Airbus Ruling

[justaumechanic]

justamechanic says,

F9 - Where exactly are you doing your heavy visits on the 717? Yes its a nice hangar in Atlanta but its not a heavy/base maintenance hangar.

F9 is Frontier and we do a progressive C program C1-C12 constitutes an overhaul. The work is ALL done in Denver, and working with the city of Denver for a new hangar here in the not to distant future,

But your comments of in house about SWA, JB, and Air Tran are unfounded.

[post="187382"][/post]​

Pardon my mistake..

C1 - C12 does not include S check. S check is the 5yr heavy visit on the Bus.. Am I wrong? We do our C1 - C12 checks inhouse as well.. That is not in dispute. Does Frontier plan to do their S check in-house?

How do you arrive at unfounded on jetBlue, AirTran, AmericaWest and Southwest? I was not putting them down or playing them up. I simply stated they have clear flexiability to oursource any work they desire.

If you would like to dispute that go right ahead.. That is what a forum is for..

We all know that jetBlue has their S check done at Air Canada. We all know that Southwest Oursources some of their heavy work to Goodrich. AmericaWest Outsources their work to Timco as does UAL on their narrowbody fleet.. Their widebody is done outside of the country.

I wish everyone would understand the point of the post.. I am not talking about your 3 day visit.. I am talking about the three week visit or longer!!

US Airways is going to want the right to outsource their work.. They want to change the scope language.. Especially now.. Now that they lost.. You can bet on it.. Why no commment in the news from the company? Because they are licking their wound...

I apologize for the two letter airline code error.. AirTran is FL.

 

[cavalier]

justaumechanic wrote:


How do you arrive at unfounded on jetBlue, AirTran, AmericaWest and Southwest? I was not putting them down or playing them up. I simply stated they have clear flexiability to oursource any work they desire.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the record: LUV can outsource "excess" work up to 12%, so most is in house.

As far as what U wants, they can ask for the moon but unless they have one great big space ship and a large block of real estate to park it, oh well. I want servants to do attend to my ever whim too, so what!

 

[justaumechanic]

justaumechanic wrote:
How do you arrive at unfounded on jetBlue, AirTran, AmericaWest and Southwest? I was not putting them down or playing them up. I simply stated they have clear flexiability to oursource any work they desire.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the record: LUV can outsource "excess" work up to 12%, so most is in house.

As far as what U wants, they can ask for the moon but unless they have one great big space ship and a large block of real estate to park it, oh well. I want servants to do attend to my ever whim too, so what!

[post="187392"][/post]​

Now we are on the same page..

US Airways would like to be able to define "Excess Work"..

In managements eye's the Airbus is excess work.

You are right.. They can ask for the moon..

The entire point of the post was to say our victory is hollow.. It is a victory but it will be short lived. To think otherwise is foolish.

I have no desire to see any of our work farmed to anyone.. I am a true believer in in-sourcing the work.. Our leadership is not.. We all know they have one thing in mind. CUTS.. LOW WAGES.. CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP.

 

[cavalier]

The entire point of the post was to say our victory is hollow.. It is a victory but it will be short lived. To think otherwise is foolish.

[post="187411"][/post]​

If you go back “manyâ€￾ posts of mine, I said the EXACT same thing.

My point was NO ONE can read minds and anybody can WANT anything, but again, so what.

I also said months and not weeks ago that I feel U is a goner and sorry to report I still feel the same way.

The Bus victory if anything helped make U’s demise even more likely, not less. IMO.

If it doesn’t liquidate as a company it will for many employees because the
effect will be the same.

That is why I take light on these boards, it’s too damn sad to do otherwise when so many will be harmed in the near future.

I know a guy who was a F/A and now cuts hair.

Another mechanic who started his own business, and still others who are planning on moving since they came from elsewhere anyway. Many people I know are making plans for the future figuring there is none at U.

A company 9 billion in debt, employees who are pissed off plus full of apathy, and on drugs to think straight, LCC killing everyone, pax booking away, government looking the other way----it will take more than faith of a mustard seed to fix this baby.

 

[N628AU]

As for Southwest keep this in mind.. They have 1200 mechanics system wide to maintain 400+ aircraft. We have close to 3000 system wide working 283 aircraft.

DO THE MATH.

[post="187267"][/post]​

That is the nail in the U labor coffin, or the Company's coffin as a whole, depending on the final outcome. The fact that WN can maintain that many aircraft, with nearly 2/3 fewer mechanics, plus the fact they are profitable, plus the fact they have never had a fatal accident, could mean a whole lot in front of a judge if it gets to 1113©.

For those that argue that US has taken paycut after paycut, that WN pays so much more, so it is not a labor cost issue, look at the above numbers.

 

[Baret4]

That is the nail in the U labor coffin, or the Company's coffin as a whole, depending on the final outcome. The fact that WN can maintain that many aircraft, with nearly 2/3 fewer mechanics, plus the fact they are profitable, plus the fact they have never had a fatal accident, could mean a whole lot in front of a judge if it gets to 1113©.

For those that argue that US has taken paycut after paycut, that WN pays so much more, so it is not a labor cost issue, look at the above numbers.

[post="187418"][/post]​

You have to compare also that Us operates bigger aircraft that requires more man power. They also have 5 different aircraft types as opposed to 2 for WN (737-300/500, and 737NG). The real question is "Is Southwest more efficient maintenance wise?" Probably. But, Us Airways maintenance IMO is not that far behind.

B4

 

[N628AU]

So the additional aircraft and larger plans require 150% more mechanics to operate a fleet roughly 69% of the size? Come on, no one can rationalize those numbers.

Per the companies' websites, US has 42,631 seats to sell if they sold out every seat on every aircraft at once. WN has 54,840 seats. So US has about 77% of the seat capacity. So can you argue that having 77% of the seat capacity should require US to 150% more mechanics just because they have five fleet types? This mentality is exactly what will kill this place.

 

[cavalier]

So the additional aircraft and larger plans require 150% more mechanics to operate a fleet roughly 69% of the size? Come on, no one can rationalize those numbers.

Per the companies' websites, US has 42,631 seats to sell if they sold out every seat on every aircraft at once. WN has 54,840 seats. So US has about 77% of the seat capacity. So can you argue that having 77% of the seat capacity should require US to 150% more mechanics just because they have five fleet types? This mentality is exactly what will kill this place.

[post="187423"][/post]​

That mentality is not and was not responsible for killing "this" place. A whole bunch of arrogance and infighting caused small minded individuals and a very inapt management "killed" this place. The employees didn't make the "decisions" to structure it as it is. They work here supporting their families and now all of a sudden individuals like yourself say they are a liability and that they must take the bridge and if they feel screwed you say they have a twisted mentality. Look in the mirror oh man with little mind. Further more. Attitudes like yours will assure absolute failure by strengthening the resolve of individuals who have been to hell and back working for this outfit, especially the mechanics if and when it becomes their turn in the spot light to take this place down once and for all and finally. Praise The Lord for many.

 

[Baret4]

So the additional aircraft and larger plans require 150% more mechanics to operate a fleet roughly 69% of the size? Come on, no one can rationalize those numbers.

Per the companies' websites, US has 42,631 seats to sell if they sold out every seat on every aircraft at once. WN has 54,840 seats. So US has about 77% of the seat capacity. So can you argue that having 77% of the seat capacity should require US to 150% more mechanics just because they have five fleet types? This mentality is exactly what will kill this place.

[post="187423"][/post]​

You seem to have forgotten that I did say Southwest is probably more efficient than US Airways. Not only in maintenance but all aspects of operation.
Aircraft size does matter. It is simple logic. The bigger the planes are the more man power you need. Not only mechanics, engineers, operations, tooling, etc, etc,etc.... 150% more mechanics? We do a lot more work inhouse than WN.
The fight will obviously be how much work will be retained and how much will be outsourced. 700uw put up some interesting numbers on outsourcing vs inhouse.

IMO the quality of the airline will tank if US doesnt retain these very talented individuals.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

You seem to have forgotten that I did say Southwest is probably more efficient than US Airways. Not only in maintenance but all aspects of operation.
Aircraft size does matter. It is simple logic. The bigger the planes are the more man power you need. Not only mechanics, engineers, operations, tooling, etc, etc,etc.... 150% more mechanics? We do a lot more work inhouse than WN.
The fight will obviously be how much work will be retained and how much will be outsourced. 700uw put up some interesting numbers on outsourcing vs inhouse.

IMO the quality of the airline will tank if US doesnt retain these very talented individuals.

[post="187445"][/post]​

Baret4, yes, it's true. It's US Airways loss if they don't do the right thing and keep the best maintenance in the industry. Still, I have no doubt in my mind that many of our most talented individuals will find much better options at new frontiers, so to speak.

 

[JonC]

Also, 700 the ruling you posted stated the board ruled the company had over 5 years to plan...they didn't say they had the space.

[post="186687"][/post]​

They even had started planning to do the checks in TPA. But, then they closed that site so they wouldn't have space to do it. How convenient.

 

[delldude]

Ah, is this the IAM "painful clause" you have been stammering about on here for 3 months????

ah ha ha ha ha.... :mf_boff: :mf_boff: :mf_boff:

 

[cavalier]

Ah, is this the IAM "painful clause" you have been stammering about on here for 3 months????

ah ha ha ha ha.... :mf_boff: :mf_boff: :mf_boff:

[post="187496"][/post]​

On the noon news in Pittsburgh they were saying the "bus win" could mean bringing back jobs, boy are they dreaming but sure wish it were true. Too bad we are just about over the edge and teetering.....

 

[usfliboi]

Just shows, IAM is out of touch here. This ruling means nothing. Usairways wont pay any damages and if so pennies on the doallar in bk. Us holds all cards. IAM will give in to what the company wants, or the company throws exsisting contracts out and they will get what the judges throws them untill....... Im not sure of anyones thinking it would be different....

 

[cavalier]

Just shows, IAM is out of touch here. This ruling means nothing. Usairways wont pay any damages and if so pennies on the doallar in bk. Us holds all cards. IAM will give in to what the company wants, or the company throws exsisting contracts out and they will get what the judges throws them untill....... Im not sure of anyones thinking it would be different....

[post="187522"][/post]​

Want to take a bet fly child?

Unlike you, the mechanics have a hardy set of stones attached. [