Aircraft maint issues

[B737 driver]

I used to believe in strength in numbers with the Teamsters. It took 5 years for United, and 6 years at UPS. We had a deal at 5.5. years that was rejected, we are now at 6.6 years, and this one that will probably pass. By having all your dates amenable at the same time, with different language , with different negotiating committee , you will never achieve ratification at the same time, and hold the other groups up. So if the bigger group is ramp, you can sacrifice maintenance , for the bigger group, and blame the company at the same time.

 

[bigjets]

Despite the fact that we did not vote on our union representation. The Association is largest union with most members (strength in numbers) we are still the only union on property with no contract. Everyday we leave money on the table.

History lesson for you. The TWA IAM members all got the short end of the stick when TWA and AA was combined. ALL FAs were put on bottom of the seniority list and all were eventually laid off when hard times hit airlines. The mechs got 25% of their seniority and were moved throughout AA system during layoffs. They were treated so bad congress actually had to make a law to integrate workforces during a merger.

I’m not exactly sure which union is worse for us. IAM or TWU, seeing how every lay-off is handled differently and language can be manipulated by company and/or TWU, and seeing how IAM didn’t really do too much for TWA or UAL over the last several decades. Together they seem scared and used skullduggery to “win” representation of AA ground workers. Too bad they didn’t take a vote so we can have one union speaking with one voice fighting for all members instead of just the members in their fiefdom.

 

[Kev3188]

Amen Bigjets.


As to which is worse during a lay-off? I’ll have to go with the TWU here, and their bullsh*t idea of “juniority.” At least when I was under an IAM CBA, I could exercise anywhere onto the system my seniority could hold.

 

[B737 driver]

It’s quite clear you don’t grasp the strength in numbers.
UA, where was there strength in numbers? Only IBT members were mechanics, no ramp, no pilots, no FAs, no CSA, so one group isn’t strength in numbers. Your own group, loners, no strength in numbers.

History is on my side not yours, here are some examples:
TWA- Ramp, Mechanics, Flight Attendants, Stores, CSA and Res, all IAM, that’s strength in numbers. When CSA and Res were newly organized company wouldn’t give them a contract, or shall I say a fair contract, all four other Class and Craft told TW management that if you won’t give them a fair contract, we won’t agree to one either, TW management got the message and CSA and Res got a fair first agreement.

NW: Ramp, Stores, CSA, RES, (mechanics before they went AMFA), Admin, clerks, Security Gaurds all IAM, that’s strength in numbers.

UA: Ramp, Stores, CSA, RES, (mechanics before they went AMFA), Flight Kitchens, all IAM, that’s strength in numbers.

US: Ramp, Mechanic and Related and Stores all IAM, that’s strength in numbers.

AA: Ramp, Stores and Mechanics all TWU, that’s strength in numbers.

Not your lone Wolf at NW and AMFA got destroyed.

Lone Wolf at WN, 7 years, and you paid for your raises by bringing no work in and agreed to sellout your USA based class and craft and agreed to eight domestic outsourced lines to go anywhere in the world.

All Association represented groups have their own separate negotiating committees, own separate negotiations, own separate mediators. Each class and craft will vote on their own JCBAs, not anyone else’s.

Oh I forgot to add, all the CBAs has the same amendable dates, and all ratified their CBAs at the same time.

This was your lesson on what strength in numbers mean.

UPS all Teamsters , one of my favorite unions, because I was a Teamster , 6 years, with one rejection for the mechanics. As far as SWA we will never have 10,000 or more mechanics like American , because our low cost would be gone. We are paid, what we are paid because we run lean and always will. I will gladly take my 9.3 % 401k match, and my over 11% in profit sharing anyday over a pension plan, that unfortunately will be bankrupt. Then you will get 40% if you are lucky, once the government has to take control of it. You must have a crystal ball or an inside track with Parker and company , if you say all these contracts will ratify at the same time. Now I fully understand American Airlines mechanics, frustration.

 

[B737 driver]

That's how it should be, it's why we argued for the 4 year bump for our guys over Airtran. If it would have gone to arbitration we might have only gotten two years, or a dovetail.

 

[bigjets]

Sure, here’s the rest of the story. The TWU and IAM two afl cio unions couldn’t agree on how seniority should work, so they went to the an arbitrator using the kashin decision (or name similar to that)as opposed to unions working it out. Two AFL CIO unions no less.

Personally I think TWA deal should have been called off after 9/11, and we should have picked up what good routes were left during liquidation

 

[Kev3188]

You come through with that link for me yet?

 

[bigjets]

Not sure what youre talking about.

 

[dfw gen]

You still have not answered the question. If they are in fact all separate contracts, then how could one group being held up from getting a contract out by any other of the groups? Why are the mechanics being held up by say fleet or visa versa??
Also, if they are separate contracts, then why can't the mechanics get a different amendable date for thiers???
And your wrong, we have read updates where, I believe it was Peterson, that said fleet side was holding up the mechanics or mechs were holding up fleet over scope. I do remember that. I may have the wrong guy but there were a couple postings putting the blame on other groups.

We are all seperate one has nothing to do with the other. Wink wink. If they all happen to settle at the same time its a coincidence. Wink wink. There are absouloutly no such thing as flow thru items. Wink.wink.

 

[dfw gen]

Sure, here’s the rest of the story. The TWU and IAM two afl cio unions couldn’t agree on how seniority should work, so they went to the an arbitrator using the kashin decision (or name similar to that)as opposed to unions working it out. Two AFL CIO unions no less.

Personally I think TWA deal should have been called off after 9/11, and we should have picked up what good routes were left during liquidation

Or its a good opportunity for plausible deniability.... we couldnt agree wink wink, blame the arbitrator. Wink wink. Cant beleive he did that wink wink . But oh well its binding

 

[B737 driver]

Taken to school please, your lack of concern because you are IAM , explains you really don't care how long this takes, you have the cheaper medical, the more holidays, plus your double time. So you give lip service to the TWU guys , you are in their fight what a Fing joke!

 

[bigjets]

Or its a good opportunity for plausible deniability.... we couldnt agree wink wink, blame the arbitrator. Wink wink. Cant beleive he did that wink wink . But oh well its binding

Just like with crew chief seniority, I'm betting that's why they didn't take a vote, can't/won't make a decision or more likely afraid another union would try and force their way into AA.

 

[WeAAsles]

They were already outsourced remember. They just agreed to allow the Company to outsource them away even further for a few more nickels and dimes.

Screw the American worker I guess as long as he or she doesn’t live in their house.

 

[B737 driver]

It's called business , the other Airlines out bid SWA for the United States MRO business, so the maintenance has to be done somewhere. The 8 lines are really 5,-because 3 sunset. How much work, can ALR handle? But this is supposed to be an American thread, you need to defend your side of the Association , the IAM side, tell us what leverage do you have to get to the finish line, and produce a T/A? I bitched and moaned at Swampy for 2 years, and was proven wrong. So how do you prove your Association right?

 

[B737 driver]

The work stays the same, we got our international downlines back, they didn't want to give that at all, we got more than they wanted to pay. Well as long as the long hot summer sounds like American should stock extra parts, never know when something will break.