AAL Stock

[MetalMover]

The employee contributes nothing, and mechanics I think it's under $2 an hour contributed

The "employee" contributes nothing, and "mechanics $2 an hour?  Isn't a mechanic an employee? So it's $80 a week?

 

[WeAAsles]

What does the employee contribute?

AA will contribute 3% to your 401k even if you put nothing in yourself and presently they will match up to 5.5%. That is on all earnings including extra hours, OT and any type of special elections.

The USA average match is about 3.2%.

 

[robbedagain]

I hope that we can get that kind of thing in the JCBA  

 

[Kev3188]

Personally Robbed I would prefer a better 401k match myself.

+1

Both a large[r] employer contribution and match should be the goal.

Compared with a DB plan, the 401k translates into worker empowerment...
 
 

I've said before that I would be OK with a one time choice if someone wants to jump in to the IAMPF or receive more of a match on their 401k. Admittedly I'd more than likely chose the higher match myself though.

I'm pretty sure AS did that?

I'm also very sure I'd pick the higher match and/or contribution.

 

[WeAAsles]

+1

Both a large[r] employer contribution and match should be the goal.

Compared with a DB plan, the 401k translates into worker empowerment...
 
 

I'm pretty sure AS did that?

I'm also very sure I'd pick the higher match and/or contribution.

After all the things I've read Kev I'm just no longer enamored with the word "Pension" as I once was. It's become obvious to way to many of us that it's only a word and promises made under that word are just too easy to break.

But I am very happy that my company pension was frozen rather than thrown on the PBGC. Too many people I work with have no clue how lucky we were in that regard.

POS laws allowing for gross underfunding and shirking of responsibilities to employees have left a really bad taste in my mouth.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

once again you miss the point.

the point is about a strong industry.
 

 

no, you didn't engage in a conversation.

You engaged in a full blown assault on my character in a pathetic attempt to try to prove your point.

And your lack of the very same self-control that you claim obviously doesn't include really putting me on ignore because you couldn't possibly be replying to the issues you are if you had me on ignore.

so much for worrying about credibility when you reference things while saying I have been ignored.

Doesn't really matter whether you want to ignore me or not.

You have continually opened business discussions including on this thread about AAL's stock price and then fail to be able to discuss the very basic data that you quoted. I didn't post that DL had a larger upside on its stock price than AAL; you posted that. remember?

specific to this discussion, AAL doesn't and won't have the upside that DAL has until AA starts making a number of the major changes to the way the business is oeprated that DL did first and Parker wisely is now doing.
 

 
The problem is you don't engage in conversation.
Every topic/thread, even on non-DL boards is contaminated wtih DL this and DL that etc.
You squawk about DL DL DL DL like a parrot.
That's not conversation.
Get some self control man.
 
And please don't start to talk about credibility. 
You're the one on these boards that has been caught being 'loose' with numbers, fabricating definitions, and you've even been caught flat out lying! 
Even then you resort to being a weasel and start looking for any kinds of disclaimers / qualifying statements
Your arrogance is so astounding that you've even attempted to lecture about topics that you have no qualification(s) for.
 
Specific to this discussion, yeah, AA doesn't have an upside, ignore the recently released earnings, lets just ignore those because it doesn't fit the narrative of DL uber alles!
 
 

and I don't let those who trash my character because I speak the truth about the subjects that they want to discuss but clearly can't put all of the pieces of the puzzle together.

We aren't talking about DL. We're talking about AA and for it pursuing a plan which I said they had no choice but to pursue and which involves getting rid of alot of historic ways that AA did business - most recently cancelling a bunch of underperforming routes for the winter.

The fact that you can't stand to hear that someone actually did it and provided a template for Parker to use says far more about you than me.

I dno't need the truth filtered thru lenses to make it palatable for me to be able to hear.

 
This is rich coming from the person who writes more dislaimers, qualifying statements and fine print than all posters on here combined!
You don't speak the truth.
You're the only one talking about DL on every airline thread.
You're almost at the point where you're going to end up talking to yourself (and spectator).

 

[blue collar]

The employee contributes nothing, and mechanics I think it's under $2 an hour contributed

The employee certainly does contribute. That $2/hr they contribute to the IAMNPF is coming out of their compensation- I'm sure it could have been negotiated into an hourly pay increase. They just don't see any of that money deducted from their check.

 

[700UW]

The "employee" contributes nothing, and "mechanics $2 an hour?  Isn't a mechanic an employee? So it's $80 a week?

What dont you get about it?

The company pays the IAMNPF, not the employee, there is no deduction taken out of anyone's paycheck, be it Mechanic and Related, Maintenance Trainers or Fleet Service

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Compared with a DB plan, the 401k translates into worker empowerment...

I agree.

 

[WorldTraveler]

frugal,
I think someone might take offense to me being called a weasle - and rightly so. It is their username and not mine.

The mere fact that you write that AA has no upside and then say how many disqualifiers I put in threads shows why these threads get so heated and why it is impossible to talk about anything business related without so many people getting defensive about what I say.

Absolutely nowhere did I ever say that AAL had no upside. Find a quote if you believe I did.

My first response regarding upside came in noting that DAL stock has more upside than AAL.

If weAAsles didn't want to have a comparison to other stocks in the industry, he should have removed all references to all other airlines in the quote he posted.

Why do you think that the writer of the article had comparisons to other airlines? because AA is part of an industry and investors DO compare the performance of various players in the industry.

What so many people here, including LDV and others who have gravitated from other aviation chat sites in order to try to shut me up here, is that I was dead right almost ten years ago when I started posting that AA didn't do enough in their 2003 restructuring in order to avoid BK - which is exactly where they ended up.

Despite the fact that DL and NW were the last of the original big six of the industry (as of 9/11) to restructure, both executed the most successful restructurings and merger in the airline industry to date and have had 8 years post merger in order to build their network.

I truly have no idea why some AA people have such a hard time admitting that a company that had a 7 year headstart on emergence from BK and a merger WILL have an advantage over a company that just emerged and merged but that is a very clear and obvious fact.

Further, the AA winter Europe schedule announcement this week highlights exactly what DL has done for years and learned from the Pan Am purchase and that is that there are a number of routes that can be profitably operated on a seasonal basis but which have to be pulled in the off-peak months unless a carrier wants to lose large amounts of money.

I am happy for all of AA's stakeholders that they are making adjustments to their network in order to increase their profitability on a year round basis. no one loses when companies do what is necessary to maximize revenues.

but Parker and co. now have a European network large enough that they can add alot of service during the peak season and then pull it down in the winter and still have a decent-sized presence.

Even the increased pension funding which I noted was a great move was something that DL chose to do early on post merger.

Feel free to let me know what parts of AA's strategy that are unique to AA but most of the things that Parker and co. are now doing came from other airlines who have been successful.

If it hurts you (collectively) to admit that AA is not the first to do those things and that those strategies were used successfully by someone else, then don't talk about those strategies, including the value of stock which is absolutely related to the strategies the company uses.

I WANT a strong and healthy AA. I have said that many, many times. I am happy that AA is turning things around. I have said that many, many times.

I absolutely believe that AA has a bright future and will succeed - but its success will be measured against other carriers in the industry just as the article weAAsles noted.


As to the 401k question, I have noted many times that a 401k provides more control and security for employees than a defined benefit pension plan. It is great that AA employees did not have their plans terminated - again it was DL and NW who pushed to not have to terminate their plans so the value of their new stock would not be diluted by claims to the PBGC which was only too happy not to have the pensions of the rest of the industry dumped. changes to the laws to allow airlines with frozen pensions to pay for longer periods of time worked. Again, AA as the last legacy airline to restructure is benefitting from those who went before.

And AA employees like those at DL and NW are also finding that defined contribution pensions can often provide greater benefits than can a defined benefit plan in which the company contributes very small amounts in comparison in order to mitigate the risk of having an exorbitant liability should the market fail to perform as well in the future as it is now.

And Kev is right. An employee can control his/her investments in a 401k in order to be as aggressive or not as they wish.

And removing as much of the pension liability from a company's books as well as flying a network that is profitable on a year round basis are exactly what AA will be doing in order to push its stock price as high as possible.

And I have absolutely no problems if AA is wildly successful and surpasses other airlines in the industry in terms of profitability.

every strong player in the industry is good for the industry as a whole.

 

[MetalMover]

What dont you get about it?
The company pays the IAMNPF, not the employee, there is no deduction taken out of anyone's paycheck, be it Mechanic and Related, Maintenance Trainers or Fleet Service
 

Here's what I don't get about it.....Is the company contribution of $2 an hour PART of the worker's hourly salary. Is the worker  making ,say, $36 an hour as opposed to $38...for example? using the $2.
Forgive me if I'm slow here, but US went BK, terminated its pensions, then decided to kick in to the IAMNPF. It just sounds to me like the $2 is still coming from the workers pockets. That's all.
If I'm wrong, I stand corrected. One other question, what is the formula when the member retirees ad collects? 
 
Now, having said this, what happens to JCBA if the alliance survives a vote? I guess the IAM members will keep the pension and the TWU members will keep their frozen pension.
 Oh Boy! What an alliance it shall be!

 

[eolesen]

It just sounds to me like the $2 is still coming from the workers pockets.

Perhaps more correctly, it's $2 which isn't going into the worker's pockets...

 

[MetalMover]

Perhaps more correctly, it's $2 which isn't going into the worker's pockets...

Exactly my point. I find it hard to believe that US is contributing on workers' behalf AFTER terminating their pensions being the sole contributor.

 

[WeAAsles]

What dont you get about it?
The company pays the IAMNPF, not the employee, there is no deduction taken out of anyone's paycheck, be it Mechanic and Related, Maintenance Trainers or Fleet Service

700 every part of an employees "compensation package" adds to the overall value to the member. Direct pay or wages is only a component of that package. Take Medical as an example. If I pay 20% of the cost of my medical plan and that's $100.00 for me, then the company is paying an additional $400.00. I don't see that $400.00 though because the company is making a direct payment to my monthly bill. If I option not to utilize my medical benefit though I no longer contribute the $100.00 but the company currently does not reimburse me the $400.00 savings. They keep that money.

It's the same thing in regards to retirement compensation. The company contributes $2.00 per hour to the IAMPF. That $2.00 if it were not being contributed could possibly equate to an extra $2.00 per hour in direct pay to the member to do with as he or she pleases. Some members IMO need to be forced to contribute to a retirement option where myself am able to do so without anyone's assistance.

My 401k the company automatically contributes 3% of ALL my wages (hours worked) into. It will match up to 5.5%. I CHOOSE to put in 20% so am basically putting in 25.5% of ALL my wages into the market for my personal benefit. Now if I contributed nothing it would be he company who benefits as they would get to keep 2.5% of pay that I should be entitled to.  

 

[WeAAsles]

Here's what I don't get about it.....Is the company contribution of $2 an hour PART of the worker's hourly salary. Is the worker  making ,say, $36 an hour as opposed to $38...for example? using the $2.
Forgive me if I'm slow here, but US went BK, terminated its pensions, then decided to kick in to the IAMNPF. It just sounds to me like the $2 is still coming from the workers pockets. That's all.
If I'm wrong, I stand corrected. One other question, what is the formula when the member retirees ad collects? 
 
Now, having said this, what happens to JCBA if the alliance survives a vote? I guess the IAM members will keep the pension and the TWU members will keep their frozen pension.
 Oh Boy! What an alliance it shall be!

I have been told that we (TWU) will not be forced into the IAMPF but it may be made available as an option if you want it. If that occurs more than likely it would be at a cost somewhere else in your retirement options? Say no more match to your 401k. Some people are enamored with the word Pension and may feel that is something they would feel more comfortable being a part of? The IAM members I very much doubt will be given the option to convert to a 401k match against the pension? A multiemployer pension has to have and hopefully gain participants to continue the promised payouts. 

Our pension will more than likely never (And hopefully not) be unfrozen. The reason why I say that is because there are too many laws that assist a company in not having to keep that pension fully funded. And as we should all have been made aware ours was almost thrust on the PBGC due to that underfunding. Had that happened we would have not received our full vested payments when we went to collect. Ask others in our industry who are now at the mercy of the PBGC how much of their pensions were lost and it's quite an eye opener and quite sad.