Aircraft maint issues

[WeAAsles]

Twu and communications have never seemed to go hand and hand. They do not listen to there members we have a lineman as are Intl president that we did not get to vote on it. The twu is a bus driver union not an airline mechanics union. That’s why most aa mechanics wants a change either amfa are our own independent union. Ran by

most amt do not want the twu they never work for us only the other work groups. If a card drive independent are amfa it is the only way us amts are going to get a union for our interest

 

[WeAAsles]

What is your problem WeAAs? ARE they going to win AA mechanics over and brag how they stopped OFFSHORING maintenance but not OUTSOURCING here in the US? It sounds like it is damned if you do, damned if you don't with respect to you.
First the TWU is crying foul about the Brazil hangar as outsourcing? Are they that naive to believe that the company would not outsource more on US soil?
By only complaining about foreign work gives airlines an out. Should we be happy if AA outsourced way more work to 3rd part US vendors?

I had to come back to this again Metal cause I do genuinely like a majority of the things you post even if I don’t agree with all of them.

Let’s pretend you had that Union of your choice and everything is exactly as it is right now. What do YOU want to do or think your Union should do for you but isn’t?

Should they not care about the “Long Game” as Peterson called it and give in and take what the Company is offering? Shrink down some of your ranks so you can make as much as possible?

What about Title 2? To Hell with them or not? Or let them and everyone else go it alone?

No condemnation. Just asking your opinion?

 

[Buck]

If it was Donald Trump or Paul Ryan who spoke I would have provided the YouTube as well.

Otherwise, take your Political crap up to the Water Cooler.

This was about does the Union have Political connections of ANY kind period.

You can not take the origin of the very organization we are discussing to the water cooler.
I am not discussing which political party is running for a position, but where the TWU began.
What do you think the AFL/CIO is? You can leave the Republican Party completely out of this conversation
You are the only one that brought up the President.
.

 

[WeAAsles]

You can not take the origin of the very organization we are discussing to the water cooler.
I am not discussing which political party is running for a position, but where the TWU began.
What do you think the AFL/CIO is? You can leave the Republican Party completely out of this conversation
You are the only one that brought up the President.
.

I said Cuomo might run for POTUS. And I’m not getting into any ideological dialogues with any of you here cause they’re useless nonsense that never goes anywhere anyway.

It’s the same thing as being a Stupid Armchair Quarterback. Meaningless.

 

[Buck]

I said Cuomo might run for POTUS. And I’m not getting into any ideological dialogues with any of you here cause they’re useless nonsense that never goes anywhere anyway.

It’s the same thing as being a Stupid Armchair Quarterback. Meaningless.

This is about representation that the union provides, was it you or B737 that was talking a presence of a union representative in Washington?

 

[WeAAsles]

This is about representation that the union provides, was it you or B737 that was talking a presence of a union representative in Washington?

That was driver. And I’m sorry if you don’t believe it but of course the TWU has a more Political clout than AMFA would. But the IBT and IAM have even more than the TWU because it’s ALL a Numbers game to Politicians.

 

[B737 driver]

This is about representation that the union provides, was it you or B737 that was talking a presence of a union representative in Washington?

My point Buck is the argument that I have with Swamt, that the TWU and the big unions have some friends in Washington , because of their long history. Unlike AMFA we write a letter, or testified before congress, and they tell us AMFA we will work on it. We just don't have the political clout with 4000 members, that you guys do. As a side note, the company sent out an Email on the status of our contract. You can go to the SWA page and read it.

 

[MetalMover]

The way I read it you want the World on a string? You can’t fight everything all in one shot so you take one fight at a time. The first fight is HOT in the Public mind right now. American work leaving America. So that’s what all the AMT Unions AMFA, IAM, IBT and TWU should be laser focused on. AND they should be working together on it.

WeAAs, I do not want nor do I expect the world on a string. You are missing my point. The TWU is standing on its laurels fighting offshoring of maintenance. And let's be honest here...This was triggered off by the soon-to-be maintenance hangar in Brazil.
How many posts on this forum mentioned the subpar work being don't by third part vendors? Remember the TIMCO seat fiasco? Was that not done on US soil?
My point is what is the lesser of two evils? OFFSHORING of maintenance or OUTSOURCING of maintenance wherever it happens to be?
Reading your response to my post leads me to believe that it is more admirable to fight OFFSHORING of maintenance than it is merely OUTSOURCING of maintenance?
So my reaction to this bill is tepid at best.
I think the airline lobby trumps the union lobby.

 

[MetalMover]

I had to come back to this again Metal cause I do genuinely like a majority of the things you post even if I don’t agree with all of them.

Let’s pretend you had that Union of your choice and everything is exactly as it is right now. What do YOU want to do or think your Union should do for you but isn’t?

Should they not care about the “Long Game” as Peterson called it and give in and take what the Company is offering? Shrink down some of your ranks so you can make as much as possible?

What about Title 2? To Hell with them or not? Or let them and everyone else go it alone?

No condemnation. Just asking your opinion?

WeAAs, I think somehow, somewhere you got the impression I only care about my classification. I don't think I ever said that. I do feel, however, that what has been lost or taken from us will never be returned. Since deregulation, JOBWISE, the mechanics have lost the most. In my early days, there was NO outsourcing in any capacity. We have watched support shops disappear, overhaul work reduced, some mechanic functions turned over to other work groups, and a slew of other maintenance jobs vanish. We were repeatedly told that mechanics should only turn wrenches. But why doesn't that rule apply to all other work groups? Why can't they only do what their job title suggests?
Now having said this, what makes these negotiations different than all other times and more difficult to digest is that ALL title groups are being affected, not just aircraft maintenance.

And one last thing, I do not believe I have ever advocated layoffs so I may benefit. But the reality is this......In my tenure at AA being represented by the TWU, I have been through many a contract where the TWU has said vote YES to save jobs, or VOTE no and it will cost jobs only to have jobs disappear anyway.
So if at times I sound selfish it is only because of experience I have this skepticism.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAs, I do not want nor do I expect the world on a string. You are missing my point. The TWU is standing on its laurels fighting offshoring of maintenance. And let's be honest here...This was triggered off by the soon-to-be maintenance hangar in Brazil.
How many posts on this forum mentioned the subpar work being don't by third part vendors? Remember the TIMCO seat fiasco? Was that not done on US soil?
My point is what is the lesser of two evils? OFFSHORING of maintenance or OUTSOURCING of maintenance wherever it happens to be?
Reading your response to my post leads me to believe that it is more admirable to fight OFFSHORING of maintenance than it is merely OUTSOURCING of maintenance?
So my reaction to this bill is tepid at best.
I think the airline lobby trumps the union lobby.

You see. This is why I like talking to you unlike some of the other guys on here that all you get out of them is Hot Air.

I get where you’re coming from when I got up to 5 subcontractors possibly sniffing away on each inbound barely scratching $14 per hour and only because of the MIA Airport minimum.

We all got fights on our hands I guess. Yours being two fold Offshoring and Domestic MRO’s and mine seeing these Airport Minimum fights be won so at least any Airport Job is a decent paying one, Union or no Union.

 

[MetalMover]

You see. This is why I like talking to you unlike some of the other guys on here that all you get out of them is Hot Air.

I get where you’re coming from when I got up to 5 subcontractors possibly sniffing away on each inbound barely scratching $14 per hour and only because of the MIA Airport minimum.

We all got fights on our hands I guess. Yours being two fold Offshoring and Domestic MRO’s and mine seeing these Airport Minimum fights be won so at least any Airport Job is a decent paying one, Union or no Union.

Like I said, we are ALL affected this time. No one is safe.
I hope I am wrong, but I don't see the outsourcing trend in ANY department reversing anytime soon.
I do believe we need to preserve a minimum number of heads in each group.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAs, I think somehow, somewhere you got the impression I only care about my classification. I don't think I ever said that. I do feel, however, that what has been lost or taken from us will never be returned. Since deregulation, JOBWISE, the mechanics have lost the most. In my early days, there was NO outsourcing in any capacity. We have watched support shops disappear, overhaul work reduced, some mechanic functions turned over to other work groups, and a slew of other maintenance jobs vanish. We were repeatedly told that mechanics should only turn wrenches. But why doesn't that rule apply to all other work groups? Why can't they only do what their job title suggests?
Now having said this, what makes these negotiations different than all other times and more difficult to digest is that ALL title groups are being affected, not just aircraft maintenance.

And one last thing, I do not believe I have ever advocated layoffs so I may benefit. But the reality is this......In my tenure at AA being represented by the TWU, I have been through many a contract where the TWU has said vote YES to save jobs, or VOTE no and it will cost jobs only to have jobs disappear anyway.
So if at times I sound selfish it is only because of experience I have this skepticism.

I wish more in your group again could articulate like you do Brother. Maybe people wouldn’t think I’m such an Asshole if they could give me arguments that are hard to debate like you just did.

BTW I wish someone at the next Roadshow would ask Parker or Isom for a list of what exactly is any of our “Core Work”

Total BS term.

 

[MetalMover]

I wish more in your group again could articulate like you do Brother. Maybe people wouldn’t think I’m such an Asshole if they could give me arguments that are hard to debate like you just did.

BTW I wish someone at the next Roadshow would ask Parker or Isom for a list of what exactly is any of our “Core Work”

Total BS term.

I appreciate that WeAAs….Thank you.

What I would like to ask either one of them when they say they would sign UNITED's contract immediately is this....Does it include the pension restored?
Bridge to retirement medical and 7 weeks vacation?

 

[WeAAsles]

I appreciate that WeAAs….Thank you.

What I would like to ask either one of them when they say they would sign UNITED's contract immediately is this....Does it include the pension restored?
Bridge to retirement medical and 7 weeks vacation?

I don’t remember reading about any Pension restoration in the IBT deal?

 

[WeAAsles]

I don’t remember reading about any Pension restoration in the IBT deal?

Just read it. LOA # 26 Regarding the CARP Plan.