AAA ALPA Thread 9-21 to 9-27

[aquagreen73s]

Besides, USAir will sit out the next round of consolidation if they get caught in years of litigation.

You are very correct and that is exactly why the sham of the last four months is about to be cut off. Doug appears to want nothing more than consolidation and to date, he and Glen are the only ones who are openly advocating it. THere's not a chance in heII that Doug will let a few malcontnets derail his plan. The silver lining to all this utter waste of time, money and energy is that perhaps National has been forced to recognize the problems in the East MEC and henceforth will not just pretend that it's not their problem. It's every ALPA pilot's problem, especially for the majority of East pilots who themselves are reasonable people and who just want to take back their union. They don't want to protracted fight against AWA pilots and they don't want to thumb their noses at the rest of the piloting profession just because an arbitraiton didn't turn out the way the morons in Council 41 insisted it would. For years they have languished under the insanity of Council 41 et. al. For the sake of the profession and for the sake of the union, Prater had best fix what's wrong in the East MEC.

 

[ClueByFour]

AWA320

You already have an agency shop under ALPA.

When the vote comes for USAPA it will be the very same agency shop.

Go ahead and sue (cry, fuss, scream like a little girl) or do what ever you want to do since the law is on the side of USAPA. You will be billed dues and assessments.

Don't worry we in good standing will take care of you while your in bad standing or getting fired.

Meanwhile, you inherit all of the contracts and agreements between the company and ALPA. This includes, but is not limited to:

1. The transition agreement, which states that the seniority integration will be done by ALPA merger policy. Oops.

2. I believe (don't have a copy handy) that it also calls for mandatory ratification of both pilot groups. That allows the West guys to sit on it forever and leave you with LOA 93. Turnabout, after all, is fair play.

3. I hear (ancillary thing) that there is some pretty big pressure to get the extra cards needed to file with the NMB, since I'm told a whole slew of those cards came from people on the furlough list, who won't be on said list in as little as two weeks.

4. I also hear that there is no single bargaining unit ruling yet. Wow, would that suck for East.
I want to sell the average East pilot who thinks they will get DOH/LOS real estate that spans some water.....

 

[ClueByFour]

767jetz,

A pre-nup will not part of USAPA merger policy, thus, this could be a problem if US Airways attempts to acquire United again.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Yeah. They will impose ALPA on you guys after the staple job and/or arbitration.

And when that happens, the West guys will have a really good chance of getting Nicolau (assuming that has not happened at that point).

This kind of thinking is what got you into the current mess East finds itself in.

 

[700UW]

The ALPA constitution and by-laws states members must be allowed to vote on anything that would affect pilot pay and benefits.
Regards,
USA320Pilot

Did I miss the day when you voted to give your pension away?

Oh wait, the MEC did not let you vote!

 

[electricjet98]

Click here to read an article published today in the USA Today about US Airways pilots.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

An excerpt from the referenced article:
"According to National Mediation Board guidelines, a majority of a union's members must agree to authorize the federal agency to take action. The NMB typically conducts an investigation to ensure that the request for a vote on new representatives is valid. The agency will then supervise an election."

This could get interesting and rack-up some additional attorney fees. Will the NMB even consider granting an election if the investigation reveals that the drive is a sham? Simply one group's desire to negate an award that was the result of an agreed to process.

 

[BottomFeeder]

You are very correct and that is exactly why the sham of the last four months is about to be cut off. Doug appears to want nothing more than consolidation and to date, he and Glen are the only ones who are openly advocating it. THere's not a chance in heII that Doug will let a few malcontnets derail his plan. The silver lining to all this utter waste of time, money and energy is that perhaps National has been forced to recognize the problems in the East MEC and henceforth will not just pretend that it's not their problem. It's every ALPA pilot's problem, especially for the majority of East pilots who themselves are reasonable people and who just want to take back their union. They don't want to protracted fight against AWA pilots and they don't want to thumb their noses at the rest of the piloting profession just because an arbitraiton didn't turn out the way the morons in Council 41 insisted it would. For years they have languished under the insanity of Council 41 et. al. For the sake of the profession and for the sake of the union, Prater had best fix what's wrong in the East MEC.

What a joke. If you were so right then the Reps of council 41 would have been recalled. They have not and in fact the pilot group supports them.

ALPA National is the problem and it will be taken care by USAPA shortly.

Bye Bye ALPA

 

[AWA320]

What a joke. If you were so right then the Reps of council 41 would have been recalled. They have not and in fact the pilot group supports them.

ALPA National is the problem and it will be taken care by USAPA shortly.

Bye Bye ALPA

Long live the pickel ball association

 

[electricjet98]

Electricjet,

My reference through an LEC Rep. is Mike Abram; however, it is likely a moot point because USAPA will most likely be the bargaining agent before a TA could ever be passed to the East pilot group.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Of course, if the AAA MEC is put into trusteeship by ALPA National and National then becomes your "representative" or "acting MEC"...

From Admin. Manual, Section 40-Collective Bargaining, Part 3:

D. RATIFICATION
SOURCE - Board 1982; AMENDED - Executive Board May 1995
The conclusion of an agreement shall, at the discretion of the individual Master Executive Council, be subject to MEC or membership ratification.

AWA320, any comments from your "sources"?

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

AWA320 said: "The real killer will be when the company dumps that furlough list in two weeks thereby wiping out the vast majoirty of what ever cards they've collected. More wasted time while management reeps the benefits."

USA320Pilot comments: How would you know? Have you seen the list? USAPA has a mster list of who has turned in a card and who has not. When the last recall class occurs in early October USAPA will know whose card is valid and whose is invalid because they will now know exactly who is elgible.

This is very signficant because it will provide the exact number of cards required to have the NMB order and election. So...I guarantee you Piedmont1984's comments are dead-on accurate.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing you can do to get a joint contract ratified by the East and prevent a USAPA election.

I sense that you are really squirming and have that desperation feeling, which must be tough on you. By the way, are you going to be a new US Airways USAPA represented pilot who pays part of their dues and is in bad standing or are you going to be good standing by fully paying your dues so you can vote?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

Electric,

From Admin. Manual, Section 40-Collective Bargaining, Part 3:

D. RATIFICATION

SOURCE - Board 1982; AMENDED - Executive Board May 1995
The conclusion of an agreement shall, at the discretion of the individual Master Executive Council, be subject to MEC or membership ratification.

Electric said: "Of course, if the AAA MEC is put into trusteeship by ALPA National and National then becomes your "representative" or "acting MEC"..."

USA320Pilot asks: Again, according to Mike Abram, ALAP's outside Council from Cowen, Weiss, and Simon, if the MEC is removed from the leadership position the rank-and-file has to vote on any TA. And, Mike Abram was on the East MEC conference call last Friday and he told the MEC that there must be membership ratification.

But, do not be surpirsed at some point in the future that the East MEC sends the JNC members back into negotiations and nothing is agreed upon.

Meanwhile, USAPA gets stronger and stronger.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Tiger 1050]

USA320Pilot asks: Again, according to Mike Abram, ALAP's outside Council from Cowen, Weiss, and Simon, if the MEC is removed from the leadership position the rank-and-file has to vote on any TA. And, Mike Abram was on the East MEC conference call last Friday and he told the MEC that there must be membership ratification.



Regards,

USA320Pilot

Even if his interpretation is correct you still must wonder IF the membership is as united as you claim. More often than not I hear East pilots say the fight is over and they want a contract...

 

[Phoenix]

Even if his interpretation is correct you still must wonder IF the membership is as united as you claim. More often than not I hear East pilots say the fight is over and they want a contract...

In survival training we would pet the rabbit to calm him right before we broke his neck, so the muscles would be tender.

 

[Bear96]

An excerpt from the referenced article:
"According to National Mediation Board guidelines, a majority of a union's members must agree to authorize the federal agency to take action. The NMB typically conducts an investigation to ensure that the request for a vote on new representatives is valid. The agency will then supervise an election."

This could get interesting and rack-up some additional attorney fees. Will the NMB even consider granting an election if the investigation reveals that the drive is a sham? Simply one group's desire to negate an award that was the result of an agreed to process.

I doubt that would make it "invalid" or a "sham" for NMB election purposes.

Certainly, if enough East pilots want to try to change unions, they have the right to try to do so. It doesn't matter what their motivations for wanting the change are, as long as they follow NMB procedures to achieve the change.

Whether they can drag West along with them is another question, since the NMB has not found single carrier status with East and West (to my knowledge). But East is free to find new representation if they are no longer happy with ALPA. A little competition and some more membership involvement might be good for the union biz.

(Of course, changing unions won't make the Nic award go away, but that's a different topic.)

 

[TheLarkAscending]

......if US Airways attempts to acquire United again.

:wacko: At least this track record remains untarnished, thus far: :wacko: remains a constant source of amusement.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

AWA320 said: "The real killer will be when the company dumps that furlough list in two weeks thereby wiping out the vast majoirty of what ever cards they've collected. More wasted time while management reeps the benefits."

USA320Pilot comments: How would you know? Have you seen the list? USAPA has a mster list of who has turned in a card and who has not. When the last recall class occurs in early October USAPA will know whose card is valid and whose is invalid because they will now know exactly who is elgible.

This is very signficant because it will provide the exact number of cards required to have the NMB order and election. So...I guarantee you Piedmont1984's comments are dead-on accurate.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing you can do to get a joint contract ratified by the East and prevent a USAPA election.

I sense that you are really squirming and have that desperation feeling, which must be tough on you. By the way, are you going to be a new US Airways USAPA represented pilot who pays part of their dues and is in bad standing or are you going to be good standing by fully paying your dues so you can vote?

Regards

USA320Pilot

Yup I'm really really worried now I along with over 1800 others would be the third type non dues paying partial or otherwise who files suit the same day uncaring about standing good or bad!!!

Face it USAPA like DOH is DOA