Against Seniority for Non-Rev Travel

MarkMyWords said:
With FCFS could you have the same scenario? If I check in for the 9am PHX-LAX and don't get on, I would be rolled to the 10:30 PHX-LAX with my original check-in time and go ahead of you, right? So I check-in at 9pm the night before for a full flight, standby and don't get on. You check-in at 10:30pm the night before and are #1 on the SA3 list. When they roll the stand-by list, you are suddenly #2 because I checked in for the earlier flight.
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Yes, but then I know, because I checked the loads for the earlier flight, where I stand on both lists.

You check in at 9pm for the 9am PHX-LAX. Capacity, let's say, is 100, authorization is 105, booked to 103, and you are the 3rd SA3 to check in, no SA1s or SA2s.

I check in at 10:30pm for the 10:30am PHX-LAX. For argument's sake, let's say capacity, authorization, and bookings are identical. However, I am first on the SA3 list.

You, and 2 more SA3s behind you get rolled over to the 10:30 flight. You, having checked in at 9pm are ahead of me on the list. The other 2 that rolled over with you took their chances and decided to check in at the airport when they got to PHX at 7am. So now it's You, Me, 2 SA3s who checked in at 10:30pm with me, followed by the 2 SA3s who checked in for the 9am flight at 7am. I already know these rankings because I could check them after I checked in at 10:30pm, assumed at least 5 people could be ahead of me, but I was first for my flight. In a DOH situation, I can go up and down that list on a whim until check-in cutoff depending on who decides to list for that 10:30am flight.

So 2 non-revs get on the 10:30am flight, just like the 9am flight: You and Me. The rest are rolled over to the 10:45am flight based on the time at which they checked in because they have already attempted 2 previous flights. No different than DOH. Only the difference is that someone with a better DOH date can't show up at 10am and drop them one more notch down the list.

Hope everyone could follow that.
 
Sounds like you need to be a detective to research where you *may* be on the list. Sounds like the bottom line is that you will never really know with 100% accuracy where you will be on either list. Any number of things could happen to move you up or down the list on either side.

Proud F/A

I was given 21 days notice to move to PHX. I also saw the writing on the walls way before it happened and made my plans accordingly. The PIT crew base wasn't chopped to pieces over night. It was slowly dwindled to its current size. Did you not see the bus coming?

I worked in BWI when it was at it's peak. Slowly but surely, you could see the writing on the walls. The hub was going to be dismantled. So I planned accordingly. When my displacemtn papers finally arrived, I was prepared. I was given 3 weeks to move from BWI to PIT.

I will give you some slack on being as flexible as I am because you have a family and I do not. Base closures and station reallignments don't just happen overnight (except TPA MTC). All of the warning signs would have been there. If you chose to ignore them and not prepare yourself, then you have no one to blame but yourself. If you chose to commute, then that is your choice. You live with the consequences and should not be provided any type of "priority" for a choice that you made.

Just my opinion.....
 
In the end, commuting really is a choice. I commuted out of choice: it was the lesser of two evils. I wish I could have saved my body the wear and tear, but I needed to live where my life was. However, I don't think that commuters should get a higher priority over someone who lives or actually MOVED to base. Who is to determine whether one type of non-revving is more important than another? Is your getting to work more important that my visiting my ailing _____? Or, is my visit more important than someone's wedding? The one thing that I am sure of, is that the priority should be by DOH. It provides equal access, order, and honors those who have served the longest.
 
MarkMyWords said:
Sounds like you need to be a detective to research where you *may* be on the list. Sounds like the bottom line is that you will never really know with 100% accuracy where you will be on either list. Any number of things could happen to move you up or down the list on either side.

Proud F/A

I was given 21 days notice to move to PHX. I also saw the writing on the walls way before it happened and made my plans accordingly. The PIT crew base wasn't chopped to pieces over night. It was slowly dwindled to its current size. Did you not see the bus coming?

I worked in BWI when it was at it's peak. Slowly but surely, you could see the writing on the walls. The hub was going to be dismantled. So I planned accordingly. When my displacemtn papers finally arrived, I was prepared. I was given 3 weeks to move from BWI to PIT.

I will give you some slack on being as flexible as I am because you have a family and I do not. Base closures and station reallignments don't just happen overnight (except TPA MTC). All of the warning signs would have been there. If you chose to ignore them and not prepare yourself, then you have no one to blame but yourself. If you chose to commute, then that is your choice. You live with the consequences and should not be provided any type of "priority" for a choice that you made.

Just my opinion.....
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I appreciate your generousity where my family is concerned. I cannot uproot my children, nor can we afford for my husband to give up his job in hopes of finding one equally as good elsewhere.

Yes the writing has been on the wall for 3 yrs in PIT. However, this company now wants to change the rules. DOH has been our norm since the beginning of time. People know they are going to get to work. My opinion is firm, I realize people do not agree, nor do they have too. If this company changes this system to the FCFS, then people commuting to work should have a higher boarding priority. If that is the case, I have no problems switching to HP's system. If they do not offer a higher boarding status, the battle line will be drawn, you can count on that.

You have heard of the old saying, becareful what you wish for? This may end up biting the PHX base in the butt. If this company makes it difficult for those very, very senior former PSA f/a and pilots to commute from SAN/LAX/SFO to PHL, they will transfer to PHX once its available to them. It very well may end up opening a Pandora's Box.
 
proudf/a said:
If this company makes it difficult for those very, very senior former PSA f/a and pilots to commute from SAN/LAX/SFO to PHL, they will transfer to PHX once its available to them. It very well may end up opening a Pandora's Box.
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They will be transferring to PHX as soon as positions open anyway. Most have done their best "three out of ten" on Trans-Atlantic, and would welcome something easier, say, HNL.
 
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rjh said:
Sounds like you probably were rolled over ..but since the flights are dual ops, many people on the "non-cancelled" flight could have checked in before you.

How would DOH have helped you in this instance? You said if it was DOH, you would have removed yourself from the list and found a new way to your destination. You also seemed to imply you didn't know where you stood on the flight ..but you also said the agent told you that you were at the bottom.

And I'm just guessing . .was your final destination DTW and then FLL? :D
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I went from #5 on the list to #13 or #14.... that's where I am a bit bitter --- again, thankfully 2 NRSA's didn't show up and I made it. Had i not made this flight, this would have been the *5th* time trying to get home where an irreg op had messed up my trip.

Regarding "knowing" where I stand, I would have hopped to PHL or CLT then over, or at least ran to another flight that would have opened up some other connections. I've done that quite a bit on the "east" side -- you can sign into any open computer, do a simple G* entry and it shows you how many are checked in, capacity, look at the pall list, and make a valid decision -- yes, most NRSA's can't do this which puts me at a different advantage, but I always know where I stand on the PALL... and that's the mystery of things with FCFS -- you really don't know where you stand, especially with a roll-over.

I felt bad for the HP agents -- they were being swarmed and cancellations of any kind aren't fun --- I also liked how they barked at NRSAs to stay seated *heh* oh the memories!
 
You commute by choice - your choice should not interfere with another's flight benefits which is what giving commuters a higher priority does. Commuting is your CHOICE not thiers.
 
FCFS>> I'm trying to get on the ETC to check-in for my flight thats within 12 hrs...guess what? It's down, so this is another reason I, personally, am against FCFS...the ETC is not reliable..at least now
 
proudf/a said:
So you are suggesting that those of us who were displaced should quit our jobs?
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No, I am not saying you should quit your job. That would be YOUR decision. You were saying that the decision was made for you. I am saying that you have choices which you listed and you have chosen the one which suits you the best. But, it was still YOUR choice. Many are faced with the same choices and do the same as you. Some move to their domicile, some quit, some uproot their kids from school, but they do so by choice. Some really love this job but decide that commuting is too much of a hardship for all and CHOSE to either move or quit.
 
We should start a poll. Anyone with over 20 years seniority AND wants FCFS? Or anyone with with less than 20 years want DOH?

THINK! If you want FCFS, you are probably junior. Once this happens, it's done. Sure will stink once you're senior and you watch some new hire run right past you and get checked into the only seat left.

Of course, management is going to do exactly what they want anyways....regardless of how much anyone posts.
 
SegmentKing said:
I went from #5 on the list to #13 or #14.... that's where I am a bit bitter --- again, thankfully 2 NRSA's didn't show up and I made it. Had i not made this flight, this would have been the *5th* time trying to get home where an irreg op had messed up my trip.

Regarding "knowing" where I stand, I would have hopped to PHL or CLT then over, or at least ran to another flight that would have opened up some other connections. I've done that quite a bit on the "east" side -- you can sign into any open computer, do a simple G* entry and it shows you how many are checked in, capacity, look at the pall list, and make a valid decision -- yes, most NRSA's can't do this which puts me at a different advantage, but I always know where I stand on the PALL... and that's the mystery of things with FCFS -- you really don't know where you stand, especially with a roll-over.
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You could just as easily have been bumped from #5 to #13 with DOH. And , when people rolloever from flight to flight with DOH, you also don't really know where you stand, do you?

With FCFS, unless there are rollovers, you always know where you stand (within your own priority). Sure, revenue pax and higher priority non-revs can bump you ..but they will bump you with DOH as well. But with FCFS, you have a good idea of knowing your chances of making a flight from the day you make the listing, all the way through the flight. When you check in on Compass, it tells you how many have checked in. You won't know such a list with DOH until you get to the airport and ask the agent. Yes, with FCFS non-revs rolled from earlier flights can bump yo . .but that would happen with DOH as well.
 
[quote name='rjh' date='Jul 23 2006, 09:32
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Simply put - not everyone can go by the fcfs rule due to the security no fly list and until they fix that then it will not fly b/c if 10-15 people are inconvenienced then it doesnt work - it has to be fair for all - DOH it is
 
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