35% an accurate number.

 

[swamt]

I’m fairly certain we aren’t doing 70% of the maintenance... I think we outsource 70% of the maintenance.

OOps. I misread his question. I was thinking he asked 70% outsourcing. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[swamt]

So at SWA, you are doing 70% of all aircraft maintenance?

Yes. Not maint. spend as other contracts state. Big difference.

CORRECTION:
Sorry TopCat, I misread your question. We have always outsourced 70-75% and even touched on 80% at times. We have one of the largest outsourcing % in the airlines. Did not mean to reflect that we do 70% maint. in house, Blue is correct when he corrected my statement. We only do approx 30-40% maint. in house. My bad.