Aircraft maint issues

[WeAAsles]

Hey weez you don’t like anyone who disagrees with you. I’m not causing trouble I do not agree with you are the iam are twu. Are the association that has 2 members that get to vote on weather we get a ta are not. I’m sure I’m not the only one on here that feels. That way I just had foot surgery and the area so big they couldn’t sew it all up I still have a big hole in my foot and where my little toe used to be. Since 14 I have had 5 major stomach surgeries and a hip repair so excuse me if I do not spell correctly punctuation correctly . You need to stop being a first class jerk. People are going through things. So stop judging me you don’t know me . I will not answer your question that was way below the belt.

You know why I tagged you Conehead777. I sent you a private message. Stop trolling me and I’ll stop mocking you. I’m sorry about your many Medical issues and have told you that before but that’s not going to give you a free pass with me when you’re the one that’s asked for it.

 

[swamt]

Even in your example, SWA outsources a ton of A&P work (wrenching). The trend of giving up more to get a raise needs to stop!

I have always liked AMFA and its concept of all Mechanics in one union, but I'm not overly impressed with how little work the SWA AMTs actually do on their planes.

Great that you are a fan of AMFA. It's NOT AMFA's fault with the 70-75% outsourcing they do. This % was set when, way back when, the IAM was here at garnered the very first unionized contract here at SWA. Then not too terribly long after that the teamsters took over and inherited the contract. From then on for over 30 years the teamsters agreed to and nego more and more outsourcing. As we grew the % pretty much stayed the very same throughout, and as it is today. AMFA just inherited what the IAM and teamsters originally started here at SWA. We have always been told here that they will pay us highest in the industry all the while running leaner and thinner. And we are ok with it.
The % of outsourcing is the very same as they were back in the IAM and teamsters days. Matter fact today I even think we are at closer to 70% since we are at 750 plus a/c.
Since AMFA has come in we have had a ton of work come back in maint lines, overhaul, backshops, and other work. AMFA has also been successful in doubling the Dallas lines from 2 to 4 lines of heavy maint. and protected them. I agree with you that we do in fact farm out a lot of maint. but, we are pretty happy with what we do and what we have.

 

[B737 driver]

Me too

I was a lot harsh, but even though I started over a few times, I was blessed when I got on with SWA, and in the end AMFA proved better than the Teamsters. I was afraid of a Northwest disaster.

 

[swamt]

I was a lot harsh, but even though I started over a few times, I was blessed when I got on with SWA, and in the end AMFA proved better than the Teamsters. I was afraid of a Northwest disaster.

SWA was expecting a job action or a strike from AMFA. AMFA learned from the NWA fiasco that stay at work works way better. Everyone still gets paid and all our work is done in compliance so there is nothing the co. can do except scream "the mechanics are pulling a job action". But, they would have to prove that in court and they would have lost big time and it all would have backfired big time on them. And this is why we all of a sudden were offered a second T/A in just a matter of 3-5 days on nego after 6.5 long years. The co. finally said enough is enough get it done at whatever it takes, so here we are voting on a second T/A with much, much more improvements than the first one had.
Now I will be the first one to apologize to everyone for it taking nearly 7 years, however, how pissed off would the members be if they had voted in the other offer without the added protections, jobs and positions and also several thousand dollars shorter per year and two years missing raises?
Still waiting on the co. to send our emails with the numbers to verify. I already have mine computed and as long as they have the same, close or better I will pass on my yes vote. BTW doesn't full retro sound a lot better than the first bonus offer they made to us? Not to mention the snap up on April 1st. AMFA, NC, Attorney's and our Expert Economist did a great job in my opinion.
Just glad that this roller coaster is almost over with (fingers crossed) We should be getting that email some time this next week, and hopefully early.

I hope our new contract results will help the AA guys to relook at getting AMFA in there. Just not sure if they want to try it again or not. I would also think this time around that AMFA National would get more involved with Brett being at the helm and also from AA. He was a very dedicated AMFA supporter when he was at AA. I wish AMFA National would get more active with trying to represent those guys. Maybe after this contract like we did with the teamsters. Being this far into nego's I think I would wait.
Also waiting to see where their nego's is going after the NMB gets back to both parties on the next steps going forward...

 

[MikeS]

So we are being offered SWA wages with a lot better scope than SWA has, how is this not a win for the mechanics??

And I for one could care less about scope, its nothing more than a dues grab, but shouldn't this satisfy all the people who b**** about scope.

 

[swamt]

So we are being offered SWA wages with a lot better scope than SWA has, how is this not a win for the mechanics??

And I for one could care less about scope, its nothing more than a dues grab, but shouldn't this satisfy all the people who b**** about scope.

Mike, I haven't heard anything about scope as of yet after they said they would pay you guys SWA wages. I don't think you guys are being offered the same scope level with the SWA wage offer. I would be leaning more towards they are probably asking for huge outsourcing % increases. Now yes it very well could be less than ours but, it could very easily risk a lot of more jobs than originally asked for to get those wages offered. As we are hearing now that scope is the biggest hold up at this point with the pension and medical running a close second.
Can anyone show us the scope proposal or ask with these wages? Oh, wait a minute, the asso doesn't want the membership to see that, never mind. Co. just wants you guys to see the wages just like our first offer too. Careful about not caring about scope, scope can dictate headcount and jobs and even positions, so careful what you wish for when it comes to scope.

 

[WeAAsles]

So we are being offered SWA wages with a lot better scope than SWA has, how is this not a win for the mechanics??

And I for one could care less about scope, its nothing more than a dues grab, but shouldn't this satisfy all the people who b**** about scope.

FYI if you had no Scope language at all they could outsource all of you at the Company’s discretion.

If you own no work at all in your Contract then you may as well throw the rest of your Contract into the fire.

 

[Rogallo]

 

[Vortilon]

Even in your example, SWA outsources a ton of A&P work (wrenching). The trend of giving up more to get a raise needs to stop!

I have always liked AMFA and its concept of all Mechanics in one union, but I'm not overly impressed with how little work the SWA AMTs actually do on their planes.

The amount of maintenance SWA outsources was like that from day 1 - under the Teamsters. AMFA has actually fought; with some success, to do more in house maintenance.

 

[MikeS]

FYI if you had no Scope language at all they could outsource all of you at the Company’s discretion.

If you own no work at all in your Contract then you may as well throw the rest of your Contract into the fire.

So we would be like Delta?? Doesn't seem like that would be a bad thing.

 

[B737 driver]

So we would be like Delta?? Doesn't seem like that would be a bad thing.

Delta lays off by seniority just like a union shop.

 

[Slopoke]

So we are being offered SWA wages with a lot better scope than SWA has, how is this not a win for the mechanics??

And I for one could care less about scope, its nothing more than a dues grab, but shouldn't this satisfy all the people who b**** about scope.

I don't think that the AMTs working at Tule, DWH or the LUS overhaul bases would be happy with that idea. If the post by SWAMT a few posts up is correct and I quote "It's NOT AMFA's fault with the 70-75% outsourcing they do. This % was set when, way back when, the IAM was here at garnered the very first unionized contract here at SWA", then 69 percent is better than Southwest.

IIRC our outsourcing at TULE is 35 percent. Tulsa would be decimated, the IAM overhaul docks would take a major hit as IIRC, their outsourcing is 50 percent. I'd imagine a number of folks hit by the layoffs at the bases would probably send major bump ripples throughout the system. The entire scenario would not be pretty for a large number of people.

 

[swamt]

I don't think that the AMTs working at Tule, DWH or the LUS overhaul bases would be happy with that idea. If the post by SWAMT a few posts up is correct and I quote "It's NOT AMFA's fault with the 70-75% outsourcing they do. This % was set when, way back when, the IAM was here at garnered the very first unionized contract here at SWA", then 69 percent is better than Southwest.

IIRC our outsourcing at TULE is 35 percent. Tulsa would be decimated, the IAM overhaul docks would take a major hit as IIRC, their outsourcing is 50 percent. I'd imagine a number of folks hit by the layoffs at the bases would probably send major bump ripples throughout the system. The entire scenario would not be pretty for a large number of people.

You nailed my point right on. They may not hit our 70-75% outsourcing but, 69% would be a huge concession for the AA'ers and a big concession even for the IAM'ers. And BTW, who the hell knows how big %'s they are outsourcing if you don't have a union representative monitoring the outsourcing. This was one more of our added gains we got in on this new second offer we are voting on. A must have in my opinion...

 

[MikeS]

I don't think that the AMTs working at Tule, DWH or the LUS overhaul bases would be happy with that idea. If the post by SWAMT a few posts up is correct and I quote "It's NOT AMFA's fault with the 70-75% outsourcing they do. This % was set when, way back when, the IAM was here at garnered the very first unionized contract here at SWA", then 69 percent is better than Southwest.

IIRC our outsourcing at TULE is 35 percent. Tulsa would be decimated, the IAM overhaul docks would take a major hit as IIRC, their outsourcing is 50 percent. I'd imagine a number of folks hit by the layoffs at the bases would probably send major bump ripples throughout the system. The entire scenario would not be pretty for a large number of people.

I'm not advocating outsourcing, my point is that you can't have everything, SWA gets the pay they get because they have a lot of outsourcing, If we want to be paid like that we are gonna have to give a little on scope.

 

[swamt]

I'm not advocating outsourcing, my point is that you can't have everything, SWA gets the pay they get because they have a lot of outsourcing, If we want to be paid like that we are gonna have to give a little on scope.

Yes. Agree. The question is how much more scope? If you guys still maintain the best % in the industry, then where lies the problem as long as every single current employees are protected? I am sorry, but, voting for future employees to come and get to our co. is no longer a huge item on my list of must haves. That is more of a union thing to with with more and more dues to raise the unions income.
On a second note, I agree 100% with Blue Collar. I would also much rather be in a matching 401K than any union pension. This way I control my retirement account.