AFA Labor Discussion (Work Conditions) 7-7 -

[flybynite]

Okay....I'm out of the loop here. Are they talking about a 110 monthly max? And what is this 25/45?

:unsure:

 

[N903AW]

Going to Pref Bid is like saying you are going to buy a car. Well there is a huge difference between a Yugo and a BMW. Pref bid is all about the program and I can only hope they negotiate what parameters they put in the program wisely. MF told everyone there would be a headcount reduction with Pref Bid only to at the CLT meeting last week state it would not. No one knows what to think.

OK...I can GUARANTEE you that the Company is going to go with the cheapest, crewmember-screwing system that they can find. I know that most of our colleagues on the East have longer tenure in the industry. But please take this to heart...we on the West have had a LOT more experience with the AWA type of Management that you are now working with.

You can dream about one day having the BMW (I prefer Mercedes, myself) of scheduling systems....but that is all it will be....a pipe dream.

Just because it is in the East Contract does NOT make it a DONE DEAL for the Joint Contract. Remember that was negotiated by you with the Management of Crystal City....not the Sand Castle Management you are now working under. Remember that you are no longer working at the Couture and the management that came with it...but you are now working in the Slaughterhouse.

PBS = FURLOUGHS
PBS = MANAGEMENT ADVANTAGE
PBS = LOSS OF FLEXIBILITY
PBS = FURTHER DOWNGRADES FOR BLOCKHOLDERS TO RESERVE
PBS = COMMUTING DIFFICULTIES FOR A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF OUR FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
PBS = CONCESSION

VOTE NO TO PBS!!

 

[N903AW]

What are our west negotiators smoking? I like the fact that now, if a trip or a flight cancels I get guaranteed that time. With the new scheduling section. I do not. Lisa and Deb gave away our GT on flight/trip cancellations. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! :angry: I wonder what else those two are going to give away? I shudder to think.

With all due respect, go sell your product somewhere else. Those of us on here ain't buying it!

OH H*LL NO!!! THAT IS A CONCESSION FOR THE WEST!!!

I will not give up trip guarantee for cancelled flights and trips!! And another NO having to "make up" the time like the East currently does if the flight cancels.

Flight Crews should not be held accountable for the shortcomings of the operation. PERIOD!

What else of what little we have that's better in the West Contract are we going to give up? 100 percent DH pay?? A week of vacation to bring East up but take us on the West down??

No offense, but the West should not be taking any concessions from those FEW sections of our contract that might be better to bring the East up.

NOBODY SHOULD BE SELLING THEMSELVES SHORT IN A JOINT AGREEMENT!!

If any section in the Joint TA is not an improvement for the ENTIRE workgroup...then it is NOT an improvement.

 

[HP2USFA]

Why even bother? Some of refuse to see anything other than your paranoid fear of change run amok. Its pointless to waste energy trying to explain anything. Live in the dark ages if you wish, don't expect the rest of us to join you

 

[beachboy]

The 25/45 is covered in Section 22.I.2 on the East and provides for lifetime travel as if in active service if you have completed twenty-five years of service as a Flight Attendant and have attained the age of forty-five (45). Travel for you and eligible family members traveling with you are set at S3. It goes way back and was one of the few things we held onto while they gutted us in bk. If Lisa and Deb think they are take that from us, then they are sorely mistaken. I have a mind to put "the word" out there to the retired gals. Those gals PAVED the way for us to have a contract at all. If not for them we would still be told to dye our hair certain colors and get on a scale to collect you pay check. They will use those S3's to come over with their walkers and canes and tell Deb a thing or two.

 

[flybynite]

The 25/45 is covered in Section 22.I.2 on the East and provides for lifetime travel as if in active service if you have completed twenty-five years of service as a Flight Attendant and have attained the age of forty-five (45). Travel for you and eligible family members traveling with you are set at S3. It goes way back and was one of the few things we held onto while they gutted us in bk. If Lisa and Deb think they are take that from us, then they are sorely mistaken. I have a mind to put "the word" out there to the retired gals. Those gals PAVED the way for us to have a contract at all. If not for them we would still be told to dye our hair certain colors and get on a scale to collect you pay check. They will use those S3's to come over with their walkers and canes and tell Deb a thing or two.

Oh lord....if they take that away there is going to be an angry mob with torches and pitchforks surrounding HQ.

 

[aptboeses]

With PBS, no one but YOU builds your line.

No scheduling committee, no company stooge, YOU and YOU alone.

With PBS you tell the system how much you want to work and on what days and times. You tell it I want a trip that lays over in ORD for 20+ hours, if it's available you get it. You tell the system on this day I want to be in this place, it builds it. You tell it that you only want to work trips that check in at 3:00pm on Tuesdays, it builds it.

You control everything with PBS. Everything becomes seniority based and in the complete hands of the employee.

You would think a system that further empowers seniority would be a definate good thing to you folks.

As a reserve, I love working Hot Shifts (ready reserve I believe it's called on the East). That's where you sit at the airport for x number of hours ready to go somewhere. With the proposed PBS system I'll be able to choose to work any available hot shifts needed during the month if I choose to do so. And I can make those choices DAILY with the PBS system... hourly if I want to. Again, all based on seniority.

It works if you're able to de-stigmatize yourself enough to take a honest look at it. Nothing is going to look good if you only look at it by what it can't or won't do instead of what it can and will do. It's change, I realize it's difficult, but it's not inherently bad.

It seems as people don't understand what a PBS is. It really is a basic bidding system where you bid for your choice of trips in any given time period based on seniority. You get to build your own schedule according to what you want and what your seniority can hold. Nothing more, nothing less. Very simple concept.

As for why ANY airline wants PBS? That's simple too. It takes far less people and far less time to process the trip bidding process and gives crews the ability to have a say in how their schedule is put together. It's a win for the company and it's a win for the employees. Now what we really should be talking about is where are we going to see the savings from PBS put to use in other sections in our new contract.

It's nothing to be scared of. It's very simple. But I often I have to remind myself some people here have a hard time with simple things such as CATCREW, HHD's, SAP, IFE systems, cell phones, etc.

One would think that the seniority obsessed would love this system but instead they're afraid of it. Go figure.

 

[beachboy]

Why even bother? Some of refuse to see anything other than your paranoid fear of change run amok. Its pointless to waste energy trying to explain anything. Live in the dark ages if you wish, don't expect the rest of us to join you

I have worked under both hard line bids (USAir) and PREF BID (former airline). I know what no conflict bidding is. I know it's all what you program the system to do and not do. How many systems have you worked under? Dark ages please <yawn>

 

[Furloughd4now]

It seems as people don't understand what a PBS is. It really is a basic bidding system where you bid for your choice of trips in any given time period based on seniority. You get to build your own schedule according to what you want and what your seniority can hold. Nothing more, nothing less. Very simple concept.

What it is, is a concept that most FAs can't and won't imagine........... It "may" be good for some, but not for others... but if it doesn't benefit the "immediate few" it will not matter...

however we will vote NO!

 

[aptboeses]

What it is, is a concept that most FAs can't and won't imagine........... It "may" be good for some, but not for others... but if it doesn't benefit the "immediate few" it will not matter...

however we will vote NO!

I guess people want to continue to have their schedules dictated to them and have to conform their lives around it rather than conform your schedule around your life from the very beginning. It's just strikes me as very counterintuitive.

Maybe people just want to work ATH or FCO on days they didn't want to work just so they could say that they held those trips? I have to be missing something...

 

[flybynite]

I guess people want to continue to have their schedules dictated to them and have to conform their lives around it rather than conform your schedule around your life from the very beginning. It's just strikes me as very counterintuitive.

Maybe people just want to work ATH or FCO on days they didn't want to work just so they could say that they held those trips? I have to be missing something...

Yes....you are missing something.

PBS is a software program that so far at it's best works for the top 25% or so. And the only reason we don't have it now is because the union has prevented the company from imposing it for the simple reason that they aren't willing to buy the right program that doesn't violate our contract parameters.

Anything thing else is a violation of our current contract.

You don't understand the flexibility of our old "CATCREW" and SAP programs. They do require more input but they get the job done. And because of this...the more junior people aren't stuck with bullshit trips. These "old" programs are more friendly for the junior f/a's. And they were built that way for a reason.

They preserve jobs.

 

[beachboy]

You don't understand the flexibility of our old "CATCREW" and SAP programs. They do require more input but they get the job done. And because of this...the more junior people aren't stuck with bullshit trips. These "old" programs are more friendly for the junior f/a's. And they were built that way for a reason.

They preserve jobs.

This is quite true. No one flys at their senority here. Once PBS is in place, people are about to find out what their true senority really is.

 

[aptboeses]

Yes....you are missing something.

PBS is a software program that so far at it's best works for the top 25% or so. And the only reason we don't have it now is because the union has prevented the company from imposing it for the simple reason that they aren't willing to buy the right program that doesn't violate our contract parameters.

Anything thing else is a violation of our current contract.

You don't understand the flexibility of our old "CATCREW" and SAP programs. They do require more input but they get the job done. And because of this...the more junior people aren't stuck with bullshit trips. These "old" programs are more friendly for the junior f/a's. And they were built that way for a reason.

They preserve jobs.

 

[Travelpro72]

Beachboy....Sing it sista. Those that say, "PBS will allow soooooo much flexibility" while in the next breath forget to tell you that that "flexibility" will be with trips that are left at your seniority. While I find catcrew to be something from the movie War Games, that coupled with SAP gives flight attendants on the east "false seniority". PBS will give the best of the best trips to the top with only crap remaining for the majority. I'm sorry to all those PBS supporters but that is FACT! ! ! You think those with 20 years will be flying strictly transatlantic all summer? Think again my friends. What a laughable joke. To top it all off, PBS is just the tip of the ice"burgh" when it comes to other items the JNC is ready to cram down our throats. NO THANKS! ! ! :down:

 

[beachboy]

Oh look! Hidden inside Iron Mountain outside PIT is the mainframe for CATS and the "Pairing Optimizer". I think when it "died" a while back something was never right after they revived it. Might have something to do with all the BS base flying shifts.

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