Afa Meeting
- Thread starter Harry Callahan
- Start date
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
Pitbull said: "Management seeks both defined pensions of IAM and AFA."
Dont call me Shirley said: "Not that it makes it right, but don't forget that customer svc and ramp lost their defined pension benefits over a decade ago. Defined pensions are going the way of the dodo bird all across corporate America. And Treasury Sec Snow doesn't thinks that is such a bad thing."
USA320Pilot comments: Yesterday United deferred a July 15 pension payment of over $70 million. In addition, the Rocky Mountain News reported "the company hasn't decided whether to defer a total of $525.6 million in contributions to its plans due between Sept. 15 and Oct. 15 of this year" (click here for story).
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Dont call me Shirley said: "Not that it makes it right, but don't forget that customer svc and ramp lost their defined pension benefits over a decade ago. Defined pensions are going the way of the dodo bird all across corporate America. And Treasury Sec Snow doesn't thinks that is such a bad thing."
USA320Pilot comments: Yesterday United deferred a July 15 pension payment of over $70 million. In addition, the Rocky Mountain News reported "the company hasn't decided whether to defer a total of $525.6 million in contributions to its plans due between Sept. 15 and Oct. 15 of this year" (click here for story).
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
kt,ktflyhome said:
No where, not in any language Summer or winter was the Reserve system to be implemented the same time as Pref bid. That is what AFA proposed, but managment never agreed. Pref Bid WILL NOT CREATE MORE BLOCKS. Its very nature was "cost savings". It eliminates f/a jobs.
Those who were senior reserve would now be pushed further down the list, NOT UP.
No. Management is not asking for reserves on mainline to rotate with MAA. They are not asking for block holders to rotate either. What USA330 is proposing is having a rotating reserve system with block holders. There are 20% reserves that would probably opt for this, however the 80% blockholders would not. Just as majority of reserves on mainline would not opt to go to MAA to rotate. That's the analogy.
Pitbull: You never answered my question about "staggering reserves". Also, if the preferrential bidding would eliminate f/a's jobs and push Senior reserves further down the list, then WHY would AFA EVEN propose this to the company?????PITbull said:
And based on what you just posted, regarding the BH's and RSV"s, I am prone to think that A330 is correct in that our MEC is really not all that concerned about RSV's, especially if most will be gone.
When it comes down to it, we really provide only the ability for BH's to take vacations and call off sick. :angry:
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Kt,
I am going to post this for the last time. Because I have written this many many times before.
AFA DID NOT PROPOSE PREF BID.
These proposals were ALL management, including reserve and sick, LTD decreases, 5% deferral, Min day rig no cap no ceiling, OJI Sal continuence decreased, medical increases.
NOT ONE OF THESE ITEMS WAS PROPSOSED BY AFA. Do you remember winter proposal? It was a process that took 4 days.
However, the f/a populatlion by majority RATIFIED. And guess what? 3,800 didn't bother to vote!
Very easy for folks now who live this nightmare to look to others for blame.
Remember I said this on this board:
Every productivity enhancement that is ratified by the employees will cost jobs.
To be very specific, the company is looking to increase the monthly flying option to everyone at 99 hours. Just look at the pilots proposals. The pilots proposed 90 and the company came back at 95.
That will create job losses for both labor groups. And it will be huge.
You'll fly alright. You won't be able to stop until you drop. And the rigg is proposing to change as well.
And since you brought it up, if blockholders didn't call in sick and didn't take vacation, there wouldn't be a need for the company to have reserves at all now would there? If you think about it, the reasons why the sick policies are in place and are so strict is to prevent employees from calling in sick. Then they can eliminate even more reserves.
For FYI, a staggared reserve system is that 30% reserves bid to begin their month on the 15th through the 15th vs. the 1st through the 31st. This way, there is coverage in the beginning and end of each month where scheduling always has the hardest times covering. This can take the reserve system back to seniority driven too.
I suggest everyone just stop splitting hairs and support one another. Our lives are about to change.
I am going to post this for the last time. Because I have written this many many times before.
AFA DID NOT PROPOSE PREF BID.
These proposals were ALL management, including reserve and sick, LTD decreases, 5% deferral, Min day rig no cap no ceiling, OJI Sal continuence decreased, medical increases.
NOT ONE OF THESE ITEMS WAS PROPSOSED BY AFA. Do you remember winter proposal? It was a process that took 4 days.
However, the f/a populatlion by majority RATIFIED. And guess what? 3,800 didn't bother to vote!
Very easy for folks now who live this nightmare to look to others for blame.
Remember I said this on this board:
Every productivity enhancement that is ratified by the employees will cost jobs.
To be very specific, the company is looking to increase the monthly flying option to everyone at 99 hours. Just look at the pilots proposals. The pilots proposed 90 and the company came back at 95.
That will create job losses for both labor groups. And it will be huge.
You'll fly alright. You won't be able to stop until you drop. And the rigg is proposing to change as well.
And since you brought it up, if blockholders didn't call in sick and didn't take vacation, there wouldn't be a need for the company to have reserves at all now would there? If you think about it, the reasons why the sick policies are in place and are so strict is to prevent employees from calling in sick. Then they can eliminate even more reserves.
For FYI, a staggared reserve system is that 30% reserves bid to begin their month on the 15th through the 15th vs. the 1st through the 31st. This way, there is coverage in the beginning and end of each month where scheduling always has the hardest times covering. This can take the reserve system back to seniority driven too.
I suggest everyone just stop splitting hairs and support one another. Our lives are about to change.
PitBull Said:
I suggest everyone just stop splitting hairs and support one another.
Our lives are about to change.
SpinDoc replies:
Heh. Heh. You're correct. Every employee at US is about to
have their life changed, and if the unions play ball, they
will lose a few people; however, those that remain will
be better off when the company starts making a profit
and pays profit sharing bonuses.
Remember kids, don't let the unions make your decisions
for you because you may just wind up unemployed.
I suggest everyone just stop splitting hairs and support one another.
Our lives are about to change.
SpinDoc replies:
Heh. Heh. You're correct. Every employee at US is about to
have their life changed, and if the unions play ball, they
will lose a few people; however, those that remain will
be better off when the company starts making a profit
and pays profit sharing bonuses.
Remember kids, don't let the unions make your decisions
for you because you may just wind up unemployed.
Since you seemed some damn self righteous and plain ignorant let me explain the facts:SpinDoc said:
The unions ARE the employees, Duh.
Also, we are anything but kids, and the ones acting like children are the ones running the place treating employees as spoiled kids instead of treating them like grown adults and letting them alone and making the business work instead of placing employees in straight jackets on top of constant punishment.
Kids are the people running the place because adults sure in the hell don't act like this!
The monster is not the employees/unions, it’s the people who believe absolute and abusive power is the way to make a business work.
Whip a dog a few times and he will bite you, whip a human and expect more than a bite to come of it.
USAirBoyA330
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 724
- 0
I didn't meant to cause such a stir. I just think the blockholders have always looked out for themselves and really don't give two flying flips what goes on with the reserves. I see it every day. If they thought they could keep the "bidsheet" by throwing us Reserves out to the wolves I bet they would consider it. We are not unified and I don't know how to bring AFA together as one. It has always been blockholders vs. RSV. I wish it wasn't the case but.....it is.
I totally agree. I am sorry Pitbull had to resort to yelliing to prove her point. God forbid that anyother flight attendant disagree or ask questions.USAirBoyA330 said:
Pitbull: Sorry to say, but over the months of seeing your posts, you do not come across as having very much sympathy for Reserves. All you ever say in response, is THAT IS WHAT THE MEMEBERSHIP VOTED ON.!!!! dUH, I think we all know this by now. Just What is AFA going to do about it????
From your previous statement(s) I guess after 11 years, I should be happy to have a job....thanks to sick calls and vacations from the Blockholders.
But I must remind myself as you have stated, we are only 21% of the enitre 5200 active Flight Attendants. Guess, we really mean nothing. :down: :down: :down:
We are NOT UNIFIED> Who is splitting whose Hair??????
:angry:You know exactly what the answer is to that question. AFA's bylaws are pretty clear that majority rules. Reserves are a minority, so unless blockholders become sympathetic to the plight of the reserve, you're pretty much stuck.ktflyhome said:
It's a problem commonly referred to as "tyranny of the majority." It is, in fact, why there is a Bill of Rights. AFA has no counterpart.
But what would you expect your union rep to do? Teddy's sure not in a position to act on your behalf in negotiations if you're in the minority.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
USAirboy,USAirBoyA330 said:
That is not true. We have never been split. You don't hear blockholders sitting bad mouthing reserves like you hear reserves bad mouthing line holders. Do the reserves give 2 Cents about MAA f/as? I haven't heard one reserve speak about MAA and those f/as that lost their mainline job. Did the reserves sell out the lower end of the f/as who now either go to the street or MAA?
Its getting out of hand, and downright fed up with it. Things will change because they have to change.
The senior top out employees are the ones being targetted. THAT INCLUDES 14 YEARS AND UP, RESERVES IN THAT RANGE ALONG WITH LINEHOLDERS.
Wake up folks....managment doesn't want top out employees any longer NOR do they want to attract any folks to stay longer than 10 years. If you are an older reserve you are a liability to the company because of your potential to have health problems.
STOP PITTING ONE AGAINST THE OTHER. YOUR UNION BROTHER/SISTER IS NOT THE ENEMY HERE...its the coprorate thinking and the mighty profit dollars and what drives that.
Why aren't you folks thinking that if the company gets all they want, and projects their profits close to $1 billion in 2008, the senior managment has the propensity to all become very wealthy, while you on the other hand may lose your home, retirement, bankrupt all in this process.
Your focus should not be on what you percieve the blockholder is or isn't getting or not, it should be on how we negotiate to maximize our returns and share in EQUALLY the profits and not tied to any concession %, but rather equal sharing with no profit caps.
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
"Pref Bid" has been put on hold by the company.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Exactly what I and uSAirboy330 have been saying. Who really cares.?? The statement made by Our MEC is that they want to discuss Reserve issues and sick.
I frankly think "sick" maybe modified, but reserves are in the #### house. As was stated by Pitbull, reserves are only 21% of the 5200 active, which means we only contitute 1092 of the total.
Guess, when it comes down to it....we are just peanuts. Doesn't really matter, although I will state this again, those active reserves WILL be voting this time around if it comes to this.
Pitbull has stated...It will be painful...Yes indeed it will.
I frankly think "sick" maybe modified, but reserves are in the #### house. As was stated by Pitbull, reserves are only 21% of the 5200 active, which means we only contitute 1092 of the total.
Guess, when it comes down to it....we are just peanuts. Doesn't really matter, although I will state this again, those active reserves WILL be voting this time around if it comes to this.
Pitbull has stated...It will be painful...Yes indeed it will.
