USCREW
Veteran
It's a good thing you chose to live in PHX because HPs salaries would not pay the rent in any of our NE hubs.
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Against Seniority for Non-Rev Travel
- Thread starter SegmentKing
- Start date
Are you for real? How about this...I've moved several times...ALREADY and NOT of my choice....SECOND how about 3 seats available and 42 non rev's listed. AND it's like that ALL DAY!!! A couple of j/s ain't gonna do it hun. I HOPE SOMEDAY YOU ARE FORCED OUT OF YOUR PLACE OF WORK TO ANOTHER STATE,3 or 4 times... perhaps then you'll have an idea how ridiculous your statement sounds to everyone out here. Oh and FYI this whole industry is about flying to work...If you have NO knowledge of the job...stay off the Blog
I believe that anyone that wants to post on here is free to do so. The ENTIRE industry is not about flying to work--only for those that chose to not move to their new bases, or chose to not take a job that is not subject to base closures.
The company has not yet decided where a combined SOC/OCC will be ..and I will have absolutely no say in the matter if my current location is closed ..but I WILL have one of several choices: move, commute, or find a new job. Nobody will FORCE me to move 3 or 4 states away. If I decide to do that, it's MY CHOICE. Do my available options suck? Sure they do . .but that's life!
This arguement could go on for the next century (or at least until Doug makes a decision). Either way, a lot of people are going to be unhappy, but at the same time a lot of people are going to love it. We could go back and forth about this all day, but really what's the point? We all know a lot of East people love the seniority thing, and the West people like the FCFS. I'm an east employee who lives out west, so I get to try both systems all the time. Just lately, I got back to the east coast because I work up early and checked-in on an HP operated flight. At the same time, my seniority got me home on a sunday night on an East flight, and I barely have two years here! So, whichever way it goes, I'm going to have to deal with it, just like everyone else.
Well said, Johnny ..unfortunatly, there will probalby be many people on the "losing side" (whichever that will be) that will just use that as another reason to complain.
TheLazarusman
Advanced
I start my twenty-third year with the company in three weeks. The company has taken away my vacation, my holidays, increased my medical, and taken away a good chunk of my pay. The only thing I have left is my seniority. I'll be damned if I'll give that up without a fight. Sorry, but in my view time served is time served. My aching back has to account for something. The funny thing is, I rarely use my flight benefits; but when I do I'll be damned if some junior puke with three years with the company is going to get on an airplane before me.
Deal with it,
Laz
Deal with it,
Laz
So what will you do if FCFS is the first choice? If DOH is chosen I will deal with it, because I have no choice. I have a feeling you wont' deal with it if FCFS is chosen.
Nobody's advocating "taking away your seniority" . .you still have it for more pay, more vacatino, and better schedules.
angiepangie
Newbie
- Sep 26, 2005
- 8
- 0
Nope, back in the day, after ASU, I was hired by HP Class 5 but I also had an offer from the then high-paying United. I CHOSE AWA in Phoenix. I knew that I had an opportunity to have good seniority and I was willing to give it a try RATHER than relocate to what probably would have been Chicago and sit reserve for who knows how long. I went through unpaid 16 week training because we were also cross-utilized through about 8 different positions, and onboard ticketing. Our pay was $6.06 an hour (12,600) a year for the first 3 yrs. Additionally we had to pay 10% of our income into company stock, making it an Employee owned company. We worked 5/2 work weeks, 2-3 at airport services and 2-3 inflight. We were non -union, we were aware of union companies but we CHOSE to stay here. Many of us came from Eastern, old Braniff of the Concorde days, Frontier and CO (who was in bad shape at that time.) Just FYI, AZ is a right-to-work state and most of us did not know anything about unions. FA's voted AFA down 3 separate times. We did have Dash 8's at one time and 737/757/747 and we worked all of these AND the gates. We chose to stay here. We knew we were the lowest paid in the industry, but AZ had a low cost of living. I doubt that any of you would have CHOSEN to come to AZ to work at our little airline, low pay-sure- but where you could buy a condo for $52,000 in 1988. We did Itn'l flights, troop charters to Saudi, yada yada (so I'm puzzled when East people say that we must not understand because we are so unsophisticated and unfamiliar with ACTUAL airlines. I've been here about 23 years and I'm pretty sure that I have been a working FA the whole time).
Paycheck envy, sure, I've done everything that you guys do and I've always made a LOT less than you. But somehow, even single, I managed to buy real estate and amass a rather large 401K.
We've had paycuts, 10% off of about $9.00 per hour, furloughs and the company zeroed out our mandatory stock purchase. Some people left and went to other carriers but a lot of us chose to stay because we BUILT our airline and (pretty much) we like it.
America West has hired on and off for years. I didn't see any US people hustling over to start accruing seniority over here, you could have, the first time you were displaced. You chose not to.
Mostly it seems that nobody at the East side even bothered to look into the history of AWA, we weren't even a blip on your radar, but we managed to build a pretty good company.
Now it would appear that a lot of you (not all, I'm sure) will not rest until we lose our vacation etc, because our good management chose to merge with a big, cumbersome old-time airline with a lot of bitter employees who cannot accept change. I imagine that you guys can make us all feel terrible and bitter too, given enough time.
We've earned our seniority too, and most senior people feel FCFS is just fine.
Seatacus
Veteran
You seem to have your mind made up about those at US East. I find that to be a little presumptuous and self-righteous.
angiepangie
Newbie
- Sep 26, 2005
- 8
- 0
Nope, not really,(at least not as much as some who post here) I have a pretty open mind and I also do not have any choice in this matter. But I have quietly read most of these posts for a long time and I find them very discouraging. I could take the time when I get back from my trip, to point them out to you. Alot,not all, are very condescending and insulting to our airline and our employees. The prevailing attitude seems to be that all of us over here just fell off the turnip truck and frankly, that is not true. Sorry, there doesn't seem to be much room for any other opinion that the ones that the East choose to express. I read lots of "deal with it", "get over it", "grow up"and/or" we outnumber you so haha". I am 47 years old, I guess I am a grown-up and I also have a point of view that I should be allowed to express. I wouldn't consider myself more self-righteous than those who submit that "it should be ________ because it has always been that way for us and that's the way it should be forever, so deal with it!." I maintain that we have had legitimate, rather fun jobs for 24 all the way down to less than one year at HP. Just like not everyone at your airline is fat, old and mean, not all of ours are blonde, 22 years old and bubble headed.
Seatacus
Veteran
Nope, not really......but thanks for making my point.
LCC_#1
Veteran
- Nov 16, 2005
- 1,771
- 0
Angie,
First of all, there are 35,000 employees at US and the voices here represent a small group but also a cross section...the same cross section that is probably out west. Secondly, USAviation has always had a large number of US followers, way before the merger. You use to hear the crickets chirping over on the old AWA boards. So in this case, it IS because "we are larger". I am glad to see more people from the West come on the forum as I have been enlightened by those that have set certain rumors or stereotypes straight.
Having said that, I am very aware of the rich history of AWA. I don't think there is the belittling of the west that you seem to think...I would say a few smartass statements in a heated moment..but please..most of us are VERY thankful for a management team that wants to RUN US Airways, not try to figure out how to get rid of it.
We have a history as well. And if you and other look at the history, the "bitter" attitudes that you speak of came from a good 8 years of leaders who lied over and over just to take their millions. Then another CEO would come along and make promises and walk away with millions. As you know, when you layoff half of your company, it is done from the bottom. 20 years now with US is not as good as it was 10 years ago. Thats life, but we are a senority driven industry and when folks talk of more vacation, higher pay, and better schedules, I laugh. For many, DOH just seems another benfit to give up. That doesn't mean its right or wrong. It's how some feel. I don't think if a person expresses their opinions that they are bitter.
Also, please just take a moment to consider this. On the west coast, you guys have always had one main base..PHX. While I will agree that it is a person's choice to commute, there is more here than seems. I will give you an example.
The following cities use to be bases:
GSO
ORF
INT
ILM
ATL
SYR
BWI
MIA
ROA
SFO
SAN
LAX
12 cities. Most of those cities that you are probably trying to figure out use to have mainline jets. People got to work with no problem. Between the seats available and the fa jumpseats, one could get to work. Over the last three years, most of those cities provide only RJ service and the flights now are always full with no f/a jumpseats. We now have crews driving 3-4 hours to go to work. What are they to do? Its been years since a base has closed, so who can afford now to move? Paycuts took care of that.
Why didnt people move to bases? Geez, you never knew what was going down next, so many stayed where they were and commuted. Why move to a base if the company may decided to close it. That's how CRAZY it was!! AND....another lie was the intent of the RJ. It was NEVER suppose to be a replacement ac for mainline but thats what happened...no warning to commuters..just a replacement of big jets.
Besides Columbus, PHX is where you have known you will be when at AWA. Close PHX and the airline is closed. Its just not the same out here in the East.
That is why many are concerned about fcfs. It will just add to the burden. Where I get angry with the West reaction is when there is a childish remark when that person doesn't understand the history of the old US pass what the USA Today says. Literally HUNDREDS of US Airways crews commute in a very well populated eastern seaboard. Zipping to work use to be easy with many alternatives..no more.
I hope this gives some understanding as to why many are concerned with doh going away. We just have a few with strong opinions.
Having said all THAT. I could care less about how we travel. I choose to live in base and choose to live in a hub. If I dont make a flight, I can zip home in 8 min. For me it works, but I can see the concern of others. Once we screwed our parents out of free travel, the benefits are no longer fun as they are retired and would join me on layovers..too costly for that now.
I would hope that you would take a moment to realize that there are two sides to arrogance, entitlement, and yes, kindness and respect. I have read MANY childish responses from the west that leave me shaking my head. I have also seen inappropriate things from the EAST. Thats life.
There are MANY of us that are VERY HAPPY and have EXCELLENT ATTITUDES.
Lastly, why is it that you think you will loose your vacation? We are ALL in negotiations. If you don't like a proposal and there are concessions, VOTE NO!!! If you loose vacation it is because you CHOOSE to (unless nonunion), but don't blame the "old bitter" east US Airways employees. We ARE one company now and must stand TOGETHER for a FAIR contract and successful company, REGARDLESS of doh or fcfs.
Very well said. No base is sacred today, not even their precious PHX because as I have stated many many times. If it becomes difficult for these 25-40 yr seniority f/a's and pilots to get to work from California, they will flood PHX when they can get in there. Be a shame if people with 10 yrs or more ended up back on reserve. Maybe then will they understand what we are trying to say.
You wanna commute? Leave early or get a crash pad. Seniority is OUR only benefit.
h34r: Leisure or commute doesn't really matter.
