Afa Meeting

[PITbull]

mweiss,

The MEC voted to come to the table...

ONLY BECAUSE OF THE RESERVE SYSTEM AND SICK POLICIES.There was no other choice to fix it we have to go to the table. WE risk opening everything else!

If you are trying to piss me off, it is working. I resent anyone who sits and makes statments about who and how and what the union leadership represents.

THIS ENTIRE F/A BODY IS IN JEOPARDY BECASUE OF ITS PURSUIT TO FIX THE RESERVE SYSTEM.

Everyone has placed their pensions on the line by opening this agreement. This is a huge sacrifice and risk we are taking. It will come with a price.

I am appauled at the posters who think otherwise.

 

[mweiss]

Sheesh, PITbull, calm down. So I misunderstood what the MEC's motivations were. If that pisses you off, you need some anger management classes.

The rest of the post still is valid. You have said many times that AFA's bylaws are majority-based. That there are often unintended consequences of such a structure isn't something to get defensive over.

 

[PITbull]

Absoulutely, majority rules the day...

This MEC and all f/as are committed to fixing the sick and reserve system. Why? Because blockholders may become rserves and with furloughs in the horizon, most certainly will.

I am not going to sit and argue with a couple of posters who do not understand the entire process but only their neck of the woods.

I have particularly much on my plate to sit and continue to educate posters who refuse to see the entire picture.

The local 40 office calls are ALL ABOUT RESERVE ISSUES AND MAA AND VIOLATIONS TO OUR AGREEMENTS OVER THESE ISSUES.

I will not lend an ear to hear folks complaining how their union doesn't care. Union leaders are the voices of the membership, and the leadership has heard loud and clear.

Nuff said.

 

[ktflyhome]

Pit bull: Where is your mind these days?? Of course BH don't bad mouth reserves. Why the Hell would they? And what does MAA have to do with any Mainline Reserve. We didn't hire on with MAA. They, are in our minds, a separate enitity that none of us want to think about. Furthermore, Why would/should we???

And as far as MAA flight attendants "losing" there jobs....well isn't that what SENORITY is all about. I keep seeing you post this. Yes, a job is a job, but since we are a UNION, that is how it works...right??? So why on earth would mainline Reserves be concerned about what goes on with MAA. Those folks CHOSE, I repeat CHOSE to go with MAA. Nobody forced them to.

I chose to become a Mainline F/A with USAir as so did our other 1091 reserves.

 

[ktflyhome]

Absoulutely, majority rules the day...

This MEC and all f/as are committed to fixing the sick and reserve system. Why? Because blockholders may become rserves and with furloughs in the horizon, most certainly will.

I am not going to sit and argue with a couple of posters who do not understand the entire process but only their neck of the woods.

I have particularly much on my plate to sit and continue to educate posters who refuse to see the entire picture.

The local 40 office calls are ALL ABOUT RESERVE ISSUES AND MAA AND VIOLATIONS TO OUR AGREEMENTS OVER THESE ISSUES.

I will not lend an ear to hear folks complaining how their union doesn't care. Union leaders are the voices of the membership, and the leadership has heard loud and clear.

Nuff said.

So, this is all starting to make sense now. With the strong possibility that block holders will become reserves...it is now time to address the reserve situation. And for all of us who fail to comprehend this in our "neck of the woods", we should not question the agenda????

That's fine, I will be sure to pass on the logic and intention of the Company and our Union to my fellow co-workers.

As far as the sick situation is::: Who benefits least from the current policy??? Blockholders!!!??????

Blockholders....soon to be Reserves will surely hate not being paid for vacation. I guess it is time to negotiate with Lakefield after all.

 

[PITbull]

Pit bull: Where is your mind these days?? Of course BH don't bad mouth reserves. Why the Hell would they? And what does MAA have to do with any Mainline Reserve. We didn't hire on with MAA. They, are in our minds, a separate enitity that none of us want to think about. Furthermore, Why would/should we???

And as far as MAA flight attendants "losing" there jobs....well isn't that what SENORITY is all about. I keep seeing you post this. Yes, a job is a job, but since we are a UNION, that is how it works...right??? So why on earth would mainline Reserves be concerned about what goes on with MAA. Those folks CHOSE, I repeat CHOSE to go with MAA. Nobody forced them to.

I chose to become a Mainline F/A with USAir as so did our other 1091 reserves.

kt,

Hmm, please read above your quote...I believe you may just understand how blockholders feel about reserves.

Thanks for introducing me to your world of "egocentrism". Like you said why should reserves give a damn anyway about MAA or any other group. Hell, who cares about Line holders they get to be lineholders because of seniority right? Just curious, if you went to LGA or PHL could you hold a line?

BTW, the Involuntarily furloughed f/as CHOSE to come to mainline, but now find themselves on the street. So will many more in our group.

Arrogance will win over no hearts on mainline, rest assured.

 

[PITbull]

kt,

I see you posted again...

The new reserve system is 8 months old....if there wasn't concession #3, there would have been NO opportunity to fix this system.

If you read your e-lines, we lost the aribtration. An Agenda you say???? I think not.

 

[ktflyhome]

kt,

Hmm, please read above your quote...I believe you may just understand how blockholders feel about reserves.

Thanks for introducing me to your world of "egocentrism". Like you said why should reserves give a damn anyway about MAA or any other group. Hell, who cares about Line holders they get to be lineholders because of seniority right? Just curious, if you went to LGA or PHL could you hold a line?

Pitbull, I am FAR from egocentric. That is a word NO one I know, that knows me would EVER use. If voicing my concerns, questions and opinions make me egocentric, in your mind, so be it. This only alientates me and my support of my Union Rep. Not all things are your way...just as you have said many time before.... this contract was voted on by the majority and MAJORITY RULES. Deal with it. We have and are. Like it or not.



Furthermore, I would not consider myself any better or any less if I were a Lineholder or Reserve, I would still do my best at my job. Only difference would be my paycheck.

Would I be able to hold a line in LGA, probably and then my cost of living would be higher and I don't have any contacts there.

In PHL....it comes and it goes...why chance the commute and the paycheck/cost of living!!!

The only F/A's I talk to who would chase a block are those ASSURED that they

would have one.

Of course Line holders get to be line holders because of Seniority. Difference is, Reserves on Mainline HAVE NO SENIORITY.

 

[mweiss]

An Agenda you say???? I think not.

That's not entirely fair. It seems clear that the blockholders do have an agenda. That's not to say that AFA LEC/MEC have an agenda of their own (lack of evidence precludes any conclusion in this regard), but clearly the blockholders are looking out for...the blockholders.

 

[PITbull]

kt,

The reserve seniority will return. But I am too pissed off to speak to it. I need to leave this thread.


mweiss,

Some reeserves have an agenda too, and that is to pit one against the other over there lack of seniority to hold a line, and banter about this distinction.

Kt has the opportunity to become a line holder in another base, but CHOOSES not to. For whatever reasons they want to give.

The whole debate here is over seniority. She recognizes the importance of seniority when it comes to not caring about the INvoluntary furloughees who chose to go to MAA then be unemployed, just as she chooses not to commute to be a lineholder.

Its all relative. I was hoping she could see that as she presented her position and actually, by sheer accident, made my point.

 

[ktflyhome]

Well, lets just see how many Lineholders will transfer to another base if they know they will be reserves. And as far as Reserves having their own agenda. The only agenda they have is making a decent paycheck in line with the number of years on the job, that we feel, rightfully are entitled to. We "career reserves" know better than to pit ourselves against the Lineholders. We are use to it. Being a reserve Flight Attendant for 10-15 years is no different than a Gate Agent being put on part time after 20-25 years.

And just as you think we should think about and consider MAA and their job losses to mainline, we mainline reserves should be thought of as well.

My posisition is no accident. I have been merely stating concerns, asking questions and voicing thoughts on what I hear from many of my fellow co-workers as well as my own.

Pitbull, you are the one who has taken great offense to this, not me. I realized after November that I am only a number and a liability. Whether I have a job with U tomorrow or 10 months from now, makes no difference.

 

[PITbull]

kt,

The liability is not you in your seniority as a reserve. The company views the blockholder as the true liability to the over all plan. Why? Because they are topped-out along with the 14 year reserve.

The company stole more cost savings from the reserve system and sick policy than originally negotiated. That is why the reserve system went to arbitration. WE just happened to lose the case as the arbitrator sought more the savings to the company than to the quality of life of the employee.

 

[USAirBoyA330]

OK...lets just step back and take a breath. Gees, all this fighting. PITBull, I am telling you what I feel and what the reserve general population on the line feels. I am sorry that it doesn't match what you think we should feel. When you sit in the crew room and have to educate line holders on this new reserve system almost a year after it's been in effect ... you just shake your head and wonder. They say "wow, no more seniority." Or you sit in training talking about OPR at your table and the table next to you says..."Gawsh, they still have OPR...I thought they did away with that years ago." Of course all over 20 year F/A's saying this.
You see where they couldn't care less about anything that goes on with reserves until it effects them. I mean if I hear "I did my time on RSV" one more time I will scream. Well, you didn't "do your time" under this horrible system. I wish we could find a way to understand what important to the RSV and Blockholder and support one another but, it just seems that the blockholding F/A's only care about us if they are going to fall back on RSV. We Reserves care about BLOCKHOLDER issues because hopefully one day we will get to work under that system. It's a one way street here it seems. And don't accuse me of "dividing the group" just because I point out the rift. We need to do something to fix it instead of fighting over who is right.

 

[firstamendment]

Pitbull

I know there are alot of stresses, but step back..it's getting to you. It's ok..just remember this site is a pool of emotion. We have all experienced this. I may not agree with you on everything, but I am very glad to see a fight where this reserve and sick policy is concerned. I would like to invite blockholders to go to the reserve screen and just look at how pitiful it is for the reserves. Most don't reach 71...if that. I am a blockholder but became curious. I couldn't believe what I saw. I was shocked.

Question: Knowing that getting rid of that system will come at a price, why not get the company to include the emb-170 MDA f/a with us in exchange for some negotiated cut or whatever is negotiated (again a cost to us)? Since the company wants to buy all those 170's, why not make it a mainline aircraft. At 150 or so of those suckers times 2 f/a's (worked f28, which was smaller), that would help some with furloughs and senority. Now I'm not a numbers cruncher. I would be willing to take a cut if we f/a could truely be a part of growth of the co. Right now that is just on the emb 170.. I don't trust that they will grow mainline. Wouldn't this, although $$ painful, help us collectively?

Did you understand anything I said? Not sure if I do to be honest. Any thoughts.

Pitbull, it is definitely good to take breaks from here. Please do what you need to keep the focus. Keep up the good work.

First

 

[NAPAUS]

OK...lets just step back and take a breath. Gees, all this fighting. PITBull, I am telling you what I feel and what the reserve general population on the line feels. I am sorry that it doesn't match what you think we should feel. When you sit in the crew room and have to educate line holders on this new reserve system almost a year after it's been in effect ... you just shake your head and wonder. They say "wow, no more seniority." Or you sit in training talking about OPR at your table and the table next to you says..."Gawsh, they still have OPR...I thought they did away with that years ago." Of course all over 20 year F/A's saying this.
You see where they couldn't care less about anything that goes on with reserves until it effects them. I mean if I hear "I did my time on RSV" one more time I will scream. Well, you didn't "do your time" under this horrible system. I wish we could find a way to understand what important to the RSV and Blockholder and support one another but, it just seems that the blockholding F/A's only care about us if they are going to fall back on RSV. We Reserves care about BLOCKHOLDER issues because hopefully one day we will get to work under that system. It's a one way street here it seems. And don't accuse me of "dividing the group" just because I point out the rift. We need to do something to fix it instead of fighting over who is right.

:angry: Here we go again, lumping all the 20 yr plus f/as who you obviously dislike. I am one of them, actually almost 25 yrs...I DO, As DO many other people, understand the situation and are disgusted by the current reserve system. I want it changed...ASAP..and if one of the results of re-negotiating is changing reserve and sick policy, then GREAT!! PITBULL is one of the few "leaders" we have who really gets it!! StOP shooting the messenger, and while your at it..stop bitchin and whinnin about senior people...guess what- someday ULL BE OLD TOO!!! Then U"LL get what its like to face ageism!!!!

I'm not on reserve, and you know what, if i was suddenly faced with being on it- ID QUIT! That is always the option. This is a job, and if someone can't handle what it entails, then the option is to leave and move on. I feel confident AFA will negotiate a much more equitable, fair, senority based reserve system, that will allow ALL reserves to get their time in and make a descent living. Hoping for the BEST for ALL during this difficult and troubling time....

PEACE