Aircraft maint issues

[WeAAsles]

All at the same time, how in the hell do you figure scope, and a pay scale for all those groups. With both language from the IAM and the TWU. No wonder you guys have hit a wall. It's a perfect situation for the unions, and the company. They can constantly blame each other. American saves money, and the unions collecting the dues. I know now why it is such as mess. And I thought our situation was tough.

This has not been updated since last July but most Articles starting completely from scratch have been completed.

https://www.local591.com/docs/M&R MLS JCBA Article by Article Percentage Completed July 26 2018.pdf

And don’t forget driver you guys were only negotiating one Contract not even from scratch and it took you guys close to 7 years to get it done for only 2300 people. Your situation wasn’t tough, it was ridiculous.

 

[B737 driver]

So let me get this straight they formed an association because the IAM and TWU, couldn't agree to who has control. You guys are negotiating contracts with separate committees, with four separate groups, and they all have the same amenable dates. AMFA represents 3 different groups at SWA us, cleaners, and facilities maintenance, all three separate contracts, and all 3 separate amenable dates. We even have the TWU and the IAM, and SWAPA, and the Teamsters , they seem to be able to function just fine. Sounds like you guys were sold a bad bag of goods, not letting the TWU and the IAM hold elections to see who controls which group. Only then will you be truly separate.

 

[B737 driver]

This has not been updated since last July but most Articles starting completely from scratch have been completed.

https://www.local591.com/docs/M&R MLS JCBA Article by Article Percentage Completed July 26 2018.pdf

And don’t forget driver you guys were only negotiating one Contract not even from scratch and it took you guys close to 7 years to get it done for only 2300 people. Your situation wasn’t tough, it was ridiculous.

It took that long because they wanted to gut scope until last year. I voted yes to keep scope, because I did not want to gamble another year. And when it didn't pass I was pissed off. However I was proven wrong and now I am glad the first one didn't pass, because in the course of things it worked out, and SWA new guy and the new negotiating team change on the AMFA side made me about $200,000 more over the lifetime what is left of my career here. I fully understand why the American mechanics are so pissed off at this situation. You as a ramper are limited in your earning capacity if you guys get say $33 top out. The American AMT if they surpass our new deal, only if they force the company to move, are looking at a ton of earnings disappears everyday , unless the Association can come to an agreement.

 

[WeAAsles]

So let me get this straight they formed an association because the IAM and TWU, couldn't agree to who has control. You guys are negotiating contracts with separate committees, with four separate groups, and they all have the same amenable dates. AMFA represents 3 different groups at SWA us, cleaners, and facilities maintenance, all three separate contracts, and all 3 separate amenable dates. We even have the TWU and the IAM, and SWAPA, and the Teamsters , they seem to be able to function just fine. Sounds like you guys were sold a bad bag of goods, not letting the TWU and the IAM hold elections to see who controls which group. Only then will you be truly separate.

That’s what a Union should be, “separate”

driver what Union exactly are you trying to sell here now? AMFA or Teamsters?

Maybe you should wait to see if your Group even ratifies that almost 7 year deal you wasted so much time on before you break out the pretty colorful pamphlets for these guys.

 

[WeAAsles]

It took that long because they wanted to gut scope until last year. I voted yes to keep scope, because I did not want to gamble another year. And when it didn't pass I was pissed off. However I was proven wrong and now I am glad the first one didn't pass, because in the course of things it worked out, and SWA new guy and the new negotiating team change on the AMFA side made me about $200,000 more over the lifetime what is left of my career here. I fully understand why the American mechanics are so pissed off at this situation. You as a ramper are limited in your earning capacity if you guys get say $33 top out. The American AMT if they surpass our new deal, only if they force the company to move, are looking at a ton of earnings disappears everyday , unless the Association can come to an agreement.

Yea personally I could give a rats ass about your lousy group over there that sold out your own Class and Craft out of the USA.

Do you really think after all these years that it took you guys anyone here is now stupid enough to buy what you’re selling?

Even “Bad Salesman” 1AA disappeared.

EVERY TIME any group in the Industry is involved in tough negotiations there’s gonna be some sleezebags trying to sell on top of the discourse and anger.

 

[bigjets]

Are you so arrogant to think that you and the IAM were the only ones to think of negotiating for better health insurance, and no other union thought of that? wow

Do you think the IAM mechs and ramp will be able to keep insurance, when nobody else did. I'm guessing you do, you probably think no other union thought to ask for it. Did you also think that all the mechs wouldn't mind being part of the association, because the IAM is the only union to think of health insurance during negotiations?

The APA, APFA and CWA aren't overly concerned with us but I can also say that about the association also. I can't get a straight answer from one union guy to the next, ask the same question to 5 different guys and you will get 5 different answers.

 

[B737 driver]

That’s what a Union should be, “separate”

driver what Union exactly are you trying to sell here now? AMFA or Teamsters?

Maybe you should wait to see if your Group even ratifies that almost 7 year deal you wasted so much time on before you break out the pretty colorful pamphlets for these guys.

I am not trying to sell any group. All 4 of our locals are recommending this deal. Everyone for the most part at MDW are happy, they just wanted their C check line protected, and their full backpay. Last year I was the 20% yes, vs the 80% no. AMFA will never be at American, nor will the mechanics trust the Teamsters, after the election fiasco. If you really wanted to help, your union the TWU, I would push for an election for one union, and take all the Association notes and at least you guys would be on the same page. If the IAM loses then at least it was honest. That's what happens in mergers. At least you guys kept your seniority. I lost what little I had when SWA gobbled Morris Air.

 

[B737 driver]

Yea personally I could give a rats ass about your lousy group over there that sold out your own Class and Craft out of the USA.

Do you really think after all these years that it took you guys anyone here is now stupid enough to buy what you’re selling?

Even “Bad Salesman” 1AA disappeared.

EVERY TIME any group in the Industry is involved in tough negotiations there’s gonna be some sleezebags trying to sell on top of the discourse and anger.

What Sleaze bags, you are stabbing your own union in the back, the TWU and weaking it at the same time.

 

[WeAAsles]

I am not trying to sell any group. All 4 of our locals are recommending this deal. Everyone for the most part at MDW are happy, they just wanted their C check line protected, and their full backpay. Last year I was the 20% yes, vs the 80% no. AMFA will never be at American, nor will the mechanics trust the Teamsters, after the election fiasco. If you really wanted to help, your union the TWU, I would push for an election for one union, and take all the Association notes and at least you guys would be on the same page. If the IAM loses then at least it was honest. That's what happens in mergers. At least you guys kept your seniority. I lost what little I had when SWA gobbled Morris Air.

Who cares what you think man. You flip flop more than Pancakes at a Boy Scout Jamboree.

Go pass your deal, get yer money, and enjoy your life.

What Sleaze bags, you are stabbing your own union in the back, the TWU and weaking it at the same time.

A Sleaze Bag is someone who strikes when people are at their most vulnerable. They try to sell greener grass made out of plastic.

Or maybe you work for the Company’s? Maybe your not an AMT at all? And please don’t give me your stories anymore ok.

 

[B737 driver]

Who cares what you think man. You flip flop more than Pancakes at a Boy Scout Jamboree.

Go pass your deal, get yer money, and enjoy your life.



A Sleaze Bag is someone who strikes when people are at their most vulnerable. They try to sell greener grass made out of plastic.

Or maybe you work for the Company’s? Maybe your not an AMT at all? And please don’t give me your stories anymore ok.

Why because you can't face the fact, that unfortunately by letting an Association form, you have weakened your position to bargain. I don't personally care which union you guys use. If American had one union, you could bargain in strength because you would have the same scope, and then you are fighting one battle. Every airline merger or out right buy out has had an election if there were two different unions. Or if the other airline didn't have a union, accept for Delta then the one union took over that group. Delta still had elections they just choose not to be represented.

 

[WeAAsles]

Why because you can't face the fact, that unfortunately by letting an Association form, you have weakened your position to bargain. I don't personally care which union you guys use. If American had one union, you could bargain in strength because you would have the same scope, and then you are fighting one battle. Every airline merger or out right buy out has had an election if there were two different unions. Or if the other airline didn't have a union, accept for Delta then the one union took over that group. Delta still had elections they just choose not to be represented.

Dude go play with your suckey lousy 2300 coworkers. We have 30,000 people over here.

Your like Howard Cunningham’s Hardware store with only 2 types of Hammers for sale.

You don’t even have a clue what you’re talking about. No, even if it was one Union there would still be separate contracts and JOINT contracts would need to be negotiated.

BTW are you planning on putting in an application to work at AA? If not.........

 

[B737 driver]

Dude go play with your suckey lousy 2300 coworkers. We have 30,000 people over here.

Your like Howard Cunningham’s Hardware store with only 2 types of Hammers for sale.

You don’t even have a clue what you’re talking about. No, even if it was one Union there would still be separate contracts and JOINT contracts would need to be negotiated.

BTW are you planning on putting in an application to work at AA? If not.........

Have fun, wish you guys luck, maybe why so few are on forums anymore, no one takes it serious.

 

[Kev3188]

All at the same time, how in the hell do you figure scope, and a pay scale for all those groups. With both language from the IAM and the TWU. No wonder you guys have hit a wall. It's a perfect situation for the unions, and the company. They can constantly blame each other. American saves money, and the unions collecting the dues. I know now why it is such as mess. And I thought our situation was tough.

So let me get this straight they formed an association because the IAM and TWU, couldn't agree to who has control. You guys are negotiating contracts with separate committees, with four separate groups, and they all have the same amenable dates....
...Sounds like you guys were sold a bad bag of goods, not letting the TWU and the IAM hold elections to see who controls which group. Only then will you be truly separate.

BINGO.

When you distill it down, this is what the last several years comes down to. It's really that simple.

Dude go play with your suckey lousy 2300 coworkers. We have 30,000 people over here.

Your like Howard Cunningham’s Hardware store with only 2 types of Hammers for sale.

You don’t even have a clue what you’re talking about. No, even if it was one Union there would still be separate contracts and JOINT contracts would need to be negotiated.

BTW are you planning on putting in an application to work at AA? If not.........

Go home Weez, you're drunk.

 

[swamt]

You still have not answered the question. If they are in fact all separate contracts, then how could one group being held up from getting a contract out by any other of the groups? Why are the mechanics being held up by say fleet or visa versa??
Also, if they are separate contracts, then why can't the mechanics get a different amendable date for thiers???
And your wrong, we have read updates where, I believe it was Peterson, that said fleet side was holding up the mechanics or mechs were holding up fleet over scope. I do remember that. I may have the wrong guy but there were a couple postings putting the blame on other groups.

 

[swamt]

Have fun, wish you guys luck, maybe why so few are on forums anymore, no one takes it serious.

Typical weezal. As soon as you prove him wrong about this fiasco of an asso. he demands that you leave or get out or he'll just start ignoring you like he has me. Like Kev said, you hit the nail right on the head. It really is that simple indeed.