Aircraft maint issues

They could have done that already.

I say the Scope will be blended from both contracts.

I say no line farmout and the outsourcing limits will be the same or less for base and shops than currently have.

When our LUS CBA was abrogated is how they farmed out the shops and there were no limits on base.

In the 2008 JCBA we obtained a protected headcount for base, certain line stations were protected and the number of line stations was also protected.

You do know the company offered us your contract?

Were told to f—k off.
Well a major airline that does overhauls, you would want more than 4 C check lines, but if the fighting IAM is so smart, why didn't they want our overtime rules, and trades, an the other good stuff. Sounds like you need some new negotiating people 1880's Tom, how about it?
 
Well a major airline that does overhauls, you would want more than 4 C check lines, but if the fighting IAM is so smart, why didn't they want our overtime rules, and trades, an the other good stuff. Sounds like you need some new negotiating people 1880's Tom, how about it?
Offer was take the whole contract, lock, stock and barrel.

Which would have caused massive layoffs and closures.

The whole NC is against outsourcing and is trying to bring more work in-house. Our NC is just fine, seems to me yours needs to be replaced.

Our committee has been in negotiations and the end is in sight in two years. Your on five and on ice.

And combining two CBAs is way harder than just Section 6.
 
You're not sure what role good ole Jimmy Little played?
Here's an old post I found - should help refresh:


RV4Veteran
Joined:
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#2RV4, Apr 24, 2003
As the TWU Leadership has now deprived the union members of a voice and legitimate vote in their future, Jim Little, in the quote below appears to claim he has single handedly saved us from ourselves.

http://www.dallasnews.com/latestnews/stori....12f4a4b23.html



Jim Little, head of the air transport division of the Transport Workers Union, wouldn't comment on Mr. Carty's departure but said he accepted the new deal because bankruptcy would be worse.

Based on these considerations and on the commitments made yesterday, our union will honor last week's vote in order to protect our members, he said. We must do everything in our power to limit exposure of our contracts and our members in bankruptcy proceedings.

What kind of union would cave to a demand that the members be deprived of a vote?

The Chapter 11 filing will likely happen anyway and that would have bought the company and the union members the time needed to legitimize this process and the agreement.

Now, we will have lawsuits, and live under a legitimate agreement for many years.

The TWU International President Sonny Hall has made many comments about the election for the President of the United States of America.

One thing is for sure. This contract ratification vote did not have any hanging or pregnant chads, but when the ATD Director has made public statements comfirming this ratification vote was not credible and then denies the members the guaranteed right to a voice in the ratification process, I think removal of the dictator controlled union is automatic.

As far as your assertion in not including UPS and Fed Ex, are they not competing for the same new talent? I always tell any young A&P Mechanics to consider UPS & Fed Ex, as well as the best paying airlines. Nobody, really wants to settle for the lower paying, small airlines. If they do, it's usually because they have ties to an area. AA just lost 5 new hire AMTs in Chicago - only days after they finished the AA B-737 Gen Fam - to SWA. Kinda hard to attract new talent when they look at our current benefits. Most are able to get the info online.
Jim little is a snake pos he gave away the store to a company who under Crandall left AA IN great financial shape. Carty chose to spend that on twa Canadian pacific who merged with air Canada and he wasted money left and right. Little only care was union dues. He should if took pay cut allso. In Dallas right after the cuts little came back from San Juan on first class positive space. We found what gate he came into. Us mechanics and fleet service lined both sides of the jet bridge . We all let him have it. Instead of acting like a leader he called us all immature . At least the members showed him what we felt . He did not care he was getting his dues money and 200000 plus a year salary . And there is no difference if a airplane flys cargo are people they all need maintenance. Weas a 777 for aa requires the same maintenance as a fedex 777 dose. They both need to be airworthy to fly. But you being such a a/c maintenance hater your hate gets in the way of your brain. Your nothing but a twu cheerleading shill how much dose the twu pay you to spread your lies and hate
 
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You're not sure what role good ole Jimmy Little played?
Here's an old post I found - should help refresh:


RV4Veteran
Joined:
Aug 20, 2002
Messages:
1,885
Likes Received:
80
#2RV4, Apr 24, 2003
As the TWU Leadership has now deprived the union members of a voice and legitimate vote in their future, Jim Little, in the quote below appears to claim he has single handedly saved us from ourselves.

http://www.dallasnews.com/latestnews/stori....12f4a4b23.html



Jim Little, head of the air transport division of the Transport Workers Union, wouldn't comment on Mr. Carty's departure but said he accepted the new deal because bankruptcy would be worse.

Based on these considerations and on the commitments made yesterday, our union will honor last week's vote in order to protect our members, he said. We must do everything in our power to limit exposure of our contracts and our members in bankruptcy proceedings.

What kind of union would cave to a demand that the members be deprived of a vote?

The Chapter 11 filing will likely happen anyway and that would have bought the company and the union members the time needed to legitimize this process and the agreement.

Now, we will have lawsuits, and live under a legitimate agreement for many years.

The TWU International President Sonny Hall has made many comments about the election for the President of the United States of America.

One thing is for sure. This contract ratification vote did not have any hanging or pregnant chads, but when the ATD Director has made public statements comfirming this ratification vote was not credible and then denies the members the guaranteed right to a voice in the ratification process, I think removal of the dictator controlled union is automatic.

As far as your assertion in not including UPS and Fed Ex, are they not competing for the same new talent? I always tell any young A&P Mechanics to consider UPS & Fed Ex, as well as the best paying airlines. Nobody, really wants to settle for the lower paying, small airlines. If they do, it's usually because they have ties to an area. AA just lost 5 new hire AMTs in Chicago - only days after they finished the AA B-737 Gen Fam - to SWA. Kinda hard to attract new talent when they look at our current benefits. Most are able to get the info online.


Vortilon thanks for the response. Didn’t really pay too much attention to knowing it all back then and it was much harder to get info. I only had 6 years on 9/11 and not yet 8 years when the concessions took effect.

In hindsight I still think BK would have been worse also at that time? But no I don’t have a crystal ball and could be 100% wrong? I do appreciate still having my Pension though.

Of course a new mechanic should consider UPS and FedEx too. Most would probably take whatever they can get in their City though.

I was talking when you want to compare your own averages. You have to consider the entire profession and again not cherry pick. If they can get the jobs not everyone wants to move just anywhere like as an example Chicago for UAL, DFW for AA or MEM for FedEx (If they even apply for a job)
 
Jim little is a snake pos he gave away the store to a company who under Crandall left AA IN great financial shape. Carty chose to spend that on twa Canadian pacific who merged with air Canada and he wasted money left and right. Little only care was union dues. He should if took pay cut allso. In Dallas right after the cuts little came back from San Juan on first class positive space. We found what gate he came into. Us mechanics and fleet service lined both sides of the jet bridge . We all let him have it. Instead of acting like a leader he called us all immature . At least the members showed him what we felt . He did not care he was getting his dues money and 200000 plus a year salary . And there is no difference if a airplane flys cargo are people they all need maintenance. Weas a 777 for aa requires the same maintenance as a fedex 777 dose. They both need to be airworthy to fly. But you being such a a/c maintenance hater your hate gets in the way of your brain. Your nothing but a twu cheerleading shill how much dose the twu pay you to spread your lies and hate


Dude seriously PLEASE stop. I DO NOT hate ANYBODY in ANY profession. Why in the World would I hate Aircraft Mechanics? If the planes don’t fly I have no job. Again without you and your professionalism I have no job!!!!!!!

FedEx and UPS did not get screwed by Airline Deregulation and both Companies had far more revenue than the North American Passenger Airline Industry.

And I don’t have love or hatred for Jim Little. I think he did both good things and bad. I do think he was a weak leader though. And I’ve said that a ton of times already.

And I’m also not a fan of Crandall, Carty or Arpey either. (Horton was just the BK broker)
 
Last edited:
There are two different types of Pension funding Actuarial and Fair Market Value.


Actuarial value % funded = actuarial value of assets / accrued liability ( the data used to project the funds value )

Fair value % funded = current value of assets / current liability ( the data that reports the true market. )

Credit Suisse Report of the IAMNPF from 2012

https://research-doc.credit-suisse....=oe2EIsCzrA2IIIQ+XSl2YEuKs0oEowBm8HjSTwq/kMI=

US Labor Department files suit against International Association of Machinists’ pension plan, trustees for multiple fiduciary breaches

https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/20160201-1
 
You're not sure what role good ole Jimmy Little played?
Here's an old post I found - should help refresh:


RV4Veteran
Joined:
Aug 20, 2002
Messages:
1,885
Likes Received:
80
#2RV4, Apr 24, 2003
As the TWU Leadership has now deprived the union members of a voice and legitimate vote in their future, Jim Little, in the quote below appears to claim he has single handedly saved us from ourselves.

http://www.dallasnews.com/latestnews/stori....12f4a4b23.html



Jim Little, head of the air transport division of the Transport Workers Union, wouldn't comment on Mr. Carty's departure but said he accepted the new deal because bankruptcy would be worse.

Based on these considerations and on the commitments made yesterday, our union will honor last week's vote in order to protect our members, he said. We must do everything in our power to limit exposure of our contracts and our members in bankruptcy proceedings.

What kind of union would cave to a demand that the members be deprived of a vote?

The Chapter 11 filing will likely happen anyway and that would have bought the company and the union members the time needed to legitimize this process and the agreement.

Now, we will have lawsuits, and live under a legitimate agreement for many years.

The TWU International President Sonny Hall has made many comments about the election for the President of the United States of America.

One thing is for sure. This contract ratification vote did not have any hanging or pregnant chads, but when the ATD Director has made public statements comfirming this ratification vote was not credible and then denies the members the guaranteed right to a voice in the ratification process, I think removal of the dictator controlled union is automatic.

As far as your assertion in not including UPS and Fed Ex, are they not competing for the same new talent? I always tell any young A&P Mechanics to consider UPS & Fed Ex, as well as the best paying airlines. Nobody, really wants to settle for the lower paying, small airlines. If they do, it's usually because they have ties to an area. AA just lost 5 new hire AMTs in Chicago - only days after they finished the AA B-737 Gen Fam - to SWA. Kinda hard to attract new talent when they look at our current benefits. Most are able to get the info online.

Vortilon, I am hearing of some more hiring coming in 2018 too. SWA has been hiring a lot of X-AA'ers as of lately. As SWA no longer hires in large groups, they usually hire about 5-10 per month. Keep your eyes open for more in the 2018 and thru-out 2018. Good luck yo all of you that apply.
 
Dude seriously PLEASE stop. I DO NOT hate ANYBODY in ANY profession. Why in the World would I hate Aircraft Mechanics? If the planes don’t fly I have no job. Again without you and your professionalism I have no job!!!!!!!

FedEx and UPS did not get screwed by Airline Deregulation and both Companies had far more revenue than the North American Passenger Airline Industry.

And I don’t have love or hatred for Jim Little. I think he did both good things and bad. I do think he was a weak leader though. And I’ve said that a ton of times already.

And I’m also not a fan of Crandall, Carty or Arpey either. (Horton was just the BK broker)

AMTs are skilled professionals and there is a shortage in their craft.

As I’ve said before many leading global air carriers like British Airways, Lufthansa, Korean Air and KLM outsource substantially all of their ground handling and carriers like Singapore Airlines even do so at their home base.

It’s far easier and cheaper for the company to churn and burn through Eulen or DGS type outfits but there is a finite pool of AMT skilled talent which makes wide scale outsourcing of AMT work more difficult and less financially advantageous.

Objective, unemotional cold hard facts.

Josh
 
AMTs are skilled professionals and there is a shortage in their craft.

As I’ve said before many leading global air carriers like British Airways, Lufthansa, Korean Air and KLM outsource substantially all of their ground handling and carriers like Singapore Airlines even do so at their home base.

It’s far easier and cheaper for the company to churn and burn through Eulen or DGS type outfits but there is a finite pool of AMT skilled talent which makes wide scale outsourcing of AMT work more difficult and less financially advantageous.

Objective, unemotional cold hard facts.

Josh


There’s a shortage in all areas of skilled trades within the Airline industry and that’s due to the last economic downturn where people didn’t think Airlines were a viable option.

Aircraft Mechanics are though an easier group to bring in as needed once the job is known to be enticing again. If needed Airlines can open their own schools or have apprenticeship programs if the outside market isn’t covering the need. Not the same for Pilots who are much more in demand.

Josh did you not read the BLS stats for growth for this career field choice? I suggest you peruse as I have shared here in the past.

BLS = Objective, unemotional cold hard facts.
 
There really isn’t a shortage of AMTs, plenty at the MROs to feed the airlines and still some out there who were laid off.


Now before I’m accused once again of “hating” Aircraft Mechanics, I do understand that us “Bag Smashers” are a dime a dozen.

And also note Tom that last year there were around 150,000 employed but only about 2,500 were employed at SWA. So what is that percentage and what is the honest likelihood of you getting a job with them if you wanted one anyway?


464CDE81-57D0-43B5-A94B-615F9BD4435A.png
 
There really isn’t a shortage of AMTs, plenty at the MROs to feed the airlines and still some out there who were laid off.
It's one thing Tom , to work in a hangar environment.It takes skilled technicians to work the line and turn an airplane in 30 mins on time, let alone if you have more than one airplane type.
 
That’s what training is for, you learn more with hands on than from a book.

We were all green at one time and can thank the generation before us for teaching us while working along side of them.
 
That’s what training is for, you learn more with hands on than from a book.

We were all green at one time and can thank the generation before us for teaching us while working along side of them.
Yes I know been doing line maintenance, for over 27 years. You learn the airplane on line maintenance 3rd shift, and you build on those skills for day line and afternoon line, when you get enough seniority to hold it. Then you eventually become a lead or an inspector, or go into maintenance control.
 
Well a major airline that does overhauls, you would want more than 4 C check lines, but if the fighting IAM is so smart, why didn't they want our overtime rules, and trades, an the other good stuff. Sounds like you need some new negotiating people 1880's Tom, how about it?


Why didn’t they want? From personal experience I think you know that the Company Representatives don’t just walk in with a blank check and say “Here you fill in the amount you want” No Union (Yours included obviously) gets to have life that easily put on the plate for them.

And yes honestly I also heard our Negotiators were offered the SWA Contract and were told by Harry Lombardo to pound sand.

They were also told just take one Contract or the other and we’ll give you the money. (Also told to pound sand)

Many of these Senior old birds on here may have jumped on it I suspect. Too bad.
 
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