About The New Force Majeure

[strike facts]

"In the event that circumstances beyond the company's control: acts of God, STRIKES, etc., cause the operation to be reduced or stopped, the Company may 'remove' employees from the payroll without obligation."

If this clause means anything to you and you want to be informed even though your union is chest pounding while it fails to address what this clause means to you, then read on.

With almost certainty you can expect that US AIRWAYS invoke this clause and will claim a new force majeure if the IAM goes on strike. With almost certainty you can expect that US AIRWAYS will reduce its operation below 279 jets. With almost certainty you can expect US AIRWAYS will not need the current staffing levels.

The problem in a force majeure situation is that when someone is on the outside, they may not be entitled to the normal and customary method of being laid off by seniority. Case law is there.

The IAM has notified its members that any who sympathizes can not be laid off, discharged, or disciplined. This is true but it doesn't follow that a sympathizer or striker will be allowed back at the time of his choosing. Case law again. You are fooling yourself if you think the company has to lay you off, discharge you or discipline you to keep you 'out'. The company doesn't have to declare you laid off, the company doesn't have to declare you discharged, and the company doesn't have to discipline you in such a situation. What most likely will happen will be the opposite for legal hedging. Most likely, the company may actually tell you that you aren't laid off, discharged or disciplined and that they will try to get you back ASAP. That doesn't do you any good when you see others with less seniority going to work. And this may include pilots, flight attendants, ramp service, ticket agents along with mechanics.

Also, the company can break the law and just start screwing with employees. Something this management team is capable of doing and unfortunately too willing to do. In that case I would have to believe, after a long time, the employees would ultimately have a chance to win a judgement but such a chance is usually squashed when a union steps in and settles. This is what happened in some respects with the 9/11 force majeure grievances. The union just agreed to toss out the grievances while the company agreed to appease the union.

And it goes without saying that on the picket line your salaried-continued union leaders will be calling those on the inside 'scabs', but on the inside they will call them brothers and sisters while they continue to collect their dues.

I certainly hope interesting and intelligent discussion follows this post. I'm not looking for agreement, this is just one person's opinion and I would appreciate if there were no name calling and that everyone respects other posters who agree with my post or disagree with my post.

Hopefully this post will stimulate the proper questioning to union officials and force them to address these legal issues that you and your spouse deserve answered no matter if you support a strike or don't support a strike. Accepting an ignorance on this matter will be your fault.

 

[delldude]

i'm sorry,i wasn't aware of the "NEW FORCE MAJURE"....what did you do with the old one squire?
if the company choses to exercise f/m..then it will also be decimating its own ranks also.
furthermore with loads up decimating the fleet would give gain to competition in all our markets.... and reduce badly needed revenue....thus forcing U to miss revenue targets and...oh my god...maybe forcing the hand of liquidating the airline if we don't meet these certain revenue targets by,whats that date in june now,dave?
your easiest solution is to do these checks in house and avoid all these unneccesary pleasantries now isn't it?who chose this path now? don't blame IAM...you had your chance to change the contract in BK now didn't you?you got 2 billion in cash so don't give me any of your diatribe here...its about breaking the contract and the will of the workers.... doctor boner said he was going to have 6-8 years of labor tranquility.....so be it.....how they say...caveat emptor!!

 

[strike facts]

i'm sorry,i wasn't aware of the "NEW FORCE MAJURE"....what did you do with the old one squire?
if the company choses to exercise f/m..then it will also be decimating its own ranks also.
furthermore with loads up decimating the fleet would give gain to competition in all our markets.... and reduce badly needed revenue....thus forcing U to miss revenue targets and...oh my god...maybe forcing the hand of liquidating the airline if we don't meet these certain revenue targets by,whats that date in june now,dave?
your easiest solution is to do these checks in house and avoid all these unneccesary pleasantries now isn't it?who chose this path now? don't blame IAM...you had your chance to change the contract in BK now didn't you?you got 2 billion in cash so don't give me any of your diatribe here...its about breaking the contract and the will of the workers.... doctor boner said he was going to have 6-8 years of labor tranquility.....so be it.....how they say...caveat emptor!!

I agree with your quickest and easiest solution. Unfortunately, the employee is the enemy at this company and all cannons are pointed to them instead of the competition.

 

[pitguy]

“Management that lies is the enemyâ€￾ of this company. Also they are the enemy of the employees (and the enemy of my family and me). It's your war. You drew :angry: first blood.

 

[pitguy]

strike facts states above:
Unfortunately, the employee is the enemy at this company and all cannons are pointed to them instead of the competition.


You must be ill strike facts. Do you have a soul?

 

[mrplanes]

Stikefacts:

What you evidently do not understand is that there are a large number of employees here who are perfectly willing to let this company liquidate over this issue. Employees in ALL categories. I am one of those. And I FLY the jets, I don't work on them.

mr

 

[cavalier]

"In the event that circumstances beyond the company's control: acts of God, STRIKES, etc., cause the operation to be reduced or stopped, the Company may 'remove' employees from the payroll without obligation."

If this clause means anything to you and you want to be informed even though your union is chest pounding while it fails to address what this clause means to you, then read on.

With almost certainty you can expect that US AIRWAYS invoke this clause and will claim a new force majeure if the IAM goes on strike. With almost certainty you can expect that US AIRWAYS will reduce its operation below 279 jets. With almost certainty you can expect US AIRWAYS will not need the current staffing levels.

PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR. If you believe people will follow your irrational reasoning, then I say go into sales and become wealthy and forget about this industry. U is in the lead industry wide for these kinds of actions that are destroying what has been won over decades of real shed blood and you are saying, let Dave take it all!! You are without a doubt truly with no heart. I am being very kind to you here, believe me!

 

[Borescope]

Stikefacts:

What you evidently do not understand is that there are a large number of employees here who are perfectly willing to let this company liquidate over this issue. Employees in ALL categories. I am one of those. And I FLY the jets, I don't work on them.

mr

Here's a guy blowing smoke. I seem to remember when you guy were "willing to let the company liquadate" over your pension. What happened, you seem to still be in business. Get on with life dude. If you serve the customers (who pay your wages), your airline can be great again and you will all prosper, management and employees alike.

 

[PITbull]

Again more lies.

This mangement believes that the only thing an employee deserves is a wage, and a low one at that.

There is no prospering here as a "rank and file" employee EVER! The only ones who prosoper is senior management. They have positioned this company for their OWN gain, them along with the thieves at RSA.

There will never be peace on this property. There is no room in business for distrust. There will be years and years of labor unrest, no strike needed, just labor unrest and all that goes along with that.

This is truly a shame for this company and it just didn't have to be this way.

 

[strike facts]

strike facts states above:
Unfortunately, the employee is the enemy at this company and all cannons are pointed to them instead of the competition.


You must be ill strike facts. Do you have a soul?

What I meant was that it is unfortunate that the company considers the employees the enemy. Apparently you misunderstood mypost. It was a critique of managments continued arrogance towards employees.

 

[pitguy]

strike facts states above:
Unfortunately, the employee is the enemy at this company and all cannons are pointed to them instead of the competition.


You must be ill strike facts. Do you have a soul?

What I meant was that it is unfortunate that the company considers the employees the enemy. Apparently you misunderstood mypost. It was a critique of managments continued arrogance towards employees.

Say what you may, but I feel you are a person with no honor and with low morals. I have read your posts and feel you may have deep rooted social issues. I feel how you defend a liar and a thief is despicable.




--I believe some of the true heroes of today are not sports players or people of greed, but women and men that take care of their families. That makes good choices. Live responsible and provide for their children and friends as required. (And don’t lie and cheat others)

 

[delldude]

i'm sorry,i wasn't aware of the "NEW FORCE MAJURE"....what did you do with the old one squire?
if the company choses to exercise f/m..then it will also be decimating its own ranks also.
furthermore with loads up decimating the fleet would give gain to competition in all our markets.... and reduce badly needed revenue....thus forcing U to miss revenue targets and...oh my god...maybe forcing the hand of liquidating the airline if we don't meet these certain revenue targets by,whats that date in june now,dave?
your easiest solution is to do these checks in house and avoid all these unneccesary pleasantries now isn't it?who chose this path now? don't blame IAM...you had your chance to change the contract in BK now didn't you?you got 2 billion in cash so don't give me any of your diatribe here...its about breaking the contract and the will of the workers.... doctor boner said he was going to have 6-8 years of labor tranquility.....so be it.....how they say...caveat emptor!!

I agree with your quickest and easiest solution. Unfortunately, the employee is the enemy at this company and all cannons are pointed to them instead of the competition.

ahhh,strike facts...my corporate friend............so easy did you invite educated discussion...and so easy in one post was it for you to reveal your true identity.....you make us laugh...you have just been ambushed ..ambushed by the lackey's you despise.....ah ha ha ...
let me quote you:"the employee is the enemy at this company"...you have blown your cover here my corporate friend...ah ha ha ha...don't tell dave/dave we smell a rat.....you've shot your wad and been exposed by a lowly a+p mechanic,undereducated and overated by your standards...a peon of no noble worth compared to you and your elitist standards...
you post to cause and instigate dischord and harmony...yet you have shown your hand....you will not win....we will prevail...we are one......you can take that to the bank my corporate friend....

 

[delldude]

strike facts states above:
Unfortunately, the employee is the enemy at this company and all cannons are pointed to them instead of the competition.


You must be ill strike facts. Do you have a soul?

What I meant was that it is unfortunate that the company considers the employees the enemy. Apparently you misunderstood mypost. It was a critique of managments continued arrogance towards employees.

tell me now strike facts.....

 

[mrplanes]

Stikefacts:

What you evidently do not understand is that there are a large number of employees here who are perfectly willing to let this company liquidate over this issue. Employees in ALL categories. I am one of those. And I FLY the jets, I don't work on them.

mr

Here's a guy blowing smoke. I seem to remember when you guy were "willing to let the company liquadate" over your pension. What happened, you seem to still be in business. Get on with life dude. If you serve the customers (who pay your wages), your airline can be great again and you will all prosper, management and employees alike.

Bore:

I was ready. Still am. Our PIT rep voted for allowing the company to terminate the pension and we recalled him. Now we have two reps in PIT who feel as I and hundreds of other pilots do. And we are working to get more. Strength lies in numbers and not individuals. Had we had the numbers we would still have our pension. Or there would be no company if the company wasn't bluffing. I was willing (and still am willing) to take that chance. This is a job. Not a life.

We serve our customers well. We. The employees. Not the management. It is our airline. Not theirs. They are pushing to see how far they can get. They have gone well beyond need and into want. And they will not stop unless and until we have the collective will to shut it down. It is that simple. Some have that will. Some do not. I get the impression, if you are an employee, that you will accept whatever they dish out. That is how they get away with it. I was a Seigel supporter in the begining. Look up some of my first posts. But it became apparent to me that he is just another Lorenzo wearing a better suit. This is a great company. With pathetic leadership. Until that changes we are at risk. Until we (all employees) understand that, they will continue to drive us into the ground. Just like EAL, BNF, and the rest. It would be a shame to allow these Lorenzo-like cretins to do that. And the employees are the only ones who can stop them.

mr