Aircraft maint issues

[1AA]

Actually no union at all would be better than the reamsters. I already had a bad experience under my belt with AMFA. However, I do not blame AMFA for all of the demise we suffered at NWA. The concept of AMFA is a sound one compared to anything offered by industrial unions to AMT's today. Anyone who has seen my posts knows my issue is with how we as A@P's are classified by the NMB as well as the rules of the RLA that have every airline employee by the throat. Either way I would have hoped by now that the AA guys would have seen the light. At least the AA dispatchers were smart enough to toss the twu to the street. How many times do you AA AMT's have to get kicked in the balls to to see the light?

If we had balls we would have dumped them a long time ago.

 

[swamt]

Sorry Swampy Teamsters would be better than their association, because it is one union. They can go with whoever will get them out of their association, regardless who it is, better than what they have now!

No way. teamsters suk period. Nothing but a bunch of crooks and thieves stealing all the dues moneys and local monies. Back in the day, yes teamsters were something. Now days they are nothing more than a machine that makes deals behind closed doors. teamsters would be worse than what the AA'ers have currently as the teamsters have "NO CLUE" all the concessions these guys have gave in past BK contracts. The TWU knows "ALL" the history to a "T" teamsters don't know crap.

 

[swamt]

For you guys that are following the industry here's the latest update from AMFA at SWA. AMFA has gone over the entire offer and sent it back to the co. with some corrections for their sign off. May not be long now for the RS's to start. Once it's all finalized I will try to provide the entire offer for you guys to see. Might be a good tool for your nego's to go over and compare for your JCBA.

AMT Contract Negotiations Update (May 5)

 

[B737 driver]

No way. teamsters suk period. Nothing but a bunch of crooks and thieves stealing all the dues moneys and local monies. Back in the day, yes teamsters were something. Now days they are nothing more than a machine that makes deals behind closed doors. teamsters would be worse than what the AA'ers have currently as the teamsters have "NO CLUE" all the concessions these guys have gave in past BK contracts. The TWU knows "ALL" the history to a "T" teamsters don't know crap.

That's for them to decide who they want.I see the American AMTs complain about the TWU and the IAM; hell you personally attack the TWU all the time on this forum, now you think they are great, is that which ever way the wind blows?' You should be a politician! Our own Union AMFA took us almost 6 years to get an agreement, and they are not really behind it, maybe we will drive it to year 7.

 

[bigjets]

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/air-france-klm-ceo-resigns-after-staff-rejects-pay-deal/

The French are messed up, they should have USA law where the company can impose the same contract for decades.

 

[bigjets]

No way. teamsters suk period. Nothing but a bunch of crooks and thieves stealing all the dues moneys and local monies. Back in the day, yes teamsters were something. Now days they are nothing more than a machine that makes deals behind closed doors. teamsters would be worse than what the AA'ers have currently as the teamsters have "NO CLUE" all the concessions these guys have gave in past BK contracts. The TWU knows "ALL" the history to a "T" teamsters don't know crap.

Holy cow this comment could be for the TWU and IAM. What's worse having two unions represent you without any input from the membership, or voting in the IBT? At least the IBT would be a union I had the oppurtunity to vote for.

Unfortunately AMFA balled up a strike at NWA, and was voted out at UAL, it's not like they have the best record (of course I would vote AMFA over any of these unions) I would prefer non union of course.

 

[bigjets]

No talks scheduled with AA, maybe we should wear red T-shirts again, that really seemed to do something last time....... 🙂

 

[AANOTOK]

No talks scheduled with AA, maybe we should wear red T-shirts again, that really seemed to do something last time....... 🙂

If that in fact is true and there still are no talks scheduled, the display of anger by Gary and the solidarity and want shown by Dale and Greg becomes a wasted embarrassment. Apparently they can stomp, raise that fist and voice all they want, but Doug just smirks and goes and has one on the house. Strength in numbers was the Association Moto...Get the F*** outta here.

 

[1AA]

No talks scheduled with AA, maybe we should wear red T-shirts again, that really seemed to do something last time....... 🙂

Summers approaching. Everyone needs to get ready to enjoy the summer. I think they'll pick things up again in September.

 

[Real tired]

We have the majority? Not in the association. It's obvious you don't care. You have made it clear before you're a Me Me guy. I had enough a long time ago but we have this cancer called the IAM that begged the NMB for the association. So how are we supposed to change? Suck up to Dougie? No thanks. You can have your broke pension, glorified regional airline and your lousy attitude.

You have totally misread me and misread the meaning for my post. I am not a IGM.

I, more than anybody want an end to this thing. I understand whats going on. I was directly involved with our AMFA drive many years ago when the IAM lumped the Fleet group into the same District (141) and local as us. That’s the reason for districts 141-M and now 142.

Things went down hill fast. We are two separate groups, with separate needs and need separate representation, just like the Pilots and Flight Attendants and Agents.

I personally sent in lots of AMFA cards during the failed American/USAirways drive.

The meaning for my post was that you ARE the majority now. In shear numbers. If you want a change, it will come from your group starting it.

This is the way the IAM has always done it. No information. No movement. Long drawn out negotiations with no gains. Bullet point lists, and tired old cliches like, “we’ll get them next time.” And a failing pension plan.

Get used to it. It’s the way it’s going to be, because now I find out the American groups, both Maintenance and Fleet, are as apathetic and scared of change as much as we are.

Sorry you misread me. Good luck to you guys. You’re going to need it. Just like we do.

 

[swamt]

That's for them to decide who they want.I see the American AMTs complain about the TWU and the IAM; hell you personally attack the TWU all the time on this forum, now you think they are great, is that which ever way the wind blows?' You should be a politician! Our own Union AMFA took us almost 6 years to get an agreement, and they are not really behind it, maybe we will drive it to year 7.

I know it's for them to decide, I never said it wasn't. Where did I say they were great driver? C'mon man. The TWU/IAM suk also, but they suk just a tad bit less than the teamsters crooked ways. Yes our NC took us out 6 years, but let's look and see what that 6 years was good for. They saved the scope, Hawaii, ETOPS, international outsourcing, positions within LOA 2... I could go on, but you get it. Now I would ask you, don't ya think it was a good thing that AMFA fought it out this long to save what was saved? I do, big time. If we still had the teamsters they would have done behind closed door deals with the company and we would have been raped in scope, ETOPS, LOA 2, international outsourcing, headcount, jobs, positions etc... Remember the teamsters were the ones that left AMFA with wide open outsourcing language so they could start Canada and El Salvador, when AMFA took over the "teamsters" contract they change that language to get our permission for international outsourcing.
It very well may go another year driver and if it does, then it does.

 

[swamt]

Holy cow this comment could be for the TWU and IAM. What's worse having two unions represent you without any input from the membership, or voting in the IBT? At least the IBT would be a union I had the oppurtunity to vote for.

Unfortunately AMFA balled up a strike at NWA, and was voted out at UAL, it's not like they have the best record (of course I would vote AMFA over any of these unions) I would prefer non union of course.

Not pushing for your current representation at all. I could care less if you guys go AMFA, just want to see you guys get some sort of a class and craft in there. AMFA might be easier as they are already up and running. The in house would take a little longer to get up and running but it would be well worth it in my eyes. Yes AMFA balled up the strike at NWA, they have admitted so. The UAL thing was all lies from the teamsters and they too never produced "ONE" promise they made the UAL members all the while running the card drive, not one. The teamsters scammed their way into them voting them in. I have friends over there and they are still thinking about replacing them after 7 years to get to a minimum passing vote on their contract and both sides were teamsters and it still took 7 years.

 

[bigjets]

At least when AA messes with us they give us a paycheck while they do it. We have to pay for the association to mess with us. One little factoid, our union dues are double the FAs dues, and they are preparing an election and getting ready to negotiate their next contract.

 

[B737 driver]

I know it's for them to decide, I never said it wasn't. Where did I say they were great driver? C'mon man. The TWU/IAM suk also, but they suk just a tad bit less than the teamsters crooked ways. Yes our NC took us out 6 years, but let's look and see what that 6 years was good for. They saved the scope, Hawaii, ETOPS, international outsourcing, positions within LOA 2... I could go on, but you get it. Now I would ask you, don't ya think it was a good thing that AMFA fought it out this long to save what was saved? I do, big time. If we still had the teamsters they would have done behind closed door deals with the company and we would have been raped in scope, ETOPS, LOA 2, international outsourcing, headcount, jobs, positions etc... Remember the teamsters were the ones that left AMFA with wide open outsourcing language so they could start Canada and El Salvador, when AMFA took over the "teamsters" contract they change that language to get our permission for international outsourcing.
It very well may go another year driver and if it does, then it does.

We have always allowed outsourcing in exchange for better benefits and smaller numbers compared to the major airlines. You just presented why we should take this deal. Being what has happened and we kept the major stuff we wanted, Scope. Is it worth a no vote for 3 to 4% ?We can argue about it. The reason I said SIX years is to let that sink into the American Airlines AMTs. They have alot to try to gain back. If they don't think their Association will deliver the goods, and they don't want another industrial union like the Teamsters. If they vote AMFA in, and that's a big if. Will they have the emotional fortitude to have AMFA fight up to SIX years to get an industry leading contract against Parker and company. Or will the majority of them say forget it, and maintain the status quo. Only they know the answer to that question.

 

[swamt]

We have always allowed outsourcing in exchange for better benefits and smaller numbers compared to the major airlines. You just presented why we should take this deal. Being what has happened and we kept the major stuff we wanted, Scope. Is it worth a no vote for 3 to 4% ?We can argue about it. The reason I said SIX years is to let that sink into the American Airlines AMTs. They have alot to try to gain back. If they don't think their Association will deliver the goods, and they don't want another industrial union like the Teamsters. If they vote AMFA in, and that's a big if. Will they have the emotional fortitude to have AMFA fight up to SIX years to get an industry leading contract against Parker and company. Or will the majority of them say forget it, and maintain the status quo. Only they know the answer to that question.

It appears that the AA'ers are in for the long haul. Some are saying sec 6 is coming, even one of the two nego on the fleet forum have stated sec 6 is where they see it going.
I will not make my decision until after I have all the facts, and no, I am not saying I'm a yes vote just because of scope. And although it was at the top it wasn't the number 1. After talking with some of our union officers there were, in my opinion, about 3 number ones, I mean I have several #1's that all tie for the #1 spot in my mind.
It seems the AA guys are sitting idle for a bit with no dates set, kinda like we did for 6 months and then again for 3 months. It really does look like AA management is playing the exact same playbook in nego's as SWA did with us. There are way too similar things being done over there...