ABC's Path to 9/11

[bagstacker]

Well TWAnr,

You kinda put that one on the ladies tee for Hopeful. He got a running start at that one - not unlike Happy Gilmore. I'd buy that for a dollar!

Did you take a look at that website? We're talking way past conservative all the way into Kooky-Land in there! :blink:

Truly an unbiased source!

MM is still waiting to pay that money...

 

[bagstacker]

Excellent post. There's more than enough blame to go around.

Government let us down five years ago. Not Republicans. Not Democrats. Government. Too many people in Government sitting on their thumbs.

Unfortunately for this life-long Republican - the current Administration seems to delight in reminding us that only members of his party can protect us from terrorists - practically ensuring that this November's election day will be a very sad one in my house - as Democrats will likely retake both sides of Congress and will probably hold them for another 40 years.

Well said! A little more bi-partisanship in the aftermath of 9/11 and since then would have gone a long way.

There was a time that I was just an average voter who would never vote a straight ticket, preferring to judge each candidate on his/her individual merits. Republican hyper-partisanship and rhetoric that labels political opponents as virtual public enemies have made me a straight ticket Dem voter, donor, and activist. I will remain so until the rancor subsides, if ever.

As far as Dems winning back both houses - Incumbency, particularly well-funded Republican incumbency, is hard to overcome. Everybody wants to "throw the bums out." Except, of course for their home state/district bum!

 

[local 12 proud]

George Bush decided he is no longer interested in bin laden.

Really, when did he say that? Your sources please!

Support our troops is great and we all do. But they are in Iraq, which had zero to do with terrorism WMD's or any connection to 911.

You know as well as I that the Intelligence that was presented to all sides disputes that statement at least the WMD's equation. Saddam violated every UN Resolution for over a decade, he targeted our fighter jets that patrolled the no fly zone, the tyrant's own ex-generals gave information of terrorist training camps, he not only paid but increased the reward for palestinian hamas suicide bombers families from $10,000 to $25,000 as payment for bombing Israelis, is that not support of terrorism?

Fighting terrorism and the people who seek to harm us is a noble thing and the right thing to do. But until we focus on that and stop wasting time and money on a failed policy in Iraq, nothing will change. Its not winnable or sustainable. Was not for the Roman, the English or US.

Iraq is a mess no doubt, no one planned for nor expected the insurgencey that would come from syria and iran but if we just pull out and leave the New Iraqi Government which has requested we stay on until they can take full control of the situiation what do think is going to happen?

I'll tell you what will happen, that country will fall into total chaos that will make whats happening now look like a school yard fight. The radical islamist will seize control and we will have another terrorist training ground worse than the last. To say this war is not winnable or sustainable is to say all we've done and sacrificed is in vain, it does nothing but hurt troop morale, and it sends our enemy the message they are the Victor.

We are not the romans, nor the english. We are the U.S.A. and we have the most powerful military thats ever been assembled throughout history. We can'not accept anything less than a victory!!!

 

[eolesen]

I can agree with you on that, but then at very least come out swinging on behalf of their employees and defend the false accusations against its employees.

Consider it done...

FORT WORTH, Texas, Sept 11, 2006 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- American Airlines today issued the following statement regarding the ABC-TV program The Path to 9/11:

"The Disney/ABC television program, The Path to 9/11, which began airing last night, is inaccurate and irresponsible in its portrayal of the airport check-in events that occurred on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001.
"A factual description of those events can be found in the official government edition of the 9/11 Commission Report and supporting documents.

"This misrepresentation of facts dishonors the memory of innocent American Airlines employees and all those who lost their lives as a result of the tragic events of 9/11."

American said it will have no further comment beyond the statement at this time.

(emphasis added)

 

[Vortilon]

Did you take a look at that website? We're talking way past conservative all the way into Kooky-Land in there! :blink:

Truly an unbiased source!

MM is still waiting to pay that money...

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Dear Bagstacker,

Try this on for size.



Read and Think....?? How Long Do We Have?

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new
constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor
at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of
the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist
as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to
exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote
themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that
moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise
the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that
every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy,
which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the
beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200
years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage"

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St.
Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the
2000 Presidential election:

*Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million *
*Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000*
*States won by: Gore: 19; Bush: 29*
*Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2;
Bush: 2.1*

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush
won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this
great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens
living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of
government welfare..."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of
democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population
already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million
criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then goodbye to the
USA in fewer than five years.




* **
ONward & UPward
**

This is what liberals bring.................No Thanks...

 

[Hopeful]

Why don't both you Democrats and Republicans shut up. Fact is both political parties are partly responsible for what happened on 9-11. President Clinton failed to get rid of Bin laden while he was in office. The result was the first WTC bombing and the attacks on our embassies and the USS COLE. When President Bush took office he was warned by Clinton that America's number one enemy was Al Qaeda and Bin laden. President Bush has failed to get rid of Bin Laden also and the result was the 9-11 disaster. Bush was in office for almost eight months when 9-11 happened, so blaming Clinton totally for 9-11 is as ridicullous as is totally blaming Bush.

That's the jist of this debate...TWAnr states that all of Michael Moore's 911 movie is 100% true. All of these a##holes have a political agenda. Be it Michael Moore or RusH Limbaugh.....THEY ALL HAVE AN AGENDA AND THAT IS TO PLAY TO PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE WHAT THEY BELIEVE!

Did you take a look at that website? We're talking way past conservative all the way into Kooky-Land in there! :blink:

Truly an unbiased source!

MM is still waiting to pay that money...

And what do you call AIR AMERICA???

 

[bagstacker]

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Dear Bagstacker,

Try this on for size.



Read and Think....?? How Long Do We Have?

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new
constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor
at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of
the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist
as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to
exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote
themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that
moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise
the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that
every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy,
which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the
beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200
years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage"

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St.
Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the
2000 Presidential election:

*Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million *
*Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000*
*States won by: Gore: 19; Bush: 29*
*Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2;
Bush: 2.1*

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush
won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this
great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens
living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of
government welfare..."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of
democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population
already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million
criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then goodbye to the
USA in fewer than five years.


* **
ONward & UPward
**

This is what liberals bring.................No Thanks...

Read and Think indeed! Woohoo!

You know, cut n' paste genius like yours is truly amazing!
I thought this moronic rant had the stench of brainless b.s. about it, it took me all of 30 seconds to google this up:

http://www.hamline.edu/law/professors/joseph_olson.html

Professor Olson teaches Business Associations, Business Planning, Contracts, Corporate Finance, and taxation courses.

DISCLAIMER: There is an e-mail floating around the internet dealing with the 2000 Bush/Gore election, remarks of a Scotish philosopher named Alexander Tyler, etc. Part of it is attributed to me. It is entirely BOGUS as to my authorship. I've been trying to kill it for 3 years. For details see:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp.

BUSTED!

You are the perfect example of someone who mindlessly regurgitates horse hockey, when it only takes minutes to find the truth! Of course, I know truth is such an inconvenient thing for the kind of hair-on-fire conservatives who like to "create their own reality".

And the real kicker is, Hamline has a LIBERAL ARTS school that offers a master's in LIBERAL studies. Thanks for the best laugh I've had all day.

Basic research: Learn it, Live it, Love it, and maybe you won't make such an ass of yourself in the future.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Consider it done...

Very well...now if they would of put that out earlier, it would of saved a few of us a lot of writing.

 

[eolesen]

The timing was a bit odd -- 18:04 Eastern, so it may have been timed to be after the nightly news cycle.

 

[bagstacker]

That's the jist of this debate...TWAnr states that all of Michael Moore's 911 movie is 100% true. All of these a##holes have a political agenda. Be it Michael Moore or RusH Limbaugh.....THEY ALL HAVE AN AGENDA AND THAT IS TO PLAY TO PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE WHAT THEY BELIEVE!
And what do you call AIR AMERICA???

http://www.airamerica.com

Real Radio!

That website is way past Rush, it's just plain weird. :huh:

 

[FA Mikey]

Really, when did he say that? Your sources please!

Q Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden. Why is that? Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive? Final part -- deep in your heart, don't you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won't really eliminate the threat of --

THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all. Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is -- really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.

Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is -- as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide -- if, in fact, he's hiding at all.

So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

And there will be other battles in Afghanistan. There's going to be other struggles like Shahikot, and I'm just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shahikot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly. We're tough, we're strong, they're well-equipped. We have a good strategy. We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means.

Q But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.

But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore. And if we -- excuse me for a minute -- and if we find a training camp, we'll take care of it. Either we will or our friends will. That's one of the things -- part of the new phase that's becoming apparent to the American people is that we're working closely with other governments to deny sanctuary, or training, or a place to hide, or a place to raise money.

And we've got more work to do. See, that's the thing the American people have got to understand, that we've only been at this six months. This is going to be a long struggle. I keep saying that; I don't know whether you all believe me or not. But time will show you that it's going to take a long time to achieve this objective. And I can assure you, I am not going to blink. And I'm not going to get tired. Because I know what is at stake. And history has called us to action, and I am going to seize this moment for the good of the world, for peace in the world and for freedom.

official white house transcript

You know as well as I that the Intelligence that was presented to all sides disputes that statement at least the WMD's equation. Saddam violated every UN Resolution for over a decade, he targeted our fighter jets that patrolled the no fly zone, the tyrant's own ex-generals gave information of terrorist training camps, he not only paid but increased the reward for palestinian hamas suicide bombers families from $10,000 to $25,000 as payment for bombing Israelis, is that not support of terrorism?

From Meet the press last sunday
Cheney Now Says Saddam Had Nothing To Do With 9/11

MR. RUSSERT: But let’s look at what you told me on that morning of September 16, 2001, when I asked you about Saddam Hussein. Let’s watch.

(Videotape, September 16, 2001):

VICE PRES. CHENEY: At this stage, the focus is over here on al-Qaeda and the most recent events in New York [that is, 9/11]. Saddam Hussein is bottled up at this point.

MR. RUSSERT: Do we have any evidence linking Saddam Hussein or Iraqis to this operation?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: No.

(End of videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: You said Saddam Hussein was bottled up.

VICE PRES. CHENEY: Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT: And he was not linked in any way to September 11.

VICE PRES. CHENEY: To 9/11.

MR. RUSSERT: And now we have the Select Committee on Intelligence coming out with a report on Friday, it says here, “A declassified report released [Friday] by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence revealed that U.S. intelligence analysts were strongly disputing the alleged links between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda while senior Bush administration officials were publicly asserting those links to justify invading Iraq.â€

You said here that it was pretty well confirmed that Atta may have had a meeting in Prague, that that was credible. All the while, according to the Senate Intelligence Committee in January and in June and in September, the CIA was saying that wasn’t the case. And then the president...

VICE PRES. CHENEY: Well, let me, let me—on that—well, go ahead.

MR. RUSSERT: No, go ahead.

VICE PRES. CHENEY: No, I want a, I want a chance to jump on that.

MR. RUSSERT: OK, but, but you said it was pretty well confirmed that it was credible and now the Senate Intelligence Committee says not true, The CIA was waving you off.

VICE PRES. CHENEY: No.

MR. RUSSERT: Any suggestion there was a meeting with Mohamed Atta, one of the hijackers, with Iraqi officials?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: No....what I told you was exactly what we were receiving at the time. It never said, and I don’t believe I ever said, specifically, that it linked the Iraqis to 9/11. It specifically said he had been in Prague, Mohamed Atta had been in Prague and we didn’t know...

MR. RUSSERT: Well, I asked you, I said, “is there a connection between Saddam and 9/11 on September ‘03†and you said “we don’t know.â€

VICE PRES. CHENEY: (Unintelligible). That’s right.

MR. RUSSERT: So you raised that possibility.

VICE PRES. CHENEY: It was raised by the CIA who passed on the report from the Czech Intelligence Service.

MR. RUSSERT: All right. Now the president has been asked, “What did Iraq have to do with the attack on the World Trade Center?†and he said “nothing.†Do you agree with that?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: I do. So it’s not...

MR. RUSSERT: So it’s case, case closed....

MR. RUSSERT: The bottom line is, the rationale given the American people was that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and he could give those weapons of mass destruction to al-Qaeda and we could have another September 11. And now we read that there is no evidence, according to the Senate Intelligence Committee, of that relationship. You’ve said there’s no involvement. The president says there’s no involvement.

Iraq is a mess no doubt, no one planned for nor expected the insurgencey that would come from syria and iran but if we just pull out and leave the New Iraqi Government which has requested we stay on until they can take full control of the situiation what do think is going to happen?

The same that has been going on there for a thousand years. Mesopotamia is a mess and always been a mess. You cannot instill western morals and values on these people. There is a whole other mind set. While you and I think more of the future, what it will bring and how to improve it. They dwell on issues and wrongs instilled on them in the past. There is little forward thinking and you will never get the three warring faction to rule this place now called Iraq in a civil fair free society.

We have lost 2,666 soldiers and almost 20,000 wounded. Between 40,000 and 50,000 dead Iraq civilians and 400,000,000 billion dollars wasted on a war that had NO cause or effect on 911.

I'll tell you what will happen, that country will fall into total chaos that will make whats happening now look like a school yard fight. The radical islamist will seize control and we will have another terrorist training ground worse than the last. To say this war is not winnable or sustainable is to say all we've done and sacrificed is in vain, it does nothing but hurt troop morale, and it sends our enemy the message they are the Victor.

We are not the romans, nor the english. We are the U.S.A. and we have the most powerful military thats ever been assembled throughout history. We can'not accept anything less than a victory!!!

They proved on 911, having the strongest military doesn't make you safe or free.

We created the insurgency and the training grounds. We are the poster child for the next generation of terrorists in that country. There are UN-winnable conflicts. Sending more money and US soldiers to die in vain is certainly not the answer.

 

[local 12 proud]

You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you.

That hardly translates into this:

George Bush decided he is no longer interested in bin laden.

Cheney Now Says Saddam Had Nothing To Do With 9/11

And your point is? Ive already given you the reasons for going to Iraq, and why we need to finish the job!

Mesopotamia is a mess and always been a mess. You cannot instill western morals and values on these people. There is a whole other mind set. While you and I think more of the future, what it will bring and how to improve it. They dwell on issues and wrongs instilled on them in the past. There is little forward thinking and you will never get the three warring faction to rule this place now called Iraq in a civil fair free society.

The same could be said about Saudia Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, and now thanks to a little persuasion Lybia. The New Installed government will have to take over at some point, we can't be there forever but at the same time we can't just desert them either. That will send the wrong message not only to our enemies but to our allies in that region, essentially saying when the going gets tough we can't be counted on to Deliver.

We have lost 2,666 soldiers and almost 20,000 wounded. Between 40,000 and 50,000 dead Iraq civilians and 400,000,000 billion dollars wasted on a war that had NO cause or effect on 911.

We stand to lose much more than that if we admit defeat.

They proved on 911, having the strongest military doesn't make you safe or free.

True if you choose not to pursue your enemies, we can no longer afford to be reactive to the threats and wait to be attacked, we must be proactive and nip it in the bud else we risk something much more reprehensible than 9/11

We created the insurgency and the training grounds. We are the poster child for the next generation of terrorists in that country.

We did'nt create them, you admitted yourself these conflicts have been raging for thousands of years. this is a (Jihad) holy war with Islam against the Infidel. They are preparing for the Last great battle against us (the Big Satan) and Israel (the little Satan) These are their words not mine. For crying out loud man, that Fanatic who is now president (Ahmadinejad) of Iran Has openly denied that the holocaust ever happened, and that Israel needs to be wiped off the Map. Do you prescribe to that notion as well?

There are UN-winnable conflicts.

Your kidding right?.. I think the UN's ineffectiveness has shown its true might.

Sending more money and US soldiers to die in vain is certainly not the answer.

Neither is Retreat!

 

[AMFAMAN]

The timing was a bit odd -- 18:04 Eastern, so it may have been timed to be after the nightly news cycle.

I knew they followed this board.

 

[mrfish3726]

And yokel 12 knows all about making judgemental and snide posts!

THX Bagstacker, UAL was the most F&*k'D up company anyone could have worked for. I was glad to have quit and cut my loses with such a losing team. I hope that ALL of you at AA, no matter what union you work for or what your beefs with managemant are! That you will ALL realize that AA is and will be the most successful airline POST 9/11.

And yes Steve Gambrel knew me as a neighbor in Ft. Worth, a work companion at Dalfort, a trusted friend at LAX, a friend who lived and worked for UAL in Indianapolis, and now a friend at Frontier in Denver. AMFMAN have Steve e-mail the Mrfish at Frontierflyer_48@yahoo.com so we can re-connect and I can rent a scooter in TX for a Ride1

 

[FA Mikey]

That hardly translates into this:

Disbanding the military group assigned to find capture or kill bin laden and GWB quote "I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him." VS his dead or alive speech.

Ive already given you the reasons for going to Iraq, and why we need to finish the job!

They are not legitimate, We created the terror in Iraq. GWB and DC now have to admit lying to the world, why we attacked them.

The same could be said about Saudia Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, and now thanks to a little persuasion Lybia.

Which means what you advocate trying to occupy those countries as well?

The New Installed government will have to take over at some point, we can't be there forever but at the same time we can't just desert them either.

If you are waiting for an elected government to be in charge and capable of running Iraq. We will be there forever. The only person in modern times who has controlled that region has been Sadam. There is a civil war going on and I am sick of seeing our military as target practice and my and the next few generations futures mortgaged on this failed policy of vindicating someone's daddy.

That will send the wrong message not only to our enemies but to our allies in that region, essentially saying when the going gets tough we can't be counted on to Deliver.

Deliver what? We caused the mess. Our allies, count them one hand these days. Our enemies, please enemy number 1 bin laden, GWB cannot be the least bit concerned with. There is a great message to the people who wish death and destruction to America.

We stand to lose much more than that if we admit defeat.

Sounds like that sound policy for Vietnam.

True if you choose not to pursue your enemies, we can no longer afford to be reactive to the threats and wait to be attacked, we must be proactive and nip it in the bud else we risk something much more reprehensible than 9/11

But we are waiting to be attacked. At least the brave men and woman who make up the military are. Iraq was not an enemy, we attacked them. We created the insurgency, and the environment of hate that people like bin laden and his ilk use to recruit more radicals.

We did'nt create them, you admitted yourself these conflicts have been raging for thousands of years. this is a (Jihad) holy war with Islam against the Infidel.

I mean fighting among themselves and those who occupy there lands. We are the infidel, we are the occupiers and the ones who are trying to convert them to a democracy that just is not going to happen in this year or a hundred from now.

They are preparing for the Last great battle against us (the Big Satan) and Israel (the little Satan) These are their words not mine. For crying out loud man, that Fanatic who is now president (Ahmadinejad) of Iran Has openly denied that the holocaust ever happened, and that Israel needs to be wiped off the Map. Do you prescribe to that notion as well?

He needs an enemy to rally his neocons against just like GWB needs radical Islamism for him. Every chance he gets to trash and belittle any other country. Axis of evil, we should add ourselves to the list.

Past leaders have shown that talking and bringing to the table leaders VS. belittling them works wonders and has created more stability with less of a toll in human lives and $$$.

Your kidding right?.. I think the UN's ineffectiveness has shown its true might.
Neither is Retreat!

The UN has been very effective in its mission. It offers a voice to all countries and has brought together leaders who would have never gotten together otherwise. It puts things on a grand and open stage, It played a great role during the cold war and even during the Cuban missile crisis. It cannot stop wars from happening, nothing and no one can. But it serves a purpose.