AFA Labor Discussion (Work Conditions) 7-7 -

[VAflyGal]

While I have been participating, Carol has NOT missed any negotiations. She has been physically present, in the room, sitting at the table. Today, the JNC will be "telecaucusing". We will be calling in from various locations: Staff Negotiator, Joe Burns will most likely call in from MSP, Mike from CLT, Carol from SAN, Lisa and I from PHX.

We will be in negotiations again from September 13 - 17. At this time I will refrain from posting further. There are other items that are not accurate on this site, however; I just wanted to clear up that particular rumor. I'm not a fan of "web boards" and from past experience know these sites can become a bit out of control.

Try to be kind to one another and as always fly safe!

Deborah

It's nice to hear from someone on the inside because it's a whole lot of spin and crickets around here. That said, and I speak for 99% of flight attendants on the east (and I challenge you to prove me otherwise), we want Carol OFF the JNC. Most of us off, also, are fed up with the absolute CRAP that Mike and company are spinning to us at the meetings. Carol hasn't shown up at a union meeting in I don't know how long. I have to agree with PIT, BEACH, TRAVEL, and the others who are saying NO WAY, NOW HOW to ANY CONCESSIONS. Read it again, NO to ANY CONCESSIONS.
They have come to us one, two, three times and once, twice, three times we took it, "to save the company" blah blah blah. We're done with it. We are DONE with it. We want our 2000 contract back, + some. NO TRADING THIS FOR THAT. No more cleaning. No less vacation, no less sick, GIVE US OUR PAY BACK, we don't want transcon turns, I don't care what they are telling us at this point, WE HAVE HEARD ENOUGH and we are smart enough to read between the lines.

There were two people in the DCA crew room the other day collecting signatures to recall Carol and Mike. If they are reading this, PM me because I am more than happy to sign at this point. Enough is enough. We're tired of talking, pleading, screaming, shouting to deaf ears. I for one am not going to spend another X number of years stuck in some crap contract. We can stick it out a little longer. We deserve better and dammit, we're going to get it one way or another.

Do NOT underestimate the wherewithal of this group. We are standing by each other. ALL IN, people

 

[VAflyGal]

Before I point out a an error in the post....I want to make it clear I don't care who I negotiate with. It could be Carol and Mike, Bob and Carol or Ted and Alice...it really doesn't matter to me.

Now, for the record, since I've been sitting in on negotiations (since May 2010), Carol Austin has not missed one day in direct negotiations with management or in our joint committee caucusing sessions.


Deborah Volpe
AFA Council 66
MEC Vice President

WE care. We want FAIR AND EQUAL representation from FLIGHT ATTENDANTS who have the best interest of those who work the line, not a dinosaur and a meglomaniac who haven't worked on an aircraft in YEARS. Repeat after me: NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

The JNC better tighten up, as well as the MEC, or we will motion, second, and PASS a recall of every last one of those who are more concerned about their own agendas and self-service than the work they should be doing for the flight attendants who fork out dues month after month.

Take THAT back to the table, with all due respect.

 

[hp_fa]

Folks, FWIW, all I read from and into Ms. Volpe's post was that Carol has been physically at the meetings since Ms. Volpe has been on the JNC. I didn't see where she got into the politics of who does or doesn't represent the East folks interests. That is all outside of her responsibilities to AFA 66 and I seriously doubt that she would open that potential can of worms other to do what she did which was add one or two pieces of factual information from her personal observation.

 

[BajaBabe]

Who cares what is happening no one will stands for what really matters . Its a DEAD END SCRIPT everyone wants to be heard only in whispers on the jumpseat.

 

[HP2USFA]

Some of you really need to get that the 2000 contract will never see the light of day again.

There is no airline on Earth who could sustain those pay levels and work restrictions and not go into bankruptcy. I don't even think southwest could sustain those work rules and remain financially solvent. Paying folks not to work isn't going to happen in 2010. Never in a million years.

It's one thing to dream of days gone by and hope for a better future, it's another to hold the future hostage because it's not a carbon copy of it's younger hotter sister.

 

[really?noreally]

It's nice to hear from someone on the inside because it's a whole lot of spin and crickets around here. That said, and I speak for 99% of flight attendants on the east (and I challenge you to prove me otherwise), we want Carol OFF the JNC. Most of us off, also, are fed up with the absolute CRAP that Mike and company are spinning to us at the meetings. Carol hasn't shown up at a union meeting in I don't know how long. I have to agree with PIT, BEACH, TRAVEL, and the others who are saying NO WAY, NOW HOW to ANY CONCESSIONS. Read it again, NO to ANY CONCESSIONS.
They have come to us one, two, three times and once, twice, three times we took it, "to save the company" blah blah blah. We're done with it. We are DONE with it. We want our 2000 contract back, + some. NO TRADING THIS FOR THAT. No more cleaning. No less vacation, no less sick, GIVE US OUR PAY BACK, we don't want transcon turns, I don't care what they are telling us at this point, WE HAVE HEARD ENOUGH and we are smart enough to read between the lines.

There were two people in the DCA crew room the other day collecting signatures to recall Carol and Mike. If they are reading this, PM me because I am more than happy to sign at this point. Enough is enough. We're tired of talking, pleading, screaming, shouting to deaf ears. I for one am not going to spend another X number of years stuck in some crap contract. We can stick it out a little longer. We deserve better and dammit, we're going to get it one way or another.

Do NOT underestimate the wherewithal of this group. We are standing by each other. ALL IN, people

Nice to know that when a joint negotiator is replaced as with the West - twice - (one w/ elections) and then most recently w/Ms. Volpe replacing J A that negotiations continue.....and everyone attends these 'sessions', seems a smooth enough transition....
the world did not end with these replacements...making it that much easier to recall the East .......and continue to negotiate as...

the east will not settle, the east will not accept trading a concession for another concession, and it is apparent that the East JNC sitting at the table now is not listening.......does seem like they never were.

 

[Al Legheny]

I'm open to CSD, need more info on preferential bidding and very watchful of any new reserve proposals. I am in no way receptive to anything faintly resembling a concession however. And FYI, I'm a eastie with westie bloodlines.

I have a question for anyone on this borad, East or West, and an observation.

I am not a flight attendant but I understand the fear of the unknown and preferential bidding represents a great fear.

My question is: What is the percentage of West F/A's that commute to PHX?


My observation to all is that preferential bidding represents a potential hard-ship for east employees both Pilot and F/A. For the more junior block holder, the problem with PBS is that it will put stuff in your line that is un-commutable. It can turn a 4 day into a 6 day trip. With line building you can bid away from lines that don't work and we have SAP and the bid sheet. This is monster that management has created, they will have to live with it.
I just got am email from a DCA F/A that says the company is giving Space Positive travel to DCA to protect the labor Day Weekdned schedule.

The union must spell out the way that the trip trade or "bid sheet" system will work. If you are a PIT person, as may of our crew members, both front and back are, being able to get to and from work is critical. We as an airline out east have been turned into nomads. PIT, BOS, and LGA are all gone. We are old and don't want to move. Any contract item that makes an already tough life harder is going to face a critical uphill battle out East. We regularly see between 30 to 40 Non revs on PIT - PHL and PIT -CLT. With the closing of BOX and LGA we have even more commuters. Don't forget the Sr. Ramp, Maintenance and C/S staff that are also now forced to either move or commute to work.


Scheduling for the West is a rather simple exercise. It's a one-trick pony where essentially everything is a form of out-and-back. It is easy to build trips and lines that way. On the East it is different, particularly now that major markets are no longer crew bases, ie. BOS, LGA. How may F/A's commute to PHX? The commuting question will definitely have an impact on how a person will view scheduling contract changes.

To wrap this up AFA needs a major education campaign to the membership to explain, in detail, how Pref-Bidding will work, how F/A's will be able to trip trade or use some type of bid sheet. You will have to explain how all this will work while also explaining that it will so good that there is no need for the me-too clause, which touches duty rigs, pay time, rest periods, rescheduling and a whole lot more.

At best this is a major undertaking and IMHO, a major uphill battle. So far AFA has not shown itself up to it.

 

[N903AW]

My question is: What is the percentage of West F/A's that commute to PHX?

My best guess-timate would be between 25 and 30 percent. I am a commuter myself. Just from my midwest city to Phoenix we have 21 commuters (that we know of in our informal registration and phone list).

There are many other cities that have a higher percentage of commuters to Phoenix than others. Those would include Las Vegas, San Diego, Los Angeles, Denver, Minneapolis/St.Paul and Seattle/Tacoma.

We have commuters from just about every nonstop destination I can think of to Phoenix. I know a handful of commuters that commute from cities like Boston, Orlando, Charlotte and Washington D.C.

 

[hp_fa]

While I was still flying the 25-30% estimate seemed valid.

 

[N903AW]

My observation to all is that preferential bidding represents a potential hard-ship for east employees both Pilot and F/A. For the more junior block holder, the problem with PBS is that it will put stuff in your line that is un-commutable.

I am NOT a fan of PBS and will vote NO to every TA that has it.

Think about it...the Company is HELL BENT on implementing PBS. That ALONE should speak volumes, loud and clear, to everyone!! This will only work to their cost-saving advantage and NOT to the benefit of the employees.

With our current system, I can take one seven day block of vacation and essentially turn that into three weeks off just with trip conflicts. PBS does not allow conflict bidding.

PBS only benefits the top 2 percent of the seniority list. For everyone else, it is a crapshoot.

Whenever the Company is so insistent on something, like they are with PBS, it should send RED FLAGS flying in everyones mind. The Company is not going to try to push a system that will increase flexibility...but one that will restrict it.

Think about it.

 

[cactusgirl]

N903W- I'm right there with you! You are so right about the red flags.

Hello? Do others not realize this about PBS? And before someone comes on here and tells me the east already voted it in with their last contract, I say so what. The West doesn't have it in ours. They think they will be able to buy us off with just a pay raise. Did you know PBS is going to let us build our lines up to 110? That tells me it will push more folks to reserve and more folks on the street. Just. You. Watch. You want to work 110 hours, pick up off the trade board. This will drastically reduce the number of lines built.

Not only do they need to do lots of info sessions on PBS (not that I will EVER vote for it), but they need to run some test bids so people can see how they are going to be hosed before we have to vote on a TA.


I've seen very little of what will be in the final TA and I'm already a "no" vote.

 

[john john]

It's hard enough to travel with the planes packed to the brim. YOU might think it's a bonus to have people who haven't pushed a cart in 20 years beat me and my family off a trip when I finally get to take a vacation... I do not.

It’s was a longstanding pass practice for retire employees with more than twenty years of service to board as a SA3

 

[galley princess]

Okay, I signed in to address a post about 3 pages back.

Regarding retiree benefits. I am guessing that you are referring to the CONTRACTUALLY NEGOTIATED BENEFIT IN THE EAST CONTRACT that provides F/As SA3 status by seniority.

Yes, that's ours and no we're not giving it up. I am nowhere near it, but not only am I not going to vote to give it up, neither should you because it falls under the heading "concession".

I realize that AWA views seniority and flight benefits differently, but as someone who dealt with being bumped by a senior mama's child for years, only to actually achieve some mediocre seniority and have it taken away from my entire family if I am not with them, sorry, AWA isn't getting the SA3 from me.

Seniority means everything in this industry, it's a fact of life. I find it incredibly offensive that a 2010 hire deprives me of the flexibility to not fly with my family because he/she is "active". It's a tool of a company that has taken closing bases to an egregious level and needs to do something to ensure commuters have a shot at reaching their base. Years of service DO mean something.

The SA1 pretty much deals with an employee vacation, so if you're up against a retiree you go and they stay. Of course, WEST vacation being 5 weeks, I guess three SA1s may not be enough.

It's probably a non issue, since you have a 1969 hire negotiating. I can't imagine it really affects US much, so it'll never reach the table.

 

[galley princess]

IMHO it comes down to this, the company and negotiators can parley as long as they want to, the closer we get to Section 6 the better, as far as I am concerned.

I want to see the new FAA rest rules.

I want to see how DELTA buys off their F/As and NWA F/As.

Ditto for United and Continental.

While I understand that a contract opens up everything for both sides, as far as I am concerned there are sacred cows and everyone must decide for themselves what they are and where they want to draw their line in the sand.

Realize however that this is not 2001 and US is not a bankrupt company. No one twists your arm this time and sending a negotiating team back for something better is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better than accepting less that what the last hideous eight years has earned you.

For me, concessions are NOT AN OPTION.

 

[beachboy]

Some of you really need to get that the 2000 contract will never see the light of day again.

There is no airline on Earth who could sustain those pay levels and work restrictions and not go into bankruptcy. I don't even think southwest could sustain those work rules and remain financially solvent. Paying folks not to work isn't going to happen in 2010. Never in a million years.

It's one thing to dream of days gone by and hope for a better future, it's another to hold the future hostage because it's not a carbon copy of it's younger hotter sister.

Spoken like a true one time contract airline. We will DEMAND what is acceptable. Will everything in the 2000 contract be revived? Maybe not, but with tweaks...it better! YES! Anything less is a FAIL. Voted down. Period game over. Waiting for section 6....just like you.