Against Seniority for Non-Rev Travel

[Dog Wonder]

Thanks for clearing that up. And here's my 2 cents:

As a non-rev in LGA I approached the gate to make sure I didn't have to remind the agent I was there and had been rolled over from the 3 previous flights (revs due to wx). It was my first time and I didn't want to get left behind. He didn't clear the list, and that flight went out with 3 empty seats. So it's not so uncommon that a Sabre user fails to clear the list, either.

Then there was another time in LGA (my picture must be in the back h34r: ) that the night before there were 5 revenue seats with 3 NRSA listed. Morning of departure, same counts, as we left for the airport 2 hours prior, same counts. When we got to the airport 90 minutes prior to departure, there were now 8 NRSA ahead of us because of DOH. If it had been FCFS we could have checked at the 12-hour window and known where we stood amongst those 8. How does that make for better planning?

And I have never had trouble finding an Internet connection, even on my trips to Asia.

Breaks my heart a common man like you got left behind because of seniority.

Hope you get more time in before you fly again.

 

[proudf/a]

Life is full of changes. When I was hired back in 1989 during the Piedmont/US Air merger, nobody told me I had a job for life ans that everything would be all roses. I was diplaced from PIT to DCA in 1991. I put everything I had in storage back in PIT, found me a crashpad inDCA until I could figure out what I wanted to do. I ended up moving to CLT and commuting for 8 years on RSV, due to the fact I would have been quickcalled every night in CLT. I waited until my seniority allowed my some leverage. I rode J/S, went up the night befor, or did what ever I had to to be where my job was. I didn't cry about wanting to be in front of other "non-working" pax. Commuters should never go infront of others. That would be a joke.

If they choose to use the FCFS non revenue boarding, then yes people who are commuting to work should have a higher boarding priority, with rules. Such as, must be in uniform, must be a registered commuter. Can only get the higher priority between the city you commute from to the base you commute too. I don't think that is something that is completely unreasonable.

 

[Awa Contract]

Commuters do so by choice - they should not have a higher priority

 

[SegmentKing]

Barbell -- I have the same frustrations, just on the "West" side.

At "East" we are trained to not even smile at the gate agent while they're working a flight... some agents will clear you as you come up to ask how its looking, some will do it by the book and wait 30 mins before (if you KNOW you have open seats), some will wait until 10 mins prior and rush you all on.

When I fly "West" it seems like we have to keep pestering the GA's... I've been left behind because the gate agent for got about me a few times.. and it just gets under me as there's nothing we can really do as a leisure, non revenue traveler

 

[MarkMyWords]

Then there was another time in LGA (my picture must be in the back h34r: ) that the night before there were 5 revenue seats with 3 NRSA listed. Morning of departure, same counts, as we left for the airport 2 hours prior, same counts. When we got to the airport 90 minutes prior to departure, there were now 8 NRSA ahead of us because of DOH. If it had been FCFS we could have checked at the 12-hour window and known where we stood amongst those 8. How does that make for better planning?

And I have never had trouble finding an Internet connection, even on my trips to Asia.

With FCFS could you have the same scenario? If I check in for the 9am PHX-LAX and don't get on, I would be rolled to the 10:30 PHX-LAX with my original check-in time and go ahead of you, right? So I check-in at 9pm the night before for a full flight, standby and don't get on. You check-in at 10:30pm the night before and are #1 on the SA3 list. When they roll the stand-by list, you are suddenly #2 because I checked in for the earlier flight.

Also, to those that think the DOH can't (and isn't) manipulated, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[proudf/a]

Commuters do so by choice - they should not have a higher priority

I really hope you are never in the position that most of us found ourselves in with 15-20 yrs seniority, displaced. Then again, maybe it would be a good thing, because obviously you would choose to quit. Please do not judge those of us that have been kicked to the curb. We did not chose to be thrown out of our domicle. Many are not in positions to uproot our lives to move at this stage in our life. Yeah, I bet at our seniority most of the people with your attitude would love for us to quit. I did not choose to commute that decision was made for me. I am not leaving this job because personally, I love it. So, I will continue to commute until PHX becomes open, and then I will move to a crew base, along with many other 100's of f/a's who will no longer be able to deal with commuting due to the system the company has in place.

 

[Seatacus]

I did not choose to commute that decision was made for me.

So your saying that absolutely no way there were no other choices.

 

[N109UW]

I really hope you are never in the position that most of us found ourselves in with 15-20 yrs seniority, displaced. Then again, maybe it would be a good thing, because obviously you would choose to quit. Please do not judge those of us that have been kicked to the curb. We did not chose to be thrown out of our domicle. Many are not in positions to uproot our lives to move at this stage in our life. Yeah, I bet at our seniority most of the people with your attitude would love for us to quit. I did not choose to commute that decision was made for me. I am not leaving this job because personally, I love it. So, I will continue to commute until PHX becomes open, and then I will move to a crew base, along with many other 100's of f/a's who will no longer be able to deal with commuting due to the system the company has in place.

I was in your position and dealt with it. You read my earlier post. You do what you have to in order to be where you work. I didn't choose to commute, it waqs made for me. And I dealt with it. To think commuters should have any more advantage than others is redicuulous. I commuted for 8 years on the 105 hour option. I don't care if you quit or not, but this is a business, and we all work for the business. I didn't complain or think the company owed me anything becuase I was displaced. That would be stupid of me to think that. When they close all these Air Force bases around the country, do those people get to commute. No, they pick up and move. I know, we did it.

 

[proudf/a]

So your saying that absolutely no way there were no other choices.

The only choice getting displaced leaves us with is to commute to your new domicile, move there or quit. Moving is not at option for me at this stage of the game, maybe down the road in a few years once my children finish high school. Quitting isn't an option, I love this job plus I have invested nearly 20 yrs into this company. I have taken my licks over the years and being displaced is just another one of those. I will deal with having to commute.

The entire point of this thread is to discuss the pros/cons of each non rev policy. Unfortunatly on the East there are 100's (lots of 100's) of f/a's that have been forced out of their original domiciles. My only point to the FCFS system is if you are commuting to/from work, there should be a higher priority for those people. Only to/from work, in uniform. Not a higher priority to non rev all over the system. Just when you are going to work and going home. That is not entirely unreasonable.

Being displaced was NOT a choice. Shame on people for expecting those who have been displaced to quit their jobs. I just hope for those that do not understand what it is like, it never happens to them. Nothing is sacred in this industry for those of us that have been around for a while knows that all too well. Who would ever think that 15 yrs seniority would get you kicked out of your base where you have spent your entire career, built your life. Who would of ever thought that after 23 yrs you would be sitting on reserve working weekends and holidays.

What would you do if today you got that letter in the mail telling you, that in 30 days you will be displaced from PHX? Would you quit? Would you pack your family and move across the country? or Would you commute?

Be thankful for everyday that you do not get that letter.

I was in your position and dealt with it. You read my earlier post. You do what you have to in order to be where you work. I didn't choose to commute, it waqs made for me. And I dealt with it. To think commuters should have any more advantage than others is redicuulous. I commuted for 8 years on the 105 hour option. I don't care if you quit or not, but this is a business, and we all work for the business. I didn't complain or think the company owed me anything becuase I was displaced. That would be stupid of me to think that. When they close all these Air Force bases around the country, do those people get to commute. No, they pick up and move. I know, we did it.

I am so happy for you that you have made it work. How well would you have been able to commute for all of those years on a FCFS system? I am not saying the company owes us anything more then anyone else. I will stand by my convictions that people commuting to work on a FCFS system should have a high priority boarding. If not then we will fight the DOH system to the very end.

 

[Seatacus]

I did not choose to commute that decision was made for me.

The only choice getting displaced leaves us with is to commute to your new domicile, move there or quit.

With all due respect it sounds like you still made the choice.

 

[proudf/a]

With all due respect it sounds like you still made the choice.

So you are suggesting that those of us who were displaced should quit our jobs?

 

[SegmentKing]

Well, I must say that I now have a firm opinion. DOH.

I was flying from XXX to a hub in which US/HP has two flights at the same time. I listed thru theHub for the 2nd flight, which had 80 seats open. I then checked in around 11 hours before and saw 4 passengers ahead of me in my priority classification.

I check usairways.com before I leave home and the flight is still on time, so I "push it" like I normally do (arrive at the airport 30-45 mins before departure).

I clear security with 35 mins to go and look up at the FIDS -- there is no gate for my flight.

I then go down to the other gate for the 1st flight and its pretty full.. the gate agents are pretty busy when I find a nice HP employee at the next gate -- he doesn't know what is going on with MY flight, said he thinks it will cancel but the code is BALEQP and he's never heard of it. He then tries to roll me over to this flight.

Said that I'm at the bottom.

I have been told that if we roll over, like we do at USEast, time of check-in is maintained. Not this time.

I was the last person to get a seat on this flight.... after 12 people were ahead of me (Non-revs).

Now normally when the agent tells me the condition of the flight -- 5 open seats, 25 on the list, I know where I stand without even asking... i then find a new way home.

Unfortunately this was not the case. Had this been a US-East flight, I would have removed myself from the list and quickly found a new way to get to my final destination... had I waited any longer, I would have missed flights to other points that would have otherwise gotten me to my final destination -- just with a creative routing.

I'm sorry to my friends at HP, but I really do not like your system... I have to say thumbs down to FCFS.

 

[tadjr]

I saw this tonight as well BALEQP. Some type of equipment code, but not sure what.
If it was the flight I think it was tonight I hope we helped you some. We had about a 2 hour ramp closure because of storms and misconx about 20 people to a certain West city from a hub with multiple wingtip flights. By the time I could rebook them all, the canx flight had taken most of the seats. I got the last seat on both of the later flights for our misconx, which of course meant that 20 seats opened up on the earlier flight (after they had rebooked?) which meant open seat for you???

As Homer Simpson would say, DOH!

 

[rjh]

Well, I must say that I now have a firm opinion. DOH.

I was flying from XXX to a hub in which US/HP has two flights at the same time. I listed thru theHub for the 2nd flight, which had 80 seats open. I then checked in around 11 hours before and saw 4 passengers ahead of me in my priority classification.

I check usairways.com before I leave home and the flight is still on time, so I "push it" like I normally do (arrive at the airport 30-45 mins before departure).

I clear security with 35 mins to go and look up at the FIDS -- there is no gate for my flight.

I then go down to the other gate for the 1st flight and its pretty full.. the gate agents are pretty busy when I find a nice HP employee at the next gate -- he doesn't know what is going on with MY flight, said he thinks it will cancel but the code is BALEQP and he's never heard of it. He then tries to roll me over to this flight.

Said that I'm at the bottom.

I have been told that if we roll over, like we do at USEast, time of check-in is maintained. Not this time.

I was the last person to get a seat on this flight.... after 12 people were ahead of me (Non-revs).

Now normally when the agent tells me the condition of the flight -- 5 open seats, 25 on the list, I know where I stand without even asking... i then find a new way home.

Unfortunately this was not the case. Had this been a US-East flight, I would have removed myself from the list and quickly found a new way to get to my final destination... had I waited any longer, I would have missed flights to other points that would have otherwise gotten me to my final destination -- just with a creative routing.

I'm sorry to my friends at HP, but I really do not like your system... I have to say thumbs down to FCFS.

Sounds like you probably were rolled over ..but since the flights are dual ops, many people on the "non-cancelled" flight could have checked in before you.

How would DOH have helped you in this instance? You said if it was DOH, you would have removed yourself from the list and found a new way to your destination. You also seemed to imply you didn't know where you stood on the flight ..but you also said the agent told you that you were at the bottom.

And I'm just guessing . .was your final destination DTW and then FLL?

 

[Barbell]

said he thinks it will cancel but the code is BALEQP and he's never heard of it. He then tries to roll me over to this flight.

Said that I'm at the bottom.

I have been told that if we roll over, like we do at USEast, time of check-in is maintained. Not this time.

Sounds as if you unfortunately encountered an agent that didn't know what he was doing. If he had known what he was doing, he could have told you exactly what was going on, and put you on the list in the correct place, not at the bottom. In this regard, DOH vs. FCFS should be no different.

BALEQP is basic West operations 101, and is one of the very first things you learn. It stands for Balance of Equipment Cancellation. Basically in a station (particularly one with multiple wingtips) if a flight is cancelled (say PHX-LAX) then the return, or balance (LAX-PHX) is cancelled due to a balance of equipment, not the reason for the original cancellation. Revenue pax are reaccomodated, and the agent should roll over NRSA to the operational flight in the order in which they checked in. If you had asked for a supervisor, they should have known how to correct the situation and put you on the list in the correct order. Instead it sounds as if this agent chose to uncheck your original flight and re-check your new one. More difficult to do, and incorrect.

Basically, you checked in to go from Point A to Point B at Time X. In this situation, regardless of the wingtip flight you took, your check-in time should have been protected.