AFA Labor Relations thread 6/17-

[lgwcalling]

The 89 displaced F/As should all call in sick for one week beginning 6/28. Let's see how US Airways does in PHL that week. Apparently they're not needed in that base any longer. Me thinks that there will be lots of cancellations.

 

[AstroLounge]

The 89 displaced F/As should all call in sick for one week beginning 6/28. Let's see how US Airways does in PHL that week. Apparently they're not needed in that base any longer. Me thinks that there will be lots of cancellations.

The 89 will NOT even have to call in sick.........THERE WILL BE PROBLEMS. Chalk it up to a Holiday Month and Five weeks in the month. PEAK Summertime month for People and their families (oops! I mentioned People......and to think "they have a life away from the airline" ). The Reserves have been treated like Ragdolls pulled in EVERY direction at every whim by scheduling......no sense giving them a schedule when their Days Off are continually reassigned and they are forced to be on CONTINUOUS DUTY for the whole month. Many Blkholders don't understand the RESERVE requirement......duty times/ETB restrictions/days Off and the continual Scheduling Jerkfest that many are thrown into. The DISPLACEMENT is simply pouring 'Salt in the Womb' and THIS TIME, I can see it backfiring on The Company B-I-G Time. With multiple Base Closures this Year alone, the necessity for many to be on a horrid Reserve System in itself, the neccesity To Commute with all the related expenditures, and now a Bump and Flush Displacement involving PHL and DCA?! The sick calls WILL BEGIN well before the last weekend of the month...........many will be Taking Off their Wings.........'They've had enough'. Being FLEXIBLE for this Job is one thing..........what is being asked of them at this point is SLAVE LABOR at it's finest. And the salary just DOESN"T CUT IT Anymore, and especially on Reserve.

 

[safety stud]

Folks, you have been screaming for change for years. There is not one person who works for LCC as a F/A that hasn't. The problem is the change will come and not all of you will like the change. To make effective change to your working environment you must look at what is best for the long term majority of its people. That means that everyone won't like everything that would be brought out for a vote.

Each of you will have personal items or agendas you want within the COB. There is no such thing as having it completely your way with this airline. Therefore you must look at the big picture, the long term effects of it, and how it will effect you personally. If you can live with it, vote for it. If not don't... Simple.

The M-T clause, has and always will be a contention of the contract. Should you keep it... Renegotiate the parts you want to keep...or dump it entirely. These are all things.... I am happy to say I don't have to deal with anymore. However you do... Think long and hard on your decisions when a contract comes up for your vote. It has been a long time to be under the BK contract you are still on. Betterment is more condusive to your quality of life than stagnation, because you don't have the BALLS to stand on you own two feet.

It is a different way of life than it was 30 years ago, when skeds where developed on paper and not computers. Things have modernized and therefore have evolved into the new century. Sure there may be instances where things get out of hand, but they have always happened and will continue to do so. In the airline industry there is no such thing as perfection. You can only do you best to make what you have, and make it work to your advantage. Use the upcoming contract to yiour advantage.... Just for you... The F/A.... Not the pilot... Not the mechanic... Not the agent... Not the baggage handler... Not the Supervisor....

Just my opinion...

 

[FlyOnWall]

Galley Princess- That's actually incorrect about everyone being on or near A-scale. About 40% of the affected F/As are on b-scale (with three or less years to go) and the rest are on the first or second year of a-scale depending on how many and how long their furloughs were. It's also worth noting that the majority of these F/As live in PHL, which is rare for that base. If anything, these are the F/As the company would least like to rid itself of.

The reference to the "me-too" clauses are not to the bumping rights but to the reason for the displacement to begin with. Most of the flying being moved to CLT is actually flown through PHL. The F/As are required to go there because they are following where the aircraft are based. The 757 pilot base (no domestic one in PHL) and the movement of LGA and BOS Airbus flying are the reason pilots are in CLT, the F/As are being sent there for no reason other than "me-too".

 

[Furloughd4now]

We have VF? I though we only had VFLR? If so, what are their bumping rights? If they are VFLR, they are junior to everyone and their callback rights are limited. I was very confused about that..... Can someone clarify?

 

[Onestep2flt]

We have VF? I though we only had VFLR? If so, what are their bumping rights? If they are VFLR, they are junior to everyone and their callback rights are limited. I was very confused about that..... Can someone clarify?

I don't know the answer to your question as I only know what my friends tell me, but I am curious to the answer to this as well. It has been brought up several times here but I am wondering now if we are all on the same page with this. Are there still people on voluntary leave?

As to the me-too issues in an earlier post, I don't believe not having the me-too's would change the situation any for displacements. If the aircraft are going to Charlotte it means that the time that flight attendants have to fly is going there too. I think you better talk to someone in your marketing department as it has been pointed out here that they control where aircraft go not the pilots. Even if you flew separate trips from the pilots the amount of flying time in each base would remain the same. I don't know exactly how it works but I would gather a lot has to do with the origination of the aircraft as well as where it stays overnight. Of course from what you guys say, they also have tons of overnights in bases with crews from other cities so maybe my logic is flawed. It would seem that I would not want someone from Philly overnighting in DC ideally if I had maximized my scheduling of aircraft. Wow, the more I think about it the more I really don't know what is going on with my friends at your company!

 

[beachboy]

There are two sets of VF groups. The VF-Extended which rolled VFs 1-9 into one group which retained senority and then the VFLR. The VFLR group have limited recall rights and lost senority.

 

[StewGuy86]

You are correct, BeachBoy. I'm one of the FAs on the VF (VF2 in Dec. 2002) which did NOT involve a payout. If I were recalled and came back I would do so at my original hire date. For the record, I'm not here to debate the merits or evils of that, but simply to clarify things for the ones who are confused about the whole VF issue. As you mentioned, there are two different types of voluntary furlough people out there...those of us on the extended furlough who took no money and would return with full seniority, and those who did take the buyout and - if recalled - would come back at the bottom of the list. I don't know the total numbers of each group, but I'm pretty sure my group alone was initially a couple hundred or more.

When they did the last East recall I got a letter from the company stating that if they went through the entire invol list (which they did) they would then have to come to our pool of FA's (which they also did). I had to respond then and there as to whether or not I was willing to return. If I said yes they kept my name in the pool. If I said no that would've been accepted as my resignation from the company. I have no idea how many said yes and how many said no, so what used to be a couple hundred people may now be considerably less.

Another point of interest here: remember that the VFs are recalled in INVERSE seniority, so they start at the bottom and work their way up. During the last recall they only got back to about 1997 hire dates and got all the people they needed. There was a much higher percentage of VFs that said yes than the invols, if for no other reason than they would likely be blockholders in most of the bases at that time, thus coming back to better working conditions than the poor invols who knew they'd be lifetime reserves. I'm '86 hire and can't imagine the company needing enough warm bodies to get all the way back to me on the list, but who knows. My guess is they'd rather just run an understaffed company.

 

[ggiby]

You are correct, BeachBoy. I'm one of the FAs on the VF (VF2 in Dec. 2002) which did NOT involve a payout. If I were recalled and came back I would do so at my original hire date. For the record, I'm not here to debate the merits or evils of that, but simply to clarify things for the ones who are confused about the whole VF issue. As you mentioned, there are two different types of voluntary furlough people out there...those of us on the extended furlough who took no money and would return with full seniority, and those who did take the buyout and - if recalled - would come back at the bottom of the list. I don't know the total numbers of each group, but I'm pretty sure my group alone was initially a couple hundred or more.

When they did the last East recall I got a letter from the company stating that if they went through the entire invol list (which they did) they would then have to come to our pool of FA's (which they also did). I had to respond then and there as to whether or not I was willing to return. If I said yes they kept my name in the pool. If I said no that would've been accepted as my resignation from the company. I have no idea how many said yes and how many said no, so what used to be a couple hundred people may now be considerably less.

Another point of interest here: remember that the VFs are recalled in INVERSE seniority, so they start at the bottom and work their way up. During the last recall they only got back to about 1997 hire dates and got all the people they needed. There was a much higher percentage of VFs that said yes than the invols, if for no other reason than they would likely be blockholders in most of the bases at that time, thus coming back to better working conditions than the poor invols who knew they'd be lifetime reserves. I'm '86 hire and can't imagine the company needing enough warm bodies to get all the way back to me on the list, but who knows. My guess is they'd rather just run an understaffed company.

I have a friend on the same list as you w/ a 1977 hire date. I was under the impression, that about two years ago, those on that list stopped accruing seniority from then on. So these last two years or so, are not going to be counted for years of service? Is that so?

 

[Travelpro72]

Anyone on a VF will come back with full seniority. Those that are on the VFLR took the cash and agreed that if they accepted a recall they would come back as "new hire" status. There are under 500 as stated by Hector that are on the VF. For those that don't think the company will get many takers upon a VF recall think of this.... You are a f/a on a VF and are recalled. You have a hire date somewhere in the 1980's and can come to PHL and hold basically what you want to a degree. Why would they NOT come back to receive FULL medical benefits, travel and only work 40 hours? Ummmm HELLO? NOW, with that said I have only one beef with those returning upon a recall of VF's. If you are a junior f/a displaced you get "priority right to return" and have been active while the VF's were not. So to my knowledge there is no clear cut language in our contract that covers displacement returns coupled with VF returns at the same time. While I agree that those on VF saved jobs of the junior f/a I don't believe that ONE took it for that reason. What protections do these junior displaced f/a's have? Apparently none. That to me is sickening and indicative of how this union works. It's seniority, seniority, seniority until you hit Reserve than it's just muddy water.

 

[pitguy74]

Any numbers on transfers that are due today by those Senior to the 89 that are being displaced?? (saving those that are being booted from PHL)

 

[Onestep2flt]

NOW, with that said I have only one beef with those returning upon a recall of VF's. If you are a junior f/a displaced you get "priority right to return" and have been active while the VF's were not. So to my knowledge there is no clear cut language in our contract that covers displacement returns coupled with VF returns at the same time. While I agree that those on VF saved jobs of the junior f/a I don't believe that ONE took it for that reason. What protections do these junior displaced f/a's have? Apparently none. That to me is sickening and indicative of how this union works. It's seniority, seniority, seniority until you hit Reserve than it's just muddy water.

That in a nutshell was the point I was trying to make. Don't have the beef with the people utilizing the contract language for there voluntary return. Your beef is with the contract itself which has ignored reserves for years. It has not been a problem until the last few years because there was steady growth with the company so you did not have the people that have been here for so long on reserve all year long year after year. You need to rally the troops and very openly remind the union negotiators that they are representing ALL flight attendants. It is not good enough for someone to bring up say a rotating reserve system at a local union meeting. First of Mr. Flores has repeated over and over again that it would not pass. The other thing is that the few block holders that show up at the meeting think you are trying to take something away from them. Your approach needs to be that the negotiating commitee needs to step aside if you can't find solutions to all flight attendant issues! In the meetings you need to indicate that you have ideas that you would like to present to them. I think calling for a seperate meeting to discuss ideas would be one solution. Have people that agree with your ideas flood the local and MEC offices about these ideas.

You can't do it by yourself. They just see one person as a troublemaker. Spread the word and make sure you follow up with people you meet. Don't just talk with people on here or facebook either. A lot of folks are just venting steam and go away. Don't be one of them!

Good luck!

 

[davo77]

I am a reserve. I have actually enjoyed the so-called understaffing issue in clt the past 2 months. I have recieved calls from future scheduling the day before I go on call and have actually worked 85+ hours for 2 months straight. If this is what understaffing is..THEN DONT CHANGE A THING!!!.
Having said that... I know that any type of quality of life a reserve starts to have is not ok with this company so Im sure when 90 people transfer here in august I will be back to working 50-60 hours a month...mostly from crappy daily calls and lots of quick calls. And forget about the ETB as it seems to be a secret society of blockholders posting deleting and reposting trips so their friends get what they want... I have decided instead to live within my means. I dont feel the need to run up and down the aisles pressuring passangers to go more in debt just to get a "free flight" on US...and again I dont sit on the ETB as its wasted time... I work when Im called and live my life to the fullest.. thats my rant for the year....c-ya..

 

[flybynite]

I am a reserve. I have actually enjoyed the so-called understaffing issue in clt the past 2 months. I have recieved calls from future scheduling the day before I go on call and have actually worked 85+ hours for 2 months straight. If this is what understaffing is..THEN DONT CHANGE A THING!!!.
Having said that... I know that any type of quality of life a reserve starts to have is not ok with this company so Im sure when 90 people transfer here in august I will be back to working 50-60 hours a month...mostly from crappy daily calls and lots of quick calls. And forget about the ETB as it seems to be a secret society of blockholders posting deleting and reposting trips so their friends get what they want... I have decided instead to live within my means. I dont feel the need to run up and down the aisles pressuring passangers to go more in debt just to get a "free flight" on US...and again I dont sit on the ETB as its wasted time... I work when Im called and live my life to the fullest.. thats my rant for the year....c-ya..

I have to agree with you. It crossed my mind that the company can't stand for the reserves to make a living. Nor do I trust their staffing figures.

And yes, the ETB has become a Peyton Place for the few. I can't pick anything off of it either. I've stopped trying too. It's the silliest thing I've ever seen!

 

[VAflyGal]

WHEN oh WHEN are they going to post the results of the displacements?!

It's been 24 hours since the bid closed and no one knows a thing...