AFA Labor Relations thread 6/17-

[Travelpro72]

Appreciated but it still has nothing to do with flight attendants paired with the pilots. If we weren't the flying being moved "for the pilots" would be done by the current Philly base. It's pretty simple. What's next? Can't make money in Philly or can't justify a base there? Might as well close up shop. Good Lord. If that is the case then there is NO HOPE (some more caps) for this place. Oh and those secondary lines going to January of 1999 in CLT will be enough for some senior people to transfer. F/a's need numbers and the proof is in the pudding boys and girls.

 

[flybynite]

Appreciated but it still has nothing to do with flight attendants paired with the pilots. If we weren't the flying being moved "for the pilots" would be done by the current Philly base. It's pretty simple. What's next? Can't make money in Philly or can't justify a base there? Might as well close up shop. Good Lord. If that is the case then there is NO HOPE (some more caps) for this place. Oh and those secondary lines going to January of 1999 in CLT will be enough for some senior people to transfer. F/a's need numbers and the proof is in the pudding boys and girls.

The company has moved the equipment....we all move with it.

Pilots as well as flight attendants.

We all follow the flying time.

I'm not going to say I think it's necessary. Not by any means. But Tempe is the one you should be shooting rockets at. They've been looking at trying to close the East bases since they walked on the property. They've closed 3 already. What else do you need to know?

Wake up..........

 

[Travelpro72]

Wake up? Look, the company has moved TIME. Not airplanes. The same a/c are working the same flights in and out of PHL. What the company has done is screwed around with the pilots with base closures. It has caused a rift in left seat, right seat and a/c type per base. Look at the latest CBS message in cats today. It CLEARLY states that PHL gained 28 f/a bidding positions because of increases in the A319 and E190 Captain slots. If f/a's were not co-paired this would not be an issue. As the example states a gain the base was a major LOSS in time due to pilot issues. The metal isn't leaving the base but the time is. I don't understand why some people don't get this. There is NO OTHER reason for displacements except the "me-too" making it happen. Why should the f/a's get screwed out of block time that is PILOT time? We can still fly the aircraft flying in and out of the base. Simple truth.

 

[Al Legheny]

Wake up? Look, the company has moved TIME. Not airplanes. The same a/c are working the same flights in and out of PHL. What the company has done is screwed around with the pilots with base closures. It has caused a rift in left seat, right seat and a/c type per base. Look at the latest CBS message in cats today. It CLEARLY states that PHL gained 28 f/a bidding positions because of increases in the A319 and E190 Captain slots. If f/a's were not co-paired this would not be an issue. As the example states a gain the base was a major LOSS in time due to pilot issues. The metal isn't leaving the base but the time is. I don't understand why some people don't get this. There is NO OTHER reason for displacements except the "me-too" making it happen. Why should the f/a's get screwed out of block time that is PILOT time? We can still fly the aircraft flying in and out of the base. Simple truth.

I do not know the F/A contract but it appears to me that the 900lb gorilla that no one is mentioning is duty rigs. If you separate from the pilots you will loose the duty rigs associated with those trips. You will either have to negotiate new ones or take what the company gives you.

I would strongly suggest before the decision is made to give up duty rigs that your negotiating commitee have answers to questions like:

What are the duty rigs going to be?
Will F/A's stay in the same hotels as piliots?
Will the company guarantee some minimum trip type? I hear that have about 80% 4 day ttrips in Phoenix, at least for the pilots. Look at the Phoenix trips if you want to see how this will work. If you like them fine. If not then I would thinik you would want to get some hard and fast rules for the contract before you accept what is being offered.

If the me too clause goes back to 1962, then you should at least use this as a huge lever against the comapny and you should be able to get a lot for it. It has to be worth way more to the company than $10/ an hour our they wouldn't be considering it.

From my very limited perspective there is not nearly enough information on the table to allow people to make a decision on this one way or another.

 

[Travelpro72]

I do not know the F/A contract but it appears to me that the 900lb gorilla that no one is mentioning is duty rigs. If you separate from the pilots you will loose the duty rigs associated with those trips. You will either have to negotiate new ones or take what the company gives you.

I would strongly suggest before the decision is made to give up duty rigs that your negotiating commitee have answers to questions like:

What are the duty rigs going to be?
Will F/A's stay in the same hotels as piliots?
Will the company guarantee some minimum trip type? I hear that have about 80% 4 day ttrips in Phoenix, at least for the pilots. Look at the Phoenix trips if you want to see how this will work. If you like them fine. If not then I would thinik you would want to get some hard and fast rules for the contract before you accept what is being offered.

If the me too clause goes back to 1962, then you should at least use this as a huge lever against the comapny and you should be able to get a lot for it. It has to be worth way more to the company than $10/ an hour our they wouldn't be considering it.

From my very limited perspective there is not nearly enough information on the table to allow people to make a decision on this one way or another.

One of the biggest rumors out on the line is that the company is the one who wants the f/a's split from the pilots. WRONG The company themselves found it to be more productive for ummmm themselves. That said, and take it for what it's worth Mike Flores stated the JNC has already negotiated better rigs than the pilots currently have coupled with same hotels and min day. As for rigs...well the pilot group can thank themselves for that one. They GAVE the rigs away and that is the truth. This debacle we see going on today concerning flight attendants and displacements is nothing more than the f/a time being tied to the pilots. People can create many a reason but THAT is the fact. If we were not tied to the pilots it wouldn't matter if the time for THEM left or not. The base isn't shrinking as far as operations but for who's flyiing the equipment.

 

[ebwgs]

. That said, and take it for what it's worth Mike Flores stated the JNC has already negotiated better rigs than the pilots currently have coupled with same hotels and min day.

Travelpro, have you seen these "already negotiated better rigs than the pilots" or is it mere hearsay? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have yet to see any tentatively agreed to contractual details in writing. If they're out there I'd like to see them.

 

[Furloughd4now]

UNION MEETING IN CHARLOTTE!

There will be a Council 89 Union Meeting on Monday, July 19, 2010 at the Charlotte Douglas International Airport, Airport Conference Room, upper level Auditorium. We scheduled two sessions, 9:30 AM to 12:00 PM and 2:00 PM to 4:30 PM. The Agenda will be a Negotiations Up-date.

This will be an informational meeting not a roundtable meeting. There will be an additional informational meeting scheduled in August (time and date to be announced). Several roundtable discussions will also be scheduled in each base once the contract has been completed by the JNC.

 

[Travelpro72]

Travelpro, have you seen these "already negotiated better rigs than the pilots" or is it mere hearsay? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have yet to see any tentatively agreed to contractual details in writing. If they're out there I'd like to see them.

I'm just going by what I have read in one of the MEC's E-lines. Like I said, "Take it for what it's worth". I don't believe much of what I hear and only half of what I read.

 

[flybynite]

I'm just going by what I have read in one of the MEC's E-lines. Like I said, "Take it for what it's worth". I don't believe much of what I hear and only half of what I read.

After what you said in your last post I had to check my mail. And yes, you're correct, the JNC has improved rigs and a few other things. But it wasn't specific. Grr....

Now after saying that....because of the "Me Too" we've just negotiated better rigs for the pilots. The "me/too" goes both ways. Which furthers the pilots along in their negotiations.

That's a high five all the way around.

 

[Onestep2flt]

After what you said in your last post I had to check my mail. And yes, you're correct, the JNC has improved rigs and a few other things. But it wasn't specific. Grr....

Now after saying that....because of the "Me Too" we've just negotiated better rigs for the pilots. The "me/too" goes both ways. Which furthers the pilots along in their negotiations.

That's a high five all the way around.

Now you just have to put a safety net there. Any changes made that are better than what you have you get. If what you already have is better you keep that. I think getting completely rid of something that has value for you is not a good idea. Tweaking the language to make sure it does not shoot you in the foot is smart negotiations.

That is very good if indeed there are improved rigs already agreed upon. However, if your pilots agreed to something better that was an improvement to your "better" rigs would you not want that instead? This will not happen if you completely do away with your me-toos. Again, it is all in the way the language is crafted. While some things as currently in your contract may be hurting you, I think it is safe to say there are some things that were improvements that you may never have obtained otherwise.

I have no reason to be here except for the fact that I have friends at your company that I believe are being taken advantage of. I do not wish to argue with anyone here as your passion is in the right place. You guys are trying to present ideas that will make it better in the future for all flight attendants. What I will continue to say is that before making any major changes to anything consider the ramifications that it may lead to. I understand that some of you are in the mindset that your me-too language is the sole reason behind your displacements. If you never had them all would be fine. However, look at the contract as a whole. Sure, you can negotiate better everything from your pilots. You might even convince the company you should be paid more than them! But, if you have a tool in pace that may be flawed but has helped you out in the past, Why do you want to get rid of it? Just tweak that language so it is only a win for you with no loss if your language is stronger. This to me is a no brainer.

I will say this one more time. The me-too and co-pairing are not exclusive. They do not need to be married. They can co-mingle very happily. It just has to have language that spells it out. This is your fight and I am just watching. I just don't want to see you get rid of something that just needs a little grease. If a quart of berries has one bad one you don't throw out the whole quart. You just rid yourself of the one bad berry. If you believe that co-pairing is the bad berry then get rid of it. I don't know if that is wrong or right for all of you. I just don't want to see you get rid of what I see as a very useful tool. It has been said on here many times that once something is gone you will never get it back.

 

[lgwcalling]

The first thing you need to get under your hat is....the sun does not rise and shine in Philadelphia. And apparently Tempe thinks the same way too.

I also believe that with the next Governor of Pennsylvania (either (D) Onoroto or (R) Corbett) coming from Allegheny County (IOW - Pittsburgh) the company is probably thinking that they're not going to get a lot of help on the state level for anything that they might like to do in Philadelphia......thus, the run to pro-business, pro-US Airways Charlotte, NC.

 

[aptboeses]

I also believe that with the next Governor of Pennsylvania (either (D) Onoroto or (R) Corbett) coming from Allegheny County (IOW - Pittsburgh) the company is probably thinking that they're not going to get a lot of help on the state level for anything that they might like to do in Philadelphia......thus, the run to pro-business, pro-US Airways Charlotte, NC.

I highly doubt that's the case. It looks more like a relocation of assets to where they would be most profitable. FCO and CDG are both full of connecting customers out of PHL. It costs less to connect a customer through CLT than PHL. By connecting a customer through CLT they save money and free up seats for O&D customers out of PHL. Not to mention they are connecting two cities that already have service so start up costs are minimal.

Political might really isn't necessary for anything that US needs out of PHL. The new runway that will be built has already been approved and there really isn't anything major that needs to be done.

As for where the sun rises and shines - It doesn't rise or shine in CLT, PHL, DCA or PHX. It does rise and shine wherever the most money is to be made.

 

[cynic]

I also believe that with the next Governor of Pennsylvania (either (D) Onoroto or (R) Corbett) coming from Allegheny County (IOW - Pittsburgh) the company is probably thinking that they're not going to get a lot of help on the state level for anything that they might like to do in Philadelphia......thus, the run to pro-business, pro-US Airways Charlotte, NC.

The new mayor in Philly has been far more attentive than the previous administration was and you can see positive changes at the airport. The governor is irrelevant to the operation there.

 

[VAflyGal]

Guess what, folks? Only 34 people who wanted to transfer to CLT for September were granted transfers. The rest were denied. This while there are still people who are displaced want to return to PHL and DCA. THE COMPANY IS FORCING JUNIOR PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR HOME BASE AT COMPANY EXPENSE WHILE DENYING OTHERS WHO VOLUNTARILY WANT TO GO THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO.

WHYYYYY?!?!?!?!?

 

[Travelpro72]

WHY? Because they can. I LOVE our relations with management.