Aircraft maint issues

[swamt]

After speaking personally to my informant. I stand by the rumor.
People on here do not know how the IAM and TWU negotiate.
There is the dog and pony show that Peterson and the rest of the committee participate and then the real behind closed door negotiations. Which Peterson may now be part of it since joining the International staff. These are all off the record meetings where they come to agree on certain issues. Then they slowly bring the rest of the negotiation team on board.
Company gets the scope they want by offering big bucks to those leaving.

"Off the record meetings"? Is that the same as "behind closed door deals" done in secret and away from the NC. I will say one thing. The pass to the company was all groups in the asso. dealing with scope. CB has stated that scope is still wide open (at least for the fleet boys) and I think he also said the company still has to counter which tells me they are still not done with scope. Now, with that said maybe, just maybe the mechanics scope was discussed in "behind closed" or rather, excuse me, "off the record meetings" and all of a sudden they have a done deal for the mechs? I don't think so, I think the mechanics scope discussions will go on for some time. Remember, the company is wanting more outsourcing, more jobs, more positions, therefore I do not see the mechanics being done, but we will see in future updates.
Even the complete useless update from the asso. said NOTHING about scope being done or even close to being done for anyone.

 

[NYer]

Did you really expect something else?

No. I've known and understood the language and the process from the very beginning. As a matter of fact, I understood the language even when there were debates on these forums where people argued, years earlier, the Match money was ours even before the agreement was made in the BK CBA.

As we can see from the two arbitration decisions, those that argued that point were incorrect in their interpretation of the Pre-Funding Trust language.

 

[NYer]

"Off the record meetings"? Is that the same as "behind closed door deals" done in secret and away from the NC. I will say one thing. The pass to the company was all groups in the asso. dealing with scope. CB has stated that scope is still wide open (at least for the fleet boys) and I think he also said the company still has to counter which tells me they are still not done with scope. Now, with that said maybe, just maybe the mechanics scope was discussed in "behind closed" or rather, excuse me, "off the record meetings" and all of a sudden they have a done deal for the mechs? I don't think so, I think the mechanics scope discussions will go on for some time. Remember, the company is wanting more outsourcing, more jobs, more positions, therefore I do not see the mechanics being done, but we will see in future updates.
Even the complete useless update from the asso. said NOTHING about scope being done or even close to being done for anyone.

I believe what ATD is trying to convey is that there may be a structure of a deal with the Executive Committee which the Negotiating Committee may not know about, at least the few Presidents left on the NC. Keep in mind, of the 11 representatives on each Committee (on the TWU side) there are only 4 Presidents left. Everyone else is International staff.

Not saying ATD is correct, but his assessment is feasible.

 

[Buck]

After speaking personally to my informant. I stand by the rumor.
People on here do not know how the IAM and TWU negotiate.
There is the dog and pony show that Peterson and the rest of the committee participate and then the real behind closed door negotiations. Which Peterson may now be part of it since joining the International staff. These are all off the record meetings where they come to agree on certain issues. Then they slowly bring the rest of the negotiation team on board.
Company gets the scope they want by offering big bucks to those leaving.

Hey it's 1983 all over again. I should explain a bit. I am referencing the B-Scale that made it's way to the A&P's Mechanics at American Airlines. Contractually it was a tit for tat. I believe the A-Scalers got to keep maybe retiree medical in exchange for the Half Wages ??

 

[swamt]

I believe what ATD is trying to convey is that there may be a structure of a deal with the Executive Committee which the Negotiating Committee may not know about, at least the few Presidents left on the NC. Keep in mind, of the 11 representatives on each Committee (on the TWU side) there are only 4 Presidents left. Everyone else is International staff.

Not saying ATD is correct, but his assessment is feasible.

Please educate me on how this works. It seems odd to me that the Executive Committee knows before the Negotiating Committee does, in fact it looks very suspicious that others know more than the folks at the negotiating table negotiating the contract. I can only say that in our case the NC has full authority given by the membership, the Executive Officers at the National level are well, well informed but they make no decisions what-so-ever at the table that is fully controlled and executed by the NC. One Committee knowing things before the NC being informed or brought up to date is complete backwards in my opinion. The NC should be negotiating for the membership wants, NOT what the Executive Committee wants or has negotiated in "off the record" negotiations and then brought to the table afterwards. That is not in the best interest of the membership, it seems to be more in line with the what the Executive Committee's interest or maybe the International's interest.
I really hope it is not this way NY'er, if it is you guys are in need of some great help from somewhere.

 

[BeechDriver]

Hey it's 1983 all over again. I should explain a bit. I am referencing the B-Scale that made it's way to the A&P's Mechanics at American Airlines. Contractually it was a tit for tat. I believe the A-Scalers got to keep maybe retiree medical in exchange for the Half Wages ??

I believe the hand full of silver was the "Five, Five, and One". Five years added to age, five years added to seniority, and one year wages in a lump sum payment. That was the payoff for the "yes" votes to pass the contract that sold the remaining A scales and all B scalers down the river. There are currently many on the payroll waiting around for an opportunity to do the same. Get a hand full of silver to sell the rest of us out in exchange for a yes vote.

I tell them that this is not a consessionary contract and they are wasting time waiting for a retirement package. If there is a retirement package that means that concessions have been made that will negatively affect those of us that remain.

Keep this in mind when choosing your local leaders.

 

[NYer]

Please educate me on how this works. It seems odd to me that the Executive Committee knows before the Negotiating Committee does, in fact it looks very suspicious that others know more than the folks at the negotiating table negotiating the contract. I can only say that in our case the NC has full authority given by the membership, the Executive Officers at the National level are well, well informed but they make no decisions what-so-ever at the table that is fully controlled and executed by the NC. One Committee knowing things before the NC being informed or brought up to date is complete backwards in my opinion. The NC should be negotiating for the membership wants, NOT what the Executive Committee wants or has negotiated in "off the record" negotiations and then brought to the table afterwards. That is not in the best interest of the membership, it seems to be more in line with the what the Executive Committee's interest or maybe the International's interest.
I really hope it is not this way NY'er, if it is you guys are in need of some great help from somewhere.

In December of 2016, we were advised the top TWU hierarchy was going to get involved in the negotiations in an attempt to "expedite" the proceedings. The structure was supposed to have the Executive Committee negotiate or come to terms on items to then have the Negotiating Committee sign off on the agreement and work on the language. At that time there was little overlap from the Executive Committee to the Negotiating Committee. Today, those lines are a bit blurred since the majority of the EC and NC are in fact, International staff or Officers. (on the TWU side)

 

[737823]

NYer:
Why didn’t Lombardo back out of the Association and force a run-off with the IAM? Wasn’t the alliance agreed upon by Jim Little at urging of Trumka given the history with USAIR/America West?

The TWU acted honorably in 2006 and ultimately stepped aside why can’t the IAM do the same here?

Josh

 

[NYer]

NYer:
Why didn’t Lombardo back out of the Association and force a run-off with the IAM? Wasn’t the alliance agreed upon by Jim Little at urging of Trumka given the history with USAIR/America West?

The TWU acted honorably in 2006 and ultimately stepped aside why can’t the IAM do the same here?

Josh

The agreement for the Association was binding at the time Lombardo took over, but let's not forget he was also the VP at the time the agreement was made.

From my understanding, the TWU withdrew because the Members seemed to be moving towards voting for "no union," so they decided to withdraw rather than have them lose any representation. The situation with LAA and LUS is much different. There was full expectation there would be a vote, but the NMB certified the Association without one.

 

[Matt1200]

I think for some members to take early out money of so called 1 year pay would not be enough. They are making over 100,000 a year. To just show up, the majority of these senior guys are barely turning wrenches. Why not stay until 65 and milk out as much money as possible! IMO

 

[AA89]

It’s not always that simple. When AFW and later TAESL were closed, alot of guys took less than a years pay to retire. Mostly because they didn’t want to move or commute. Job loss is expected to be in the company offer and plenty of guys will be in the same situation. Not to mention the guys sick of commuting now.

 

[Real tired]

I would say get what is in your pension, transferred to a 401k, and then contribute and get the American match, then you control your money.

Nice pipe dream, but the IAM pension doesn't work that way.

THEY have control of the money you invest until you sever your ties and retire and begin receiving your check.

Then THEY have control of your life because, in order to get your check, you can never work in aviation again, nor any IAM shop, and if you do work into your retirement, you have to report to THEM where you work, then THEY determine whether it is acceptable to receive your check.

Then finally once you think you got control of your money, THEY can cut the amount of your check when THEY feel the fund isn't performing as well as expected. As THEY did to the Fleet Service already.

Vote NO on any contract that includes the IAMNPF without a choice of joining or not.

 

[Real tired]

I think for some members to take early out money of so called 1 year pay would not be enough. They are making over 100,000 a year. To just show up, the majority of these senior guys are barely turning wrenches. Why not stay until 65 and milk out as much money as possible! IMO

Watch what you say, because in this case a nice healthy buyout is good thing.

Here in PIT, we are the senior of the senior, and most of us are in the top 10% of the combined list.

In my case, I started young at Allegheny, and I am not near retirement age yet. So if there is a buyout, I will not commute. I'll take the buyout, the pension and work in the fracking industry or something.

If there's no buyout, then I'm coming for you or anybody junior to me. And I want your shift, your days off, your shop, and your locker.

In some cases, with lots of senior people hanging out, buyouts are a good thing.

 

[swamt]

In December of 2016, we were advised the top TWU hierarchy was going to get involved in the negotiations in an attempt to "expedite" the proceedings. The structure was supposed to have the Executive Committee negotiate or come to terms on items to then have the Negotiating Committee sign off on the agreement and work on the language. At that time there was little overlap from the Executive Committee to the Negotiating Committee. Today, those lines are a bit blurred since the majority of the EC and NC are in fact, International staff or Officers. (on the TWU side)

So is this method working? In other words, are nego's being expedited by the involvement of this EC getting involved?? After reading the last update, I believe they said they T/A'd on 2 articles after a full week of nego's. The two articles were ones that were more than likely not even changed. So "expedite" nego's I just don't see. Do you see this EC getting involved a good thing or bad???

The agreement for the Association was binding at the time Lombardo took over, but let's not forget he was also the VP at the time the agreement was made.

From my understanding, the TWU withdrew because the Members seemed to be moving towards voting for "no union," so they decided to withdraw rather than have them lose any representation. The situation with LAA and LUS is much different. There was full expectation there would be a vote, but the NMB certified the Association without one.

For this reason alone they should have been removed. That was a scam tactic from the very beginning and they were successful in sucker punching the membership by sneaking it thru the NMB.

Nice pipe dream, but the IAM pension doesn't work that way.

THEY have control of the money you invest until you sever your ties and retire and begin receiving your check.

Then THEY have control of your life because, in order to get your check, you can never work in aviation again, nor any IAM shop, and if you do work into your retirement, you have to report to THEM where you work, then THEY determine whether it is acceptable to receive your check.

Then finally once you think you got control of your money, THEY can cut the amount of your check when THEY feel the fund isn't performing as well as expected. As THEY did to the Fleet Service already.

Vote NO on any contract that includes the IAMNPF without a choice of joining or not.

Also vote NO if any EO or buyout is offered with the same vote as a new contract vote. Those should be two seperate items to vote on. If company combines them they are trying to "buy" something.

 

[NYer]

So is this method working? In other words, are nego's being expedited by the involvement of this EC getting involved?? After reading the last update, I believe they said they T/A'd on 2 articles after a full week of nego's. The two articles were ones that were more than likely not even changed. So "expedite" nego's I just don't see. Do you see this EC getting involved a good thing or bad???

Hard to say since there can't be any comparison as what would have happened if they didn't get involved. It was unfortunate they used the terminology of "expedited" being its been anything but.