Aircraft maint issues

Tom Talbert 1888 said:
How many overhauls on YOUR OWN Fleet is done in-house?

See lots of Delta planes all over the Far East even for just interior mods.

I see you conviently didn’t answer the outsourcing vs other airlines planes being worked in DL hangars.
Click to expand...
All of our overhauls on airframes are sent to vendors. How many engines did you guys do last year?
See I can do it too.

As for cabin mods, we have been doing a few lines of them in-house also. MSP and ATL both have been doing them. I think they are mostly done, the last of it will be the second phase of the A320 mods which one will be done in MSP and one done by a vendor, for the most part.

I did answer you. We are doing about 2-3% less in-house work than American, about 10% more than United and about 15% more than US air did.
That is in-house Delta work.
It is basically impossible to add in the MRO work to that. Delta doesn't really report those numbers separately.
WeAAsles said:
Uh Dawg I want Parker and Company to bring in MRO OAL work. Very much so absolutely.

But the TWU and IAM don’t run the Airline. And I suspect neither do you at Delta.

You sound like a Corporate cheerleader. Is that you World Traveler?
Click to expand...
No you want them to do OAL work as long as it fits in with your unions "as many dues payers as possible" motive. The issues is you can't have it both ways.

I'm not a corporate cheerleader, I'm just smart enough to do basic math......
 
topDawg said:
All of our overhauls on airframes are sent to vendors. How many engines did you guys do last year?
See I can do it too.

As for cabin mods, we have been doing a few lines of them in-house also. MSP and ATL both have been doing them. I think they are mostly done, the last of it will be the second phase of the A320 mods which one will be done in MSP and one done by a vendor, for the most part.

I did answer you. We are doing about 2-3% less in-house work than American, about 10% more than United and about 15% more than US air did.
That is in-house Delta work.
It is basically impossible to add in the MRO work to that. Delta doesn't really report those numbers separately.

No you want them to do OAL work as long as it fits in with your unions "as many dues payers as possible" motive. The issues is you can't have it both ways.

I'm not a corporate cheerleader, I'm just smart enough to do basic math......
Click to expand...
Oh look more work for Delta engine shop, just curious , do you do all of your engines, including the MD90 & 717, or is that farmed out ?
 
topDawg said:
All of our overhauls on airframes are sent to vendors. How many engines did you guys do last year?
See I can do it too.

As for cabin mods, we have been doing a few lines of them in-house also. MSP and ATL both have been doing them. I think they are mostly done, the last of it will be the second phase of the A320 mods which one will be done in MSP and one done by a vendor, for the most part.

I did answer you. We are doing about 2-3% less in-house work than American, about 10% more than United and about 15% more than US air did.
That is in-house Delta work.
It is basically impossible to add in the MRO work to that. Delta doesn't really report those numbers separately.

No you want them to do OAL work as long as it fits in with your unions "as many dues payers as possible" motive. The issues is you can't have it both ways.

I'm not a corporate cheerleader, I'm just smart enough to do basic math......
Click to expand...


I don’t give a rats ass how many dues payers my Union has. Go sell the BS tag line somewhere else.

Stop trying to pigeonhole me with your garbage. It’s insulting cause I consider you to be way smarter than that and you ARE beginning to remind me of World Traveler now very much.
 
WeAAsles said:
Nice. Sweet deal. Now maybe the Association can put pressure on Parker to become a World Class MRO as well?

I’m sure TUL can compete against anyone in the World.

But ultimately we can’t control their Business Plan. We can only argue that it would be economically idiotic not to adopt one.
Click to expand...
TULE can compete and should. The sheer size and capability and reputation of that facility should be put to way better use.
 
MetalMover said:
TULE can compete and should. The sheer size and capability and reputation of that facility should be put to way better use.
Click to expand...

I remember when they were competing for OAL work and I think they had reached their goal of 500 Mil per year. And the old AA purposely screwed it up?
 
B737 driver said:
Oh look more work for Delta engine shop, just curious , do you do all of your engines, including the MD90 & 717, or is that farmed out ?
Click to expand...
JT8D-219(M88), PW2000s(757), PW4000-94s(747/767), CFM56-5B(A32X), CFM56-7B(737), CF6-80A(767), CF6-80C2(767), BR715s(717) are all done in-house. Plus most of the CF34-3s and CF34-8s at the regional carriers operating for Delta. Plus we already have deals for the the Trent 1000(787), Trent 7000(A330NEO), Trent XWB(A350) and todays news of the GTF.

The CFM56-5A(A320)*, GE90(777), Trent 800(777), PW1000-100(A330CEO)*, V2500 (M90) and CF6-80E1(A330CEO) motors are done by vendors. We don't currently have a test cell capable of doing the GE90, T800, PW/CF6 A330 motors. The new cell (largest in the world) opens in the next few years and we will be able to run any motor currently in operation or development. The new cell and new technology coming in with the Roll Royce and Pratt partnerships are going to open more doors in the MRO world hopefully.
The V2500, from what I have heard, we wanted to do in-house once we grew the MD90 fleet but IAE wouldn't give us the license for it. As a part of that now the V2500-D5 motor on the MD90 list of vendors has gone down to basically one and costs have skyrocketed. Probably going to park the MD90s early because of it.
Also the CFM56-5A and the PW4168 engines have contracts Northwest signed that run till 2020. No idea if they will try to bring them in house once those end or not. The PW4168 can use the existing PW4000-94 shop and CFM56-5A can use the existing CFM56 shop. Its just a matter of Pratt/CFM giving us the ability to do the work in-house and if we have the space. Engine shop is a bit tight right now.
The Cf6-80E1, GE didn't want to give us a license and we weren't going to battle for it over 20 motors.

The GE90 and Trent 800 don't have the volume in the fleet to do. Its only 20 and 16 motors.

WeAAsles said:
I don’t give a rats ass how many dues payers my Union has. Go sell the BS tag line somewhere else.

Stop trying to pigeonhole me with your garbage. It’s insulting cause I consider you to be way smarter than that and you ARE beginning to remind me of World Traveler now very much.
Click to expand...
You either don't know me or don't know WT.

But if not agreeing that the highest cost labor option is 100% right 100% of the time and that all non-union work is the same makes me WT, then I am WT. *shrug*
MetalMover said:
TULE can compete and should. The sheer size and capability and reputation of that facility should be put to way better use.
Click to expand...

Management and your union are the problem and have always been the problem. Everyone knows the product Tulsa puts out.
You guys could make a killing on the GEnX and the CFM LEAP, if your management wanted. (and they could get GE to make a deal)
WeAAsles said:
I remember when they were competing for OAL work and I think they had reached their goal of 500 Mil per year. And the old AA purposely screwed it up?
Click to expand...
easier to justify outsourcing when the thing you want to outsource doesn't bring a positive to the bottom line.

American had quite a few contracts, specifically on the 737, 767 and MD80s. Also the TASEL Joint venture doing a huge amount of RB211 and Trent 800 work. I remember Allegiant basically being told by American management "we don't want you". Allegiant ended up taking that work to AAR.

Then Tom Horton happened. Doug Parker is cut from the same cloth.

A lot of people in the MRO circles can't believe just how stupid American has been over the last 10 years or so regarding maintenance. Even when they shocked the world by ordering the GE motor on the 787, everyone was fairly sure that just meant Tulsa would be doing it(vs continuing TAESL). I still can't believe American hasn't ended up doing the GEnX and GE90 in house.
 
topDawg said:
JT8D-219(M88), PW2000s(757), PW4000-94s(747/767), CFM56-5B(A32X), CFM56-7B(737), CF6-80A(767), CF6-80C2(767), BR715s(717) are all done in-house. Plus most of the CF34-3s and CF34-8s at the regional carriers operating for Delta. Plus we already have deals for the the Trent 1000(787), Trent 7000(A330NEO), Trent XWB(A350) and todays news of the GTF.

The CFM56-5A(A320)*, GE90(777), Trent 800(777), PW1000-100(A330CEO)*, V2500 (M90) and CF6-80E1(A330CEO) motors are done by vendors. We don't currently have a test cell capable of doing the GE90, T800, PW/CF6 A330 motors. The new cell (largest in the world) opens in the next few years and we will be able to run any motor currently in operation or development. The new cell and new technology coming in with the Roll Royce and Pratt partnerships are going to open more doors in the MRO world hopefully.
The V2500, from what I have heard, we wanted to do in-house once we grew the MD90 fleet but IAE wouldn't give us the license for it. As a part of that now the V2500-D5 motor on the MD90 list of vendors has gone down to basically one and costs have skyrocketed. Probably going to park the MD90s early because of it.
Also the CFM56-5A and the PW4168 engines have contracts Northwest signed that run till 2020. No idea if they will try to bring them in house once those end or not. The PW4168 can use the existing PW4000-94 shop and CFM56-5A can use the existing CFM56 shop. Its just a matter of Pratt/CFM giving us the ability to do the work in-house and if we have the space. Engine shop is a bit tight right now.
The Cf6-80E1, GE didn't want to give us a license and we weren't going to battle for it over 20 motors.

The GE90 and Trent 800 don't have the volume in the fleet to do. Its only 20 and 16 motors.


You either don't know me or don't know WT.

But if not agreeing that the highest cost labor option is 100% right 100% of the time and that all non-union work is the same makes me WT, then I am WT. *shrug*


Management and your union are the problem and have always been the problem. Everyone knows the product Tulsa puts out.
You guys could make a killing on the GEnX and the CFM LEAP, if your management wanted. (and they could get GE to make a deal)

easier to justify outsourcing when the thing you want to outsource doesn't bring a positive to the bottom line.

American had quite a few contracts, specifically on the 737, 767 and MD80s. Also the TASEL Joint venture doing a huge amount of RB211 and Trent 800 work. I remember Allegiant basically being told by American management "we don't want you". Allegiant ended up taking that work to AAR.

Then Tom Horton happened. Doug Parker is cut from the same cloth.

A lot of people in the MRO circles can't believe just how stupid American has been over the last 10 years or so regarding maintenance. Even when they shocked the world by ordering the GE motor on the 787, everyone was fairly sure that just meant Tulsa would be doing it(vs continuing TAESL). I still can't believe American hasn't ended up doing the GEnX and GE90 in house.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info, if you guys could beat G.E. in price you might be able to get SWA engines, but we are power by hour, so who knows. You guys are very profitable to Delta's bottom line. I have a friend of mine that is in engineering over at Delta.
 
topDawg said:
JT8D-219(M88), PW2000s(757), PW4000-94s(747/767), CFM56-5B(A32X), CFM56-7B(737), CF6-80A(767), CF6-80C2(767), BR715s(717) are all done in-house. Plus most of the CF34-3s and CF34-8s at the regional carriers operating for Delta. Plus we already have deals for the the Trent 1000(787), Trent 7000(A330NEO), Trent XWB(A350) and todays news of the GTF.

The CFM56-5A(A320)*, GE90(777), Trent 800(777), PW1000-100(A330CEO)*, V2500 (M90) and CF6-80E1(A330CEO) motors are done by vendors. We don't currently have a test cell capable of doing the GE90, T800, PW/CF6 A330 motors. The new cell (largest in the world) opens in the next few years and we will be able to run any motor currently in operation or development. The new cell and new technology coming in with the Roll Royce and Pratt partnerships are going to open more doors in the MRO world hopefully.
The V2500, from what I have heard, we wanted to do in-house once we grew the MD90 fleet but IAE wouldn't give us the license for it. As a part of that now the V2500-D5 motor on the MD90 list of vendors has gone down to basically one and costs have skyrocketed. Probably going to park the MD90s early because of it.
Also the CFM56-5A and the PW4168 engines have contracts Northwest signed that run till 2020. No idea if they will try to bring them in house once those end or not. The PW4168 can use the existing PW4000-94 shop and CFM56-5A can use the existing CFM56 shop. Its just a matter of Pratt/CFM giving us the ability to do the work in-house and if we have the space. Engine shop is a bit tight right now.
The Cf6-80E1, GE didn't want to give us a license and we weren't going to battle for it over 20 motors.

The GE90 and Trent 800 don't have the volume in the fleet to do. Its only 20 and 16 motors.


You either don't know me or don't know WT.

But if not agreeing that the highest cost labor option is 100% right 100% of the time and that all non-union work is the same makes me WT, then I am WT. *shrug*


Management and your union are the problem and have always been the problem. Everyone knows the product Tulsa puts out.
You guys could make a killing on the GEnX and the CFM LEAP, if your management wanted. (and they could get GE to make a deal)

easier to justify outsourcing when the thing you want to outsource doesn't bring a positive to the bottom line.

American had quite a few contracts, specifically on the 737, 767 and MD80s. Also the TASEL Joint venture doing a huge amount of RB211 and Trent 800 work. I remember Allegiant basically being told by American management "we don't want you". Allegiant ended up taking that work to AAR.

Then Tom Horton happened. Doug Parker is cut from the same cloth.

A lot of people in the MRO circles can't believe just how stupid American has been over the last 10 years or so regarding maintenance. Even when they shocked the world by ordering the GE motor on the 787, everyone was fairly sure that just meant Tulsa would be doing it(vs continuing TAESL). I still can't believe American hasn't ended up doing the GEnX and GE90 in house.
Click to expand...


To your first response. Again I never said that. You’re making up assumptions about me. Your mind is already made up. And I remember WT quite well.

I am one of those “Buy American” whenever at all possible guys. My Living Room Furniture was made in N Carolina.

But Brazilian Leather for shoes is extraordinary. Very soft.
 
B737 driver said:
Thanks for the info, if you guys could beat G.E. in price you might be able to get SWA engines, but we are power by hour, so who knows. You guys are very profitable to Delta's bottom line. I have a friend of mine that is in engineering over at Delta.
Click to expand...
Wont happen. Because the motors are power buy the hour it is up to GE who does them. GE will do them or they will go to a GE approved maintenance center.

That is what the deal with Pratt and Rolls are for us. They make us a part of those OEM's maintenance network. So say Southwest orders something with Trent 1000's on it and signs a TotalCare agreement for maintenance. That would mean that Rolls will send the engine to one of its AMCs. Since TechOps is the closest (thus the cheapest more than likely) we would get the work.
but as far as all the contracts and such go, its all with Rolls Royce.

GE has been very very unwilling to make a deal with Delta as of late. The last two major orders, the A330/A550 and this order, have really come down to what the engine OEM was willing to offer. At some point GE is going to wise up or lose one of its biggest and long time customers. (and one of the most respected CFM shops in the world)
WeAAsles said:
To your first response. Again I never said that. You’re making up assumptions about me. Your mind is already made up. And I remember WT quite well.

I am one of those “Buy American” whenever at all possible guys. My Living Room Furniture was made in N Carolina.

But Brazilian Leather for shoes is extraordinary. Very soft.
Click to expand...
I buy American as well, most of the time.

but I am also not going to go without a TV because I can't get one made in the US......
 
Tom Talbert 1888 said:
What don’t you get?

In my 28 years EVERY single contract vote was one day for 12 hours.
Click to expand...

I get it completely. I brought it up and you denied that it happened and called me a liar. You put a link to an article and proved yourself to be a liar. We usually get 30 days to vote. Lets face it the iam had a vote on Friday counted the votes on Saturday and the company was going to announce the quarterly profits on the next Wednesday. I'm sure that was just a coincidence since they new it was going to be a large amount of profits for the company and that would probably change the vote and the contract would be shot down.
 
Tom Talbert 1888 said:
DAWG,

Really?

AMFA has the highest amount of outsourcing at WN and AS farms out all heavy.

WN has under 3,000 mechanics for over 700 planes.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/amp/Alaska-Air-shuts-Oakland-base-340-maintenance-2726556.php

Great fight at AS, not.

AMFA has been at WN for around 15 years and only brought in one line in exchange for foreign outsourcing.

And I’m getting the numbers from flight safety committee
Click to expand...

Wease this is the lies, half truths and spins that I was talking about. USAir's o/sing is very close to swa. Within a few percentage points. Saying they only brought in 1 line of maintance. To keep harping on the amount of mechanics per a/c shows his stupidity. You can't compare apples and oranges. He has been told numerous times that you cannot compare an airline that has widebody a/c to one that doesn't. Also you can't compare an airline that has etops with one that doesn't. 700 I mean tom is nothing more than a common liar.
 
767 mechanic said:
Wease this is the lies, half truths and spins that I was talking about. USAir's o/sing is very close to swa. Within a few percentage points. Saying they only brought in 1 line of maintance. To keep harping on the amount of mechanics per a/c shows his stupidity. You can't compare apples and oranges. He has been told numerous times that you cannot compare an airline that has widebody a/c to one that doesn't. Also you can't compare an airline that has etops with one that doesn't. 700 I mean tom is nothing more than a common liar.
Click to expand...


I don’t see where he’s lying. Giving a half truth maybe but so what. It’s absolutely no different then the other posters on here who give half truths and never want to comment that SWA has never not turned a profit in their entire existence.

Can’t read a book and know the story well if lots of the pages are torn out.

Some posters here seem to throw out the entire book and make up the story as they go along.
 
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